The Official Scottish Football Thread

[simoid]

scoopdydoo said:

dalzo said:

I’m assuming those who “heard” it will now admit they are wrong

In the world of law, no criminality doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but the average Joe Bloggs on the street will take it to mean that.
I’m am entirely not surprised it’s not going any further. Difficult to identify who is singing it amongst them. Although I would think the goalkeeper with his middle finger raised at the appropriate moment is sleeping slightly easier tonight.

Is it correct to say that alleged criminality was established in the Salmond case, evidence was gathered, and the Crown thought there was a reasonable prospect of prosecution by presenting that evidence to a jury.

In this instance, the police cannot find any evidence of criminality despite video evidence. That would suggest to me that no crime occurred.

[Driver101]

simoid said:

scoopdydoo said:

dalzo said:

I’m assuming those who “heard” it will now admit they are wrong

In the world of law, no criminality doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but the average Joe Bloggs on the street will take it to mean that.
I’m am entirely not surprised it’s not going any further. Difficult to identify who is singing it amongst them. Although I would think the goalkeeper with his middle finger raised at the appropriate moment is sleeping slightly easier tonight.

Is it correct to say that alleged criminality was established in the Salmond case, evidence was gathered, and the Crown thought there was a reasonable prospect of prosecution by presenting that evidence to a jury.

In this instance, the police cannot find any evidence of criminality despite video evidence. That would suggest to me that no crime occurred.

Kudela hasn't been charged even though there is video evidence. People are convinced by the video what they seen and what was said, but that isn't sufficient evidence to charge him. By your own logic you'd have to say no crime took place there.

The police had to clarify this case better. They had to conclude the phrase wasn't chanted or the video content was edited. Saying criminality hadn't been established doesn't do either. A better explanation is required.

[simoid]

Driver101 said:

Kudela hasn't been charged even though there is video evidence. People are convinced by the video what they seen and what was said, but that isn't sufficient evidence to charge him. By your own logic you'd have to say no crime took place there.

The police had to clarify this case better. They had to conclude the phrase wasn't chanted or the video content was edited. Saying criminality hadn't been established doesn't do either. A better explanation is required.

Kudela: people think a crime occurred, this is reported to the police, the police gathered evidence and report this to the procurator fiscal. IE the police believe they have established criminality.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-uefa-kud...

Sweet Caroline: no criminality.

[hongkongdonkey]

Celtic fans refused to accept Kudela said anything racist because of a lack of evidence but want players charged it sacked for having a finger in the air. I doubt many of the concerns are genuine and are simply a vehicle to attack rangers and their fans.

[Driver101]

simoid said:

Kudela: people think a crime occurred, this is reported to the police, the police gathered evidence and report this to the procurator fiscal. IE the police believe they have established criminality.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-uefa-kud...

Sweet Caroline: no criminality.

I'm trying to understand the logic here. You're concluding there is more firm evidence in one case than the other because a newspaper reported the police are looking to charge Kudela, but actually haven't?

It's over two months since the game and over five weeks since that news article predicted the possibility of Kudela being charged and it still hasn't happened. It doesn't look as if he's getting charged.

The logic of using police establishing enough evidence to put a case forward to the PF as proof of a crime, guilt or innocence is very flawed.

The police have to clarify that the video didn't contain the offensive chant, or the video where people heard it was indeed fake.

Why are people pretending to be so shocked at the possibility the phrase was chanted? It is a very commonly used phrase and known to be edited into that song. It would hardly be a surprise.

[Driver101]

Anyways, cup final on now. Hopefully it's a good game and the best team wins. It's a shame for St Johnstone with their build up.

Steven Thompson just isn't a host. He's fine as a pundit, but he isn't up to hosting.

[simoid]

Driver101 said:

simoid said:

Kudela: people think a crime occurred, this is reported to the police, the police gathered evidence and report this to the procurator fiscal. IE the police believe they have established criminality.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-uefa-kud...

Sweet Caroline: no criminality.

I'm trying to understand the logic here. You're concluding there is more firm evidence in one case than the other because a newspaper reported the police are looking to charge Kudela, but actually haven't?

It's over two months since the game and over five weeks since that news article predicted the possibility of Kudela being charged and it still hasn't happened. It doesn't look as if he's getting charged.

The logic of using police establishing enough evidence to put a case forward to the PF as proof of a crime, guilt or innocence is very flawed.

The police have to clarify that the video didn't contain the offensive chant, or the video where people heard it was indeed fake.

Why are people pretending to be so shocked at the possibility the phrase was chanted? It is a very commonly used phrase and known to be edited into that song. It would hardly be a surprise.

I’m not saying investigation = guilt but nice straw man attempt.

The Sweet Caroline nonsense hasn’t even got to first base of an investigation. It took the police a few days to investigate say no criminality could be established. I’m sure our police have better things to do than explain why they’re not taking further action.

In contrast, Kudela has been found guilty and given a ban by the governing body and the Procurator Fiscal confirmed the case was under consideration 3 1/2 weeks ago (I’ve no idea how long these things can take).

To compare the two is ludicrous.

Did you see the video with the whole chorus?

[Driver101]

Well taken goal.

Got to credit Booth for winning two crunching tackles.

[simoid]

Newell has been in the mood all game, with and without the ball.

[Driver101]

A bit of drama now.

Poor penalty, but good double save.

[DocJock]

Good stuff from Macey, bu by God, Hibs are lethargic.

[Driver101]

Boyle not helping his reputation. Clear dive.

Why didn't the ref book him?

[DocJock]

Dunno. It was pretty blatant.

You watch this and realise why only Celtic or Rangers win the league. This pair would struggle in League One down here.

[Driver101]

He was booked. I missed that. It's something that needs stamped out of his game as it's a regular occurrence from him.

It wasn't the best of games, but that won't matter to St Johnstone. They deserved to win. Better team with the best chances. St Johnstone winning the double is remarkable. It will never happen again in our lifetime. It's a shame fans haven't been able to see it.

Hibs lacked any ideas and didn't look up for it. They didn't have the pace and movement normally seen.


The BBC production and presentation has been awful. Look at the difference with the English final last week. Lineker and Co. are engaging, knowledgeable and having fun. Thompson fumbles and struggles to hold it together. So many awkward pauses and the panel haven't shown any excitement. The build up was dull too.

[DuncsGTi]

Well done St Johnstone, a cup double is an absolutely fantastic result and very well deserved.

[Driver101]

simoid said:

I’m not saying investigation = guilt but nice straw man attempt.

The Sweet Caroline nonsense hasn’t even got to first base of an investigation. It took the police a few days to investigate say no criminality could be established. I’m sure our police have better things to do than explain why they’re not taking further action.

In contrast, Kudela has been found guilty and given a ban by the governing body and the Procurator Fiscal confirmed the case was under consideration 3 1/2 weeks ago (I’ve no idea how long these things can take).

To compare the two is ludicrous.

Did you see the video with the whole chorus?

The fact many people were convinced that they heard it and Rangers' defence was the video was faked, it is fair to assume that people did indeed hear the chant because it was in videos circulating.

It would be common sense to clarify that. It's really no effort to add something so simple into a statement. The ambiguous response has left questions unanswered. People didn't think the videos were doctored as two camera angles and they heard the same thing.

I seen two videos longer than the one that was posted on here. I thought that looked dodgy as that cut the clip in half and missed the specific point where people have heard the chant.

It's not ludicrous at all. There is lots of crimes that are committed and the evidence isn't sufficient to proceed to criminal charges. That doesn't mean a crime hasn't taken place.

[simoid]

I’m quite sure people will have heard what they wanted/told their brain to hear. If you tell yourself it’s F t P you’ll hear it. If you want to hear “Bu-ffa-lo” you’ll hear that too.

It’s just noise and clearly that’s why the police have said no evidence of criminality, and the Rangers statement has said it’s not a genuine video (presumably someone at Rangers listened and was expecting sectarianism so their brain filled it in too).

The most likely scenario is usually correct. If you think that the most likely scenario is that professional football players broadcast themselves singing sectarian songs and the police are happy to let them off, then we’ll be agreeing to disagree. Thank you and good night on this issue

[Anonymous-poster]

simoid said:

I’m quite sure people will have heard what they wanted/told their brain to hear. If you tell yourself it’s F t P you’ll hear it. If you want to hear “Bu-ffa-lo” you’ll hear that too.

It’s just noise and clearly that’s why the police have said no evidence of criminality, and the Rangers statement has said it’s not a genuine video (presumably someone at Rangers listened and was expecting sectarianism so their brain filled it in too).

The most likely scenario is usually correct. If you think that the most likely scenario is that professional football players broadcast themselves singing sectarian songs and the police are happy to let them off, then we’ll be agreeing to disagree. Thank you and good night on this issue

A bit like the Racism case that has had no criminal charges brought against either player?

[Driver101]

simoid said:

I’m quite sure people will have heard what they wanted/told their brain to hear. If you tell yourself it’s F t P you’ll hear it. If you want to hear “Bu-ffa-lo” you’ll hear that too.

It’s just noise and clearly that’s why the police have said no evidence of criminality, and the Rangers statement has said it’s not a genuine video (presumably someone at Rangers listened and was expecting sectarianism so their brain filled it in too).

The most likely scenario is usually correct. If you think that the most likely scenario is that professional football players broadcast themselves singing sectarian songs and the police are happy to let them off, then we’ll be agreeing to disagree. Thank you and good night on this issue

Rangers put out a public statement dismissing the content of the video saying it wasn't genuine. Rangers were clear and everyone understood what they said. It was covered on here too. Now you're offering your own unfounded twist to what you think really happened. You don't need me to point out how daft that is.

If the videos circulating haven't been faked, then it doesn't look good on Rangers making false allegations to dismiss the videos.

The footage looks like it was recorded and shared without the knowledge of the players involved. I also read it was streamed live. It wasn't shared with the knowledge of the content.

The police regularly turn a blind eye to sectarianism. On Saturday after many of the songs being sung the police issued a statement saying that events had been peaceful at that time. No effort was made to stop the singing or arresting those involved.

It was always going to be near impossible to establish who said it if it was said. All players have their back to the camera. It would be very hard to establish where it happened.

I stand by my opinion. A better statement from the police would clear this up a whole lot better.

[JuniorD]

Don’t know who Hibs number 6 is but I was delighted to see that his attempt to boot the ball as hard as possible at the St Johnstone player on the ground resulted in a goal against his team.