The Official West Ham United Thread. Vol 2
Discussion
Although I am sympathetic to the fans prepared to march in protest about the way West Ham is being run by its owners, I really do have to wonder what exactly it is about the word 'owner' that they don't get.
I was first taken to Upton Park by my dad over 60 years ago, and I have followed their ups and downs ever since then. But fans have to realise that it is not people like me or them that the club belongs to, any more than someone 'owns' Tesco because they spend their money there. A football club is a business, with income and expenditure, profit and loss, owners and customers.
If Tesco offer poor quality then people will go to Sainsbury's. That's when Tesco will act, when they see their income dwindling. As long as people keep turning up to the ground on Saturday afternoons in their tens of thousands, moaning or otherwise, there is no incentive for the Board to do anything about the situation.
Probably the best option financially for the board is to invest just enough to stay in the Premier League, but no more. That would keep the gates at a reasonable level but avoid spending stupid amounts on transfer fees and wages. They are cutting it a bit fine this year, that's for sure, and have been caught out by the injuries. The stadium deal was a masterstroke, of course, financially speaking, but not for the fans.
It's no use whatsoever marching up and down the roads outside the ground. The way to achieve change is to fail to turn up to matches - by the thousands, and tens of thousands.
I was first taken to Upton Park by my dad over 60 years ago, and I have followed their ups and downs ever since then. But fans have to realise that it is not people like me or them that the club belongs to, any more than someone 'owns' Tesco because they spend their money there. A football club is a business, with income and expenditure, profit and loss, owners and customers.
If Tesco offer poor quality then people will go to Sainsbury's. That's when Tesco will act, when they see their income dwindling. As long as people keep turning up to the ground on Saturday afternoons in their tens of thousands, moaning or otherwise, there is no incentive for the Board to do anything about the situation.
Probably the best option financially for the board is to invest just enough to stay in the Premier League, but no more. That would keep the gates at a reasonable level but avoid spending stupid amounts on transfer fees and wages. They are cutting it a bit fine this year, that's for sure, and have been caught out by the injuries. The stadium deal was a masterstroke, of course, financially speaking, but not for the fans.
It's no use whatsoever marching up and down the roads outside the ground. The way to achieve change is to fail to turn up to matches - by the thousands, and tens of thousands.
Roofless Toothless said:
Although I am sympathetic to the fans prepared to march in protest about the way West Ham is being run by its owners, I really do have to wonder what exactly it is about the word 'owner' that they don't get.
I think the question is what it is about the word "supporter" that the owners don't get.Roofless Toothless said:
Probably the best option financially for the board is to invest just enough to stay in the Premier League, but no more.
How is that calculated? Makes it sound like if you spend £X you stay up.
No need to worry about what actually happens on the pitch, just spend £X and Bob's your Uncle, safe in 17th.
This seasons PL relegation battle is shaping up to be a MOAB. It could well go down to the last game with half a dozen teams in danger.
Goal Difference could well come into it.
Very little that Queen of Mean and the Porno Boys can do about that now.
I think we'll scrape it, just.
However, as we're talking about WH here, anything is possible from a sudden burst of form taking us into the top half (unlikely) to the worst kind of clusterf
k, that results in us playing Sheffield United and Millwall next season with Carlton returning for the 15th time and someone like Ian Dowie as manager. Hammer67 said:
How is that calculated?
Makes it sound like if you spend £X you stay up.
No need to worry about what actually happens on the pitch, just spend £X and Bob's your Uncle, safe in 17th.
This seasons PL relegation battle is shaping up to be a MOAB. It could well go down to the last game with half a dozen teams in danger.
Goal Difference could well come into it.
Very little that Queen of Mean and the Porno Boys can do about that now.
I think we'll scrape it, just.
However, as we're talking about WH here, anything is possible from a sudden burst of form taking us into the top half (unlikely) to the worst kind of clusterfk, that results in us playing Sheffield United and Millwall next season with Carlton returning for the 15th time and someone like Ian Dowie as manager.
Makes it sound like if you spend £X you stay up.
No need to worry about what actually happens on the pitch, just spend £X and Bob's your Uncle, safe in 17th.
This seasons PL relegation battle is shaping up to be a MOAB. It could well go down to the last game with half a dozen teams in danger.
Goal Difference could well come into it.
Very little that Queen of Mean and the Porno Boys can do about that now.
I think we'll scrape it, just.
However, as we're talking about WH here, anything is possible from a sudden burst of form taking us into the top half (unlikely) to the worst kind of clusterf
k, that results in us playing Sheffield United and Millwall next season with Carlton returning for the 15th time and someone like Ian Dowie as manager. 
At least Cole would put some effort in! Getting Arnautovic fit ASAP is the key for me, he can pick up other players performances. f
k knows what is going on with Antonio, has he had some kind of mental breakdown? BrabusMog said:
At least Cole would put some effort in! Getting Arnautovic fit ASAP is the key for me, he can pick up other players performances. f
k knows what is going on with Antonio, has he had some kind of mental breakdown? Roofless Toothless said:
Although I am sympathetic to the fans prepared to march in protest about the way West Ham is being run by its owners, I really do have to wonder what exactly it is about the word 'owner' that they don't get.
I was first taken to Upton Park by my dad over 60 years ago, and I have followed their ups and downs ever since then. But fans have to realise that it is not people like me or them that the club belongs to, any more than someone 'owns' Tesco because they spend their money there. A football club is a business, with income and expenditure, profit and loss, owners and customers.
If Tesco offer poor quality then people will go to Sainsbury's. That's when Tesco will act, when they see their income dwindling. As long as people keep turning up to the ground on Saturday afternoons in their tens of thousands, moaning or otherwise, there is no incentive for the Board to do anything about the situation.
Probably the best option financially for the board is to invest just enough to stay in the Premier League, but no more. That would keep the gates at a reasonable level but avoid spending stupid amounts on transfer fees and wages. They are cutting it a bit fine this year, that's for sure, and have been caught out by the injuries. The stadium deal was a masterstroke, of course, financially speaking, but not for the fans.
It's no use whatsoever marching up and down the roads outside the ground. The way to achieve change is to fail to turn up to matches - by the thousands, and tens of thousands.
Unfortunately the business analogy falls over a fair bit when it comes to football. For instance people shop on average 3-4 supermarkets over the course of a year, thats not the case here hence the ability to swap is not an option as you in effect are only going to go watch one team as watching another regularly and investing reasonable amounts of money is not an option. There are some exclusion i.e. people that live in Dagenham who watch the Hammers and the Daggers but generally its a one option only industry. I was first taken to Upton Park by my dad over 60 years ago, and I have followed their ups and downs ever since then. But fans have to realise that it is not people like me or them that the club belongs to, any more than someone 'owns' Tesco because they spend their money there. A football club is a business, with income and expenditure, profit and loss, owners and customers.
If Tesco offer poor quality then people will go to Sainsbury's. That's when Tesco will act, when they see their income dwindling. As long as people keep turning up to the ground on Saturday afternoons in their tens of thousands, moaning or otherwise, there is no incentive for the Board to do anything about the situation.
Probably the best option financially for the board is to invest just enough to stay in the Premier League, but no more. That would keep the gates at a reasonable level but avoid spending stupid amounts on transfer fees and wages. They are cutting it a bit fine this year, that's for sure, and have been caught out by the injuries. The stadium deal was a masterstroke, of course, financially speaking, but not for the fans.
It's no use whatsoever marching up and down the roads outside the ground. The way to achieve change is to fail to turn up to matches - by the thousands, and tens of thousands.
Ironically a club could make it through a season financially without people attending. Yes they would lose money but its small change compared the billions that get pumped into the premier league by TV stations. For example when Leicester won the league, they received prize money, the following season when Sunderland finished a dismal last they received MORE money than Leicester did for winning it the previous season. Fans are being marginalised by cashflows through the club and out and out business people like our owners are in it for that cash flow and nothing else. You have a loyalty vs business engagement here and clubs where the business is good (our owners are not out of pocket here, all investments are being paid back to them plus substantial interest from the club) but the fans want more than a good business model when they are supporting the 17th richest club in the world, they want a decent team that can compete mid-table and not get pumped against Brighton.
sjc said:
BrabusMog said:
At least Cole would put some effort in! Getting Arnautovic fit ASAP is the key for me, he can pick up other players performances. f
k knows what is going on with Antonio, has he had some kind of mental breakdown? coldel said:
Unfortunately the business analogy falls over a fair bit when it comes to football. For instance people shop on average 3-4 supermarkets over the course of a year, thats not the case here hence the ability to swap is not an option as you in effect are only going to go watch one team as watching another regularly and investing reasonable amounts of money is not an option. There are some exclusion i.e. people that live in Dagenham who watch the Hammers and the Daggers but generally its a one option only industry.
Ironically a club could make it through a season financially without people attending. Yes they would lose money but its small change compared the billions that get pumped into the premier league by TV stations. For example when Leicester won the league, they received prize money, the following season when Sunderland finished a dismal last they received MORE money than Leicester did for winning it the previous season. Fans are being marginalised by cashflows through the club and out and out business people like our owners are in it for that cash flow and nothing else. You have a loyalty vs business engagement here and clubs where the business is good (our owners are not out of pocket here, all investments are being paid back to them plus substantial interest from the club) but the fans want more than a good business model when they are supporting the 17th richest club in the world, they want a decent team that can compete mid-table and not get pumped against Brighton.
Are we seriously the 17th richest club in the world?!Ironically a club could make it through a season financially without people attending. Yes they would lose money but its small change compared the billions that get pumped into the premier league by TV stations. For example when Leicester won the league, they received prize money, the following season when Sunderland finished a dismal last they received MORE money than Leicester did for winning it the previous season. Fans are being marginalised by cashflows through the club and out and out business people like our owners are in it for that cash flow and nothing else. You have a loyalty vs business engagement here and clubs where the business is good (our owners are not out of pocket here, all investments are being paid back to them plus substantial interest from the club) but the fans want more than a good business model when they are supporting the 17th richest club in the world, they want a decent team that can compete mid-table and not get pumped against Brighton.
I can't disagree with you Codel, it is certainly not as easy to swap which football team you support as it is supermarkets. There's something gets under the skin, isn't there? Remember, I said I remember standing in the Chicken Run with my dad 60 years ago. That means something to me.
But there are reasonably local alternative venues to watch football in London (perhaps not other towns) and if the quality of what is being served up goes down the tubes - and this will take into account the opponents as well if we are relegated - I am sure people will vote with their feet in the end.
It's a very special sort of fan that will keep turning up through thick and thin, and the business orientated management are taking them for granted at the moment. There are probably plenty that will have had enough before long.
But as I said at the beginning, the die-hards have to realise that the Supporter's Club and the WHU football club itself are two different entities. At the financial level they are merely customers, and it is no use marching outside Tesco because their oven ready chips aren't as good as Sainsbury's.
But there are reasonably local alternative venues to watch football in London (perhaps not other towns) and if the quality of what is being served up goes down the tubes - and this will take into account the opponents as well if we are relegated - I am sure people will vote with their feet in the end.
It's a very special sort of fan that will keep turning up through thick and thin, and the business orientated management are taking them for granted at the moment. There are probably plenty that will have had enough before long.
But as I said at the beginning, the die-hards have to realise that the Supporter's Club and the WHU football club itself are two different entities. At the financial level they are merely customers, and it is no use marching outside Tesco because their oven ready chips aren't as good as Sainsbury's.
Unfortunately (if thats the right word) fans do stick it through thick and thin, when WHU get relegated you dont see much in the way of attendance drops. Because they support the club, they want the players to do well, by not attending matches they harm the club and the players (and the results potentially) whereas the fans want to attack the owners here. What would be more effective is an alternative solution, shouting get out isn't going to work whilst the TV money continues to pour in and pay out in rewards to those that own a share of the business.
Roofless Toothless said:
I can't disagree with you Codel, it is certainly not as easy to swap which football team you support as it is supermarkets. There's something gets under the skin, isn't there? Remember, I said I remember standing in the Chicken Run with my dad 60 years ago. That means something to me.
But there are reasonably local alternative venues to watch football in London (perhaps not other towns) and if the quality of what is being served up goes down the tubes - and this will take into account the opponents as well if we are relegated - I am sure people will vote with their feet in the end.
It's a very special sort of fan that will keep turning up through thick and thin, and the business orientated management are taking them for granted at the moment. There are probably plenty that will have had enough before long.
But as I said at the beginning, the die-hards have to realise that the Supporter's Club and the WHU football club itself are two different entities. At the financial level they are merely customers, and it is no use marching outside Tesco because their oven ready chips aren't as good as Sainsbury's.
I was in the chicken run for 15(ish) years. It was infuriating and encapsulating, in equal measure. But there are reasonably local alternative venues to watch football in London (perhaps not other towns) and if the quality of what is being served up goes down the tubes - and this will take into account the opponents as well if we are relegated - I am sure people will vote with their feet in the end.
It's a very special sort of fan that will keep turning up through thick and thin, and the business orientated management are taking them for granted at the moment. There are probably plenty that will have had enough before long.
But as I said at the beginning, the die-hards have to realise that the Supporter's Club and the WHU football club itself are two different entities. At the financial level they are merely customers, and it is no use marching outside Tesco because their oven ready chips aren't as good as Sainsbury's.
How that stand never burnt down I shall never understand. The steps were made of wood and there were no risers, just empty space allowing you to look down at what was beneath. There was a gap to a sloping floor of corrugated iron about a couple feet below. This was filled up with a litter consisting mainly of peanut shells - back in the days when Percy Dalton sold them in paper bags and you shelled them yourself. Probably a foot deep. Fag ends, naturally, were tossed down and kicked right into this mix. How it never went up in flames is a mystery.
bad company said:
TCEvo said:
Convenient then that we sold them a striker last week...
That was a criminal decision imo. 
Roofless Toothless said:
How that stand never burnt down I shall never understand. The steps were made of wood and there were no risers, just empty space allowing you to look down at what was beneath. There was a gap to a sloping floor of corrugated iron about a couple feet below. This was filled up with a litter consisting mainly of peanut shells - back in the days when Percy Dalton sold them in paper bags and you shelled them yourself. Probably a foot deep. Fag ends, naturally, were tossed down and kicked right into this mix. How it never went up in flames is a mystery.
Thinks for bringing back the memories..........Not only did I spend many hours in the chicken run I also spent many hours in the stand at the club's previous Memorial Grounds. 
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