The Official Scottish Football Thread

[simoid]

Barga said:

Well done if they are because other clubs would hide behind liquidation when it suits of course!

Aye very good. I wouldn’t think liquidation would be out of the question for Celtic if worst comes to the worst.

There must be an awful lot of poor souls out there as generally with these cases it’s only the tip of the iceberg that ends up in court. It’s really mind boggling when you begin to think of how many kids passed through these beasts’ care and were at risk throughout our clubs.

[Strocky]

And we're back to the point scoring (no thought to the victims) despite the fact that it's not just limited to one club or institution but an evil that permeated every bit of Scottish society over the decades

The only positive thing coming out of it now is that some of these bds are finally facing justice

[Edinburger]

technodup said:

Hibs coach can't satisfy his wife. Shagging polis in car parks.

Scotland's shame.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7106667/W...

Ha! very good.

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Barga said:

Well done if they are because other clubs would hide behind liquidation when it suits of course!

Aye very good. I wouldn’t think liquidation would be out of the question for Celtic if worst comes to the worst.

There must be an awful lot of poor souls out there as generally with these cases it’s only the tip of the iceberg that ends up in court. It’s really mind boggling when you begin to think of how many kids passed through these beasts’ care and were at risk throughout our clubs.

I really don't think paedophile football coaches preying on influential youngsters is an area anyone should use for bragging rights.

However, I do think the fact that Rangers (in their current guise) telling a victim of abuse to pursue it through the liquidators is particularly distasteful.

[Edinburger]

Strocky said:

And we're back to the point scoring (no thought to the victims) despite the fact that it's not just limited to one club or institution but an evil that permeated every bit of Scottish society over the decades

The only positive thing coming out of it now is that some of these bds are finally facing justice

Exactly.

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

I really don't think paedophile football coaches preying on influential youngsters is an area anyone should use for bragging rights.

However, I do think the fact that Rangers (in their current guise) telling a victim of abuse to pursue it through the liquidators is particularly distasteful.

Have any clubs paid out compensation to victims? It would open floodgates if a precedent was set. Legal/financial responsibility definitely seem quite separate from moral fortitude in these cases.

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

I really don't think paedophile football coaches preying on influential youngsters is an area anyone should use for bragging rights.

However, I do think the fact that Rangers (in their current guise) telling a victim of abuse to pursue it through the liquidators is particularly distasteful.

Have any clubs paid out compensation to victims? It would open floodgates if a precedent was set. Legal/financial responsibility definitely seem quite separate from moral fortitude in these cases.

I don't know whether any clubs have paid compensation or not, but there will definitely be an entitlement to financial recompense.

But you must see the issue with 'Rangers' - we'll keep the good stuff from oldco such as league titles and cups, but all that bad stuff such as paedophile coaches is nothing to do with us...

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

I don't know whether any clubs have paid compensation or not, but there will definitely be an entitlement to financial recompense.

Can clubs really be expected to front up for compensation for the actions of a rogue coach in the days of less stringent child protection? I haven’t a clue where the duty of care extends. I suppose if clubs were warned and failed to investigate fully and effectively, or if it was an ongoing issue with a variety of coaches verging on a culture, that would be an issue.

I won’t respond to your second paragraph as I don’t wish to get involved in any point scoring or bragging about any particular club.

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

I don't know whether any clubs have paid compensation or not, but there will definitely be an entitlement to financial recompense.

Can clubs really be expected to front up for compensation for the actions of a rogue coach in the days of less stringent child protection? I haven’t a clue where the duty of care extends. I suppose if clubs were warned and failed to investigate fully and effectively, or if it was an ongoing issue with a variety of coaches verging on a culture, that would be an issue.

I won’t respond to your second paragraph as I don’t wish to get involved in any point scoring or bragging about any particular club.

I'm sure a judge will make a decision on the first point.

On the second, I wasn't mentioning that for bragging rights. Far from it. But surely you see the issue?

[Barga]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

I don't know whether any clubs have paid compensation or not, but there will definitely be an entitlement to financial recompense.

Can clubs really be expected to front up for compensation for the actions of a rogue coach in the days of less stringent child protection? I haven’t a clue where the duty of care extends. I suppose if clubs were warned and failed to investigate fully and effectively, or if it was an ongoing issue with a variety of coaches verging on a culture, that would be an issue.

I won’t respond to your second paragraph as I don’t wish to get involved in any point scoring or bragging about any particular club.

Ironic post of the year!

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

I'm sure a judge will make a decision on the first point.

On the second, I wasn't mentioning that for bragging rights. Far from it. But surely you see the issue?

In general terms, I don’t know if a club/company is liable for a rogue employee in this sort of situation.

All the clubs will naturally want to keep their hands and reputations clean and deflect elsewhere, even if they know they should probably front up. Any weakness or admission of liability would have every lawyer from here to Neptune trying to find victims.

[Strocky]

Man City are offering compensation

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/03/12/ma...

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

I'm sure a judge will make a decision on the first point.

On the second, I wasn't mentioning that for bragging rights. Far from it. But surely you see the issue?

In general terms, I don’t know if a club/company is liable for a rogue employee in this sort of situation.

All the clubs will naturally want to keep their hands and reputations clean and deflect elsewhere, even if they know they should probably front up. Any weakness or admission of liability would have every lawyer from here to Neptune trying to find victims.

You surely don't believe that, do you?

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

You surely don't believe that, do you?

Believe what?

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

You surely don't believe that, do you?

Believe what?

You surely don't believe this:

simoid said:

In general terms, I don’t know if a club/company is liable for a rogue employee in this sort of situation.

All the clubs will naturally want to keep their hands and reputations clean and deflect elsewhere, even if they know they should probably front up. Any weakness or admission of liability would have every lawyer from here to Neptune trying to find victims.

Put it this way - if an employee at your bank stole £1,000 from your bank account would you expect the bank to be liable and to refund what was stolen? If your boiler was being serviced by British Gas and their engineer broke your window would you expect British Gas to be liable and pay for a new window?

So if wee Jimmy goes to a football academy and is abused by his coach, why wouldn't the club be liable for compensation?

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

Put it this way - if an employee at your bank stole £1,000 from your bank account would you expect the bank to be liable and to refund what was stolen? If your boiler was being serviced by British Gas and their engineer broke your window would you expect British Gas to be liable and pay for a new window?

So if wee Jimmy goes to a football academy and is abused by his coach, why wouldn't the club be liable for compensation?

As I’ve said I don’t know.

In the first two instances wouldn’t they be insured? So they wouldn’t be overly fussed

If football academy could show they took as much care as they could to ensure children didn’t fall victim I would think they might be able to weasel out of liability. IANAL obviously.

[DocJock]

Most leagues insist their coaches have done the relevant Child Protection courses. I don't see how they can be responsible beyond that unless they ignore concerns expressed about a coach.

As an aside, the fking nonces are the reason for pretty strict rules, such as an adult must be accompanied and not left alone with a child. Also some ridiculous ones such as not being able to apply a plaster to a cut, but having to give it to the kid to apply themselves, and not being able to sppnge a cut clean before dressing ( again, kid has to do it.

The one which nearly made me quit coaching my lad's side was when I was reprimanded for 'inappropriate contact' with one of the lads. My crime? One of the boys broke his ankle, and rather than wait ages for a stretcher to be found I picked him up and carried him to the side of the pitch.

[simoid]

Strocky said:

Man City are offering compensation

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/03/12/ma...

Good to know.

[Edinburger]

DocJock said:

Most leagues insist their coaches have done the relevant Child Protection courses. I don't see how they can be responsible beyond that unless they ignore concerns expressed about a coach.

As an aside, the fking nonces are the reason for pretty strict rules, such as an adult must be accompanied and not left alone with a child. Also some ridiculous ones such as not being able to apply a plaster to a cut, but having to give it to the kid to apply themselves, and not being able to sppnge a cut clean before dressing ( again, kid has to do it.

The one which nearly made me quit coaching my lad's side was when I was reprimanded for 'inappropriate contact' with one of the lads. My crime? One of the boys broke his ankle, and rather than wait ages for a stretcher to be found I picked him up and carried him to the side of the pitch.

The SYFA insist grassroots coaches do a Child Protection CBT and also all coaches need to be PVG'd before they can coach (I coach two kids teams) but neither of those measures prevent a paedophile coaching - unless he has been caught! The CBT is a good idea but anyone can pass it.

In the case of sports first aid, in the leagues I've been involved in (ESSDA & FSSDA) and academies I've been involved in, coaches are absolutely allowed to apply plasters! That's just ridiculous if they're not..

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

Put it this way - if an employee at your bank stole £1,000 from your bank account would you expect the bank to be liable and to refund what was stolen? If your boiler was being serviced by British Gas and their engineer broke your window would you expect British Gas to be liable and pay for a new window?

So if wee Jimmy goes to a football academy and is abused by his coach, why wouldn't the club be liable for compensation?

As I’ve said I don’t know.

In the first two instances wouldn’t they be insured? So they wouldn’t be overly fussed

If football academy could show they took as much care as they could to ensure children didn’t fall victim I would think they might be able to weasel out of liability. IANAL obviously.

Strange answer.