Kids Grassroots Football - The good stuff!
Discussion
E36GUY said:
Just finished the L1 course. Very interesting. Looking forward to getting stuck in with the team!
Well done. I did the old level 1 which was completely different. The new one is much better at teaching you to coach. Have you seen the Foundation Phase DNA Stuff on Hive? It's well worth a look. I firmly believe that anyone involved in coaching grassroots football should have to do the new Level 1.
I've just done Block 1 of Level 2. Which I found really interesting. Lots more detail in terms of player development/motivation/ self-esteem and coaching styles. I would highly recommend doing it if you have the time.
If you don't agree with the manager then you only really have a couple of choices. One, be specific, give them feedback on what is working well, and what isn't working - try to bring facts. Football is passion and emotion for lots of people.
Or in the end if the style doesn't work, you need to either become the manager or quit.
I posted this recently.. might help. See if you can go on a course together !
The FA website has lots of videos and an app
http://www.thefa.com/get-involved/coach/coachs-app
They also have videos on you tube of most of the sessions, so examples of skills you can get the group to try
Key things
1. Don't worry too much about positions.
2. Focus on making the skills element fun
3. Don't criticize, encourage (for example never say - ooh unlucky - say great effort, good try.)
4. Rotate everyone into every position, equal pitch time
5. Always involve everyone in sessions, no one doing nothing and focus on number of touches on the ball.
So for example if you have an attack (5) vs defence (2) leave a way for the defence to 'win" eg if they pass the ball through two cones or keep possesion for 5 passes. You will be surprised how simple things like that engage the group and make it competitive
Overall, train the way you intend to play, make every skills activity as close to a match as possible
Also if you aren't familiar with these, its a great place to start
https://www.livestrong.com/article/502479-the-five...
Glassman said:
What happens when you don't agree with the manager's choices and decisions?
I would imagine that's very difficult, if that's your view from the outset. Are you joining to try and alter his style and tactics?I was in the same position - not agreeing with the way the manager ran the team, so I offered to take over and completely removed him from duties. All worked out well in the end and his son still plays and I get on really well with the dad. Could never have worked with him though, we'd have totally fallen out in a very short period.
anniesdad said:
What's he/she getting wrong in your opinion?
Quite a few things IMO. First of all, his son plays too. His son is probably *the* most petulant and disobedient child I've seen in a long time. He needs to be benched. If he's subbed he'll start sulking and screaming at his dad - the manager - and call him an idiot and that he's a s
t dad. He's also quite overweight. He can deliver a decent dead-ball but that's it. He has the mobility of a walrus. But dad/manager puts up with it and thinks the team doesn't function well without him. I'd say the team is poor with him in it because if he's asked to track back he folds his arms and stays planted in midfield. There's also this rotating of players. He will insist on rotating players. I'll support this but we've had a really bad season of the lads not being happy playing out of position; my suggestion was to play them in their best positions and try to establish a shape and identity. Once we have that we can start to tinker. He doesn't experiment on the training pitch and yesterday decided shuffle the players minutes before being fielded against a well-drilled team. Unsurprisingly a hammering was dished out and there was no recovering after the third goal went in. Heads dropped and he started telling them (during the match) not to focus on the score because, "They're a good team".
During that game our best striker (who was being played in MF) said he wanted to come off because he was injured (he wasn't; he was protesting) and the GK also feigned injury because his pride was taking a battering because he didn't want to feel humiliated by picking the ball out of the yet net again after four (he basically manipulated his way onto the pitch and started kicking lumps out of the opponents) which meant more advantage and freekicks, ergo more goals to concede.
I'm from a rugby playing background and for me it's about getting the basics right and lay that marker down early. The manager is a bit clueless and soft.
Glassman said:
Quite a few things IMO.
First of all, his son plays too. His son is probably *the* most petulant and disobedient child I've seen in a long time. He needs to be benched. If he's subbed he'll start sulking and screaming at his dad - the manager - and call him an idiot and that he's a st dad. He's also quite overweight. He can deliver a decent dead-ball but that's it. He has the mobility of a walrus. But dad/manager puts up with it and thinks the team doesn't function well without him. I'd say the team is poor with him in it because if he's asked to track back he folds his arms and stays planted in midfield.
There's also this rotating of players. He will insist on rotating players. I'll support this but we've had a really bad season of the lads not being happy playing out of position; my suggestion was to play them in their best positions and try to establish a shape and identity. Once we have that we can start to tinker. He doesn't experiment on the training pitch and yesterday decided shuffle the players minutes before being fielded against a well-drilled team. Unsurprisingly a hammering was dished out and there was no recovering after the third goal went in. Heads dropped and he started telling them (during the match) not to focus on the score because, "They're a good team".
During that game our best striker (who was being played in MF) said he wanted to come off because he was injured (he wasn't; he was protesting) and the GK also feigned injury because his pride was taking a battering because he didn't want to feel humiliated by picking the ball out of the yet net again after four (he basically manipulated his way onto the pitch and started kicking lumps out of the opponents) which meant more advantage and freekicks, ergo more goals to concede.
I'm from a rugby playing background and for me it's about getting the basics right and lay that marker down early. The manager is a bit clueless and soft.
Wow. Ok. First of all, his son plays too. His son is probably *the* most petulant and disobedient child I've seen in a long time. He needs to be benched. If he's subbed he'll start sulking and screaming at his dad - the manager - and call him an idiot and that he's a s
t dad. He's also quite overweight. He can deliver a decent dead-ball but that's it. He has the mobility of a walrus. But dad/manager puts up with it and thinks the team doesn't function well without him. I'd say the team is poor with him in it because if he's asked to track back he folds his arms and stays planted in midfield. There's also this rotating of players. He will insist on rotating players. I'll support this but we've had a really bad season of the lads not being happy playing out of position; my suggestion was to play them in their best positions and try to establish a shape and identity. Once we have that we can start to tinker. He doesn't experiment on the training pitch and yesterday decided shuffle the players minutes before being fielded against a well-drilled team. Unsurprisingly a hammering was dished out and there was no recovering after the third goal went in. Heads dropped and he started telling them (during the match) not to focus on the score because, "They're a good team".
During that game our best striker (who was being played in MF) said he wanted to come off because he was injured (he wasn't; he was protesting) and the GK also feigned injury because his pride was taking a battering because he didn't want to feel humiliated by picking the ball out of the yet net again after four (he basically manipulated his way onto the pitch and started kicking lumps out of the opponents) which meant more advantage and freekicks, ergo more goals to concede.
I'm from a rugby playing background and for me it's about getting the basics right and lay that marker down early. The manager is a bit clueless and soft.
His son needs disciplining, his attitude will undermine any respect the players might have for he and you for that matter. Yes he probably needs to drop his son for a game or two until he re-establishes some control.
Rotating players is good. It gives them a good idea of different positions and how their team mates might think in any given situation. That said they are 9 years old, I've a 9 year old too and whilst he might have some situational awareness (it's one of his better points actually) some of his team mates simply do not.
Why not ask the players as a group if they would prefer to stick to what you/they perceive to be their best positions and see what they say. Don't be surprised if none of them say they would like to play in defence though.
If they collectively agree to rotate then I would keep on with that as that is giving them all a chance to play up front and be the "man".
It is their team after all. Coaches/managers are just there to help provide a safe environment for them to play in and give them a little technical help along the way.
You'd like to think that given time your league will find the right level of competition for them and huge scorelines can be avoided. My team has given out hammerings and received them over the years. It still happens now at U13, our top team won in the county cup 18-0 yesterday. In the same cup competition, we won 6-5 on pens after a hard fought 1-1!
My 9 year old is in our clubs development squad of 5 squads. So far this season, they've lost all 4 of their games and scored only 1 goal in the process.
Glassman said:
Quite a few things IMO.
First of all, his son plays too. His son is probably *the* most petulant and disobedient child I've seen in a long time. He needs to be benched. If he's subbed he'll start sulking and screaming at his dad - the manager - and call him an idiot and that he's a st dad. He's also quite overweight. He can deliver a decent dead-ball but that's it. He has the mobility of a walrus. But dad/manager puts up with it and thinks the team doesn't function well without him. I'd say the team is poor with him in it because if he's asked to track back he folds his arms and stays planted in midfield.
There's also this rotating of players. He will insist on rotating players. I'll support this but we've had a really bad season of the lads not being happy playing out of position; my suggestion was to play them in their best positions and try to establish a shape and identity. Once we have that we can start to tinker. He doesn't experiment on the training pitch and yesterday decided shuffle the players minutes before being fielded against a well-drilled team. Unsurprisingly a hammering was dished out and there was no recovering after the third goal went in. Heads dropped and he started telling them (during the match) not to focus on the score because, "They're a good team".
During that game our best striker (who was being played in MF) said he wanted to come off because he was injured (he wasn't; he was protesting) and the GK also feigned injury because his pride was taking a battering because he didn't want to feel humiliated by picking the ball out of the yet net again after four (he basically manipulated his way onto the pitch and started kicking lumps out of the opponents) which meant more advantage and freekicks, ergo more goals to concede.
I'm from a rugby playing background and for me it's about getting the basics right and lay that marker down early. The manager is a bit clueless and soft.
Hmm, Coaches son syndrome is a really tricky one, and many many coaches and youth leaders suffer from this. This is an area you can really help with, as if the lad is hearing it from you, he is more likely to take it in. First of all, his son plays too. His son is probably *the* most petulant and disobedient child I've seen in a long time. He needs to be benched. If he's subbed he'll start sulking and screaming at his dad - the manager - and call him an idiot and that he's a s
t dad. He's also quite overweight. He can deliver a decent dead-ball but that's it. He has the mobility of a walrus. But dad/manager puts up with it and thinks the team doesn't function well without him. I'd say the team is poor with him in it because if he's asked to track back he folds his arms and stays planted in midfield. There's also this rotating of players. He will insist on rotating players. I'll support this but we've had a really bad season of the lads not being happy playing out of position; my suggestion was to play them in their best positions and try to establish a shape and identity. Once we have that we can start to tinker. He doesn't experiment on the training pitch and yesterday decided shuffle the players minutes before being fielded against a well-drilled team. Unsurprisingly a hammering was dished out and there was no recovering after the third goal went in. Heads dropped and he started telling them (during the match) not to focus on the score because, "They're a good team".
During that game our best striker (who was being played in MF) said he wanted to come off because he was injured (he wasn't; he was protesting) and the GK also feigned injury because his pride was taking a battering because he didn't want to feel humiliated by picking the ball out of the yet net again after four (he basically manipulated his way onto the pitch and started kicking lumps out of the opponents) which meant more advantage and freekicks, ergo more goals to concede.
I'm from a rugby playing background and for me it's about getting the basics right and lay that marker down early. The manager is a bit clueless and soft.
What's the goal here ? Win every match ? play well - provide sporting opportunities for players ? It's good to have a bit of a philosophical view point. In my experience there is a WORLD of difference in coaching if you are only about winning. Versus engaging players in a lifelong of sport.
Personally I agree with rotating players, particularly at a young age, Yes some are natural defenders versus attackers, I used to play a weighted rotation, so you play about 60% in your best fit and about 20% out of position, and 20% sub. But overall its better for development and cognitive skills.
As for players heads dropping when they are getting beat - that is just awful. It comes because to them the ONLY goal is winning. Set them other challenges - can you keep the ball for one minute. Can you make five passes. Or my favourite for when we were getting hosed. Can we get 1 back ? Players need to adjust - if my striker won't run back, he is getting subbed and getting told he is being subbed specifically for that reason.
What is really happening is others are seeing the coaches son get his own way, and so are acting up.
Glassman said:
There's also this rotating of players. He will insist on rotating players. I'll support this but we've had a really bad season of the lads not being happy playing out of position; my suggestion was to play them in their best positions and try to establish a shape and identity. Once we have that we can start to tinker. He doesn't experiment on the training pitch and yesterday decided shuffle the players minutes before being fielded against a well-drilled team. Unsurprisingly a hammering was dished out and there was no recovering after the third goal went in. Heads dropped and he started telling them (during the match) not to focus on the score because, "They're a good team".
I'm from a rugby playing background and for me it's about getting the basics right and lay that marker down early. The manager is a bit clueless and soft.
I'll focus on this bit. I'm from a rugby playing background and for me it's about getting the basics right and lay that marker down early. The manager is a bit clueless and soft.
In my opinion, he is right to be rotating players. At this age the focus should be on development of your players not doing whatever is required to win games. Yes winning is nice, but not at the expense of player development.
My players rotate positions during a game. But I try as much as I can to limit where. So I'll move from Left defence to Left midfield and so on. Over the course of the season they will all have spent time in each position. Including in goal! I want my players to be able to play everywhere on the pitch, and understand what is required in each position. Hopefully this will lead to more rounded players with a better understanding of the game. At this age they are far too young to be playing in one position. That should start to happen at 14/15ish depending on the players.
How long has the other coach been looking after the team? It's quite easy to get to a point where you stagnate. At this point a fresh outlook and new ideas can be good. However just going in and saying he is wrong without providing a credible alternative will likely lead to falling out rather than providing opportunity for the kids.
I have 2 assistants. Both of them are now good friends and both their boys play for the team. I have always had a policy that any of us are free to provide an opinion on any aspect of what we do, or something one of the others has done. As long as there is a constructive point. And we do without taking it the wrong way. As a coach you have to leave your ego at home and everything should be about the kids.
Another thing we do. Is not deal with our own kids if they are playing up. One of the other coaches deals with them.
I would recommend that you, or both go on the FA Level one coaching course. It's well worth it. Also look a bit further up this thread for the link I put to FA DNA Hive learning pages. There is a lot of really good resource on there.
Thanks for the pointers; much appreciated.
Another question:
The setup across all the age groups (AFAIK) is that on training there will be a professional coach. That's all he comes in for. I have to say the two I have worked with with our team, and the others I have seen are all excellent. Really good guys and bring a lot of experience with them. The bit I don't get is that because they don't attend games. The two guys we've had have not seen the boys play in a match.
Any views on this?
Another question:
The setup across all the age groups (AFAIK) is that on training there will be a professional coach. That's all he comes in for. I have to say the two I have worked with with our team, and the others I have seen are all excellent. Really good guys and bring a lot of experience with them. The bit I don't get is that because they don't attend games. The two guys we've had have not seen the boys play in a match.
Any views on this?
Glassman said:
Thanks for the pointers; much appreciated.
Another question:
The setup across all the age groups (AFAIK) is that on training there will be a professional coach. That's all he comes in for. I have to say the two I have worked with with our team, and the others I have seen are all excellent. Really good guys and bring a lot of experience with them. The bit I don't get is that because they don't attend games. The two guys we've had have not seen the boys play in a match.
Any views on this?
Sounds great. When you say "he" I take it you mean your son. Presumably you're paying a monthly fee for the privilege. £30pm?Another question:
The setup across all the age groups (AFAIK) is that on training there will be a professional coach. That's all he comes in for. I have to say the two I have worked with with our team, and the others I have seen are all excellent. Really good guys and bring a lot of experience with them. The bit I don't get is that because they don't attend games. The two guys we've had have not seen the boys play in a match.
Any views on this?
Don't get too hung up on matchday, maybe the coaches can give you their opinion of which positions might suit the kids best but honestly I wouldn't overthink it. Do your best to give them all equal game time, make it as fun as possible and provide only praise and encouragement. They're only babbas...
anniesdad said:
Sounds great. When you say "he" I take it you mean your son. Presumably you're paying a monthly fee for the privilege. £30pm?
Sorry, I could have explained it better. Each team is assigned a professional coach. He comes in to train them, and hat's all he's there for, to coach. He doesn't attend games and isn't involved in any other way other other than training. Glassman said:
anniesdad said:
Sounds great. When you say "he" I take it you mean your son. Presumably you're paying a monthly fee for the privilege. £30pm?
Sorry, I could have explained it better. Each team is assigned a professional coach. He comes in to train them, and hat's all he's there for, to coach. He doesn't attend games and isn't involved in any other way other other than training. I guess it's quite unusual but I think it's great that the players are getting good quality coaching. What will improve them more than anything will be playing football outside of regular training and matchdays, down the park with their friends/parents or in the school playground etc.
That is unusual. Paying coaches doesn't necessarily mean you are getting high quality coaching. But I'll assume in this case the coaching is good.
The issue for me would be the disconnect between training and a game. The things the kids are asked to do should be an extension of the topic from the previous training session. Which is hopefully part of a block of learning rather than just throwing random topics at the kids.
If the kids are getting a different message on a weekend it could be massively confusing for them. At that age confusion can cause them to shut down. Especially if they are being shouted at from the side line.
Does the dad that takes the matches attend training?
The issue for me would be the disconnect between training and a game. The things the kids are asked to do should be an extension of the topic from the previous training session. Which is hopefully part of a block of learning rather than just throwing random topics at the kids.
If the kids are getting a different message on a weekend it could be massively confusing for them. At that age confusion can cause them to shut down. Especially if they are being shouted at from the side line.
Does the dad that takes the matches attend training?
48Valves said:
That is unusual. Paying coaches doesn't necessarily mean you are getting high quality coaching. But I'll assume in this case the coaching is good.
The issue for me would be the disconnect between training and a game. The things the kids are asked to do should be an extension of the topic from the previous training session. Which is hopefully part of a block of learning rather than just throwing random topics at the kids.
If the kids are getting a different message on a weekend it could be massively confusing for them. At that age confusion can cause them to shut down. Especially if they are being shouted at from the side line.
Does the dad that takes the matches attend training?
I was assuming (perhaps wrongly) that it is technique based sessions concentrating on touch, dribbling, small sided games, 1 v 1, 2 v 2 etc. as opposed to positional play. Let's not forget they are only 9 years old. The issue for me would be the disconnect between training and a game. The things the kids are asked to do should be an extension of the topic from the previous training session. Which is hopefully part of a block of learning rather than just throwing random topics at the kids.
If the kids are getting a different message on a weekend it could be massively confusing for them. At that age confusion can cause them to shut down. Especially if they are being shouted at from the side line.
Does the dad that takes the matches attend training?
I definitely see your point though.
48Valves said:
That is unusual. Paying coaches doesn't necessarily mean you are getting high quality coaching. But I'll assume in this case the coaching is good.
The issue for me would be the disconnect between training and a game. The things the kids are asked to do should be an extension of the topic from the previous training session. Which is hopefully part of a block of learning rather than just throwing random topics at the kids.
If the kids are getting a different message on a weekend it could be massively confusing for them. At that age confusion can cause them to shut down. Especially if they are being shouted at from the side line.
Does the dad that takes the matches attend training?
He does. But doesn't get involved much. I'm there too but I like to get involved.The issue for me would be the disconnect between training and a game. The things the kids are asked to do should be an extension of the topic from the previous training session. Which is hopefully part of a block of learning rather than just throwing random topics at the kids.
If the kids are getting a different message on a weekend it could be massively confusing for them. At that age confusion can cause them to shut down. Especially if they are being shouted at from the side line.
Does the dad that takes the matches attend training?
It's the gap between training and match day that concerns me. I think what the hired coach does is one thing and then the manager saying, "Right, today we're going to try this" as they're about to run on the pitch for a game isn't doing them any good.
We pay for professional coaching at all ages in our club and it's great. The coaching is of a high standard and all managers attend the training sessions working with the coaches and also feed into them what they want from the sessions. My son had the same coach for his first 4 years at the club and he was brilliant. We've changed the coach this year and it's going well so far. If they're crap they get sacked and we get someone else in.
As for cost, our club fees are £17.5 pcm, which includes professional coaching on 4g pitches 11 months a year, all games, kit (inc hoodies and raincoats), all tournament fees (circa 12 per year), Christmas Party, end of season award ceremony, and circa 6 futsal sessions a year. Keeper training is also available free of charge.
By comparison, my eldest goes to an Academy where it's £40pcm - and we have to pay to enter tournaments, pay for the Xmas pary, pay for the end of year party, pay for hoodies and generally get st service.
As for cost, our club fees are £17.5 pcm, which includes professional coaching on 4g pitches 11 months a year, all games, kit (inc hoodies and raincoats), all tournament fees (circa 12 per year), Christmas Party, end of season award ceremony, and circa 6 futsal sessions a year. Keeper training is also available free of charge.
By comparison, my eldest goes to an Academy where it's £40pcm - and we have to pay to enter tournaments, pay for the Xmas pary, pay for the end of year party, pay for hoodies and generally get s
t service.JQ said:
We pay for professional coaching at all ages in our club and it's great. The coaching is of a high standard and all managers attend the training sessions working with the coaches and also feed into them what they want from the sessions. My son had the same coach for his first 4 years at the club and he was brilliant. We've changed the coach this year and it's going well so far. If they're crap they get sacked and we get someone else in.
As for cost, our club fees are £17.5 pcm, which includes professional coaching on 4g pitches 11 months a year, all games, kit (inc hoodies and raincoats), all tournament fees (circa 12 per year), Christmas Party, end of season award ceremony, and circa 6 futsal sessions a year. Keeper training is also available free of charge.
By comparison, my eldest goes to an Academy where it's £40pcm - and we have to pay to enter tournaments, pay for the Xmas pary, pay for the end of year party, pay for hoodies and generally get st service.
How is the club funded then ? Clearly less than 20 squid a month isn’t covering all of that. Is someone else donating or fundraising. As for cost, our club fees are £17.5 pcm, which includes professional coaching on 4g pitches 11 months a year, all games, kit (inc hoodies and raincoats), all tournament fees (circa 12 per year), Christmas Party, end of season award ceremony, and circa 6 futsal sessions a year. Keeper training is also available free of charge.
By comparison, my eldest goes to an Academy where it's £40pcm - and we have to pay to enter tournaments, pay for the Xmas pary, pay for the end of year party, pay for hoodies and generally get s
t service.I was paying 120 an hour, just for 4g.... and that was hired from the school most of the kids weren’t to...
Edited by Gargamel on Tuesday 2nd October 00:52
Gargamel said:
How is the club funded then ? Clearly less than 20 squid a month isn’t covering all of that. Is someone else donating or fundraising.
I was paying 120 an hour, just for 4g.... and that was hired from the school most of the kids weren’t to...
Apologies - I got my sums wrong, forgot the £100 up front followed by 11 monthly payments, so it actually works out at £24 pcm over the year. Money comes from lots of sources - FA pays for the futsal, we get grants from Co-op, Sainsburys, Tesco etc, giftaid on the subs, all teams are individually sponsored, plus we get separate club sponsors for both home and away kits, we've partnered with professional club to provide onward progression for older kids, and we partnered with a local trust to assist them get planning consent and funding for their 4g pitch - we're their community sponsor and get use of the pitch 4 evenings a week. There's a committee who work tirelessly 365 to source funding and benefits for the club.I was paying 120 an hour, just for 4g.... and that was hired from the school most of the kids weren’t to...
Edited by Gargamel on Tuesday 2nd October 00:52
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