The Official Manchester United Thread [Vol 6]
Discussion
selym said:
MiniMan64 said:
Ascayman said:
ORD said:
Utd is run very sensibly.
90m for pogba and 75m for lukaku is far from sensible. Ascayman said:
Black can man said:
Ascayman said:
90m for pogba and 75m for lukaku is far from sensible.
Careful fellaThe only struggle with reality is down at WHL where they don't seem to understand that nobody worth having is coming for £100K a week any more and that its going to get very difficult to hang on to top players and expect them to stay for that kind of money (however obscene it may be in the real world).
Alpinestars said:
Can somebody remind me what the aim of a football team is as far as their fans are concerned? Isn't the holly grail to win trophies? Or is it a competition to see who can spend the least, whilst never winning anything?
It's definitely to win trophies. Ideally the premier league or Champions league but I've been truly delighted with trophies won last season. Nice to get in the winning habit.I've had a dive into the Spurs thread today. Just a read, it's a different world. I only went back a few pages but it was a series of polite exchanges by the same reprobates polluting this thread. Well researched discussion about nobody being available to improve their current first team.
The occasional plea for levy to get his wad out but genuine affection for each other and gentle expectation management and further agreement that they'll win nothing but still be best club and the most lovely proper football fans off them all.
What the f
k happens to them when they come in here is bewildering. Alpinestars said:
Can somebody remind me what the aim of a football team is as far as their fans are concerned? Isn't the holly grail to win trophies? Or is it a competition to see who can spend the least, whilst never winning anything?
I'll come to the fans part , but these are not fans clubs, they are businesses, some of which are listed on the markets and a primary responsibility to the owner or shareholders. That in some cases is to make money and not to win trophies although you could argue that trophies should help revenuesI agree that most fans want glory but there are very few who can expect a trophy. Your team, arsenal, Chelsea, man city and Liverpool can all have their fans aim to win trophies. Others like my team (saints) live in hope that we can challenge and one year in 10 we might make a final.... and much as I would love this to change, money talks and our best players get sold (Bale, Walcott, the ox, Morgan, Shaw, lallana, clyne, chambers etc etc)
If you support Yeovi, Stockport, Preston, you aim for a cup run, promotion, or the lower leagues cup. It's different being a lower league team fan and although they might dream of the FA cup, it's unlikely
You're right in that all fans want trophies but for the vast majority of fans, trophies are sadly a dream, and most of the top clubs are not run for the fans, but the owners and fans are just the cash cow in driving profits.
The jiffle king said:
Alpinestars said:
Can somebody remind me what the aim of a football team is as far as their fans are concerned? Isn't the holly grail to win trophies? Or is it a competition to see who can spend the least, whilst never winning anything?
I'll come to the fans part , but these are not fans clubs, they are businesses, some of which are listed on the markets and a primary responsibility to the owner or shareholders. That in some cases is to make money and not to win trophies although you could argue that trophies should help revenuesI agree that most fans want glory but there are very few who can expect a trophy. Your team, arsenal, Chelsea, man city and Liverpool can all have their fans aim to win trophies. Others like my team (saints) live in hope that we can challenge and one year in 10 we might make a final....
The jiffle king said:
I'll come to the fans part , but these are not fans clubs, they are businesses, some of which are listed on the markets and a primary responsibility to the owner or shareholders. That in some cases is to make money and not to win trophies although you could argue that trophies should help revenues
I agree that most fans want glory but there are very few who can expect a trophy. Your team, arsenal, Chelsea, man city and Liverpool can all have their fans aim to win trophies. Others like my team (saints) live in hope that we can challenge and one year in 10 we might make a final.... and much as I would love this to change, money talks and our best players get sold (Bale, Walcott, the ox, Morgan, Shaw, lallana, clyne, chambers etc etc)
If you support Yeovi, Stockport, Preston, you aim for a cup run, promotion, or the lower leagues cup. It's different being a lower league team fan and although they might dream of the FA cup, it's unlikely
You're right in that all fans want trophies but for the vast majority of fans, trophies are sadly a dream, and most of the top clubs are not run for the fans, but the owners and fans are just the cash cow in driving profits.
There's a fundamental flaw in your logic though. As businesses they want to maximise revenues. Maximum revenue comes from success and winning things. The more you win, the more sponsorship you attract, the more people associate with your club and the more marketing merchandise you sell. If you rely on simply selling players, then it's short term at best and can lead to a disastrous run that costs £millions (see Newcastle and Aston Villa) as recent examples. I agree that most fans want glory but there are very few who can expect a trophy. Your team, arsenal, Chelsea, man city and Liverpool can all have their fans aim to win trophies. Others like my team (saints) live in hope that we can challenge and one year in 10 we might make a final.... and much as I would love this to change, money talks and our best players get sold (Bale, Walcott, the ox, Morgan, Shaw, lallana, clyne, chambers etc etc)
If you support Yeovi, Stockport, Preston, you aim for a cup run, promotion, or the lower leagues cup. It's different being a lower league team fan and although they might dream of the FA cup, it's unlikely
You're right in that all fans want trophies but for the vast majority of fans, trophies are sadly a dream, and most of the top clubs are not run for the fans, but the owners and fans are just the cash cow in driving profits.
Some clubs in the lower reaches set out simply to survive in the PL and that's understandlable for the smaller clubs, others aspire to mid table and a cup run, but all want success to some extent. When your club has finished 3rd, then 2nd in the PL (like Spurs), then there is no excuse not to invest. All teams need investment, no matter how successful, any team that falls short needs investment to plug that gap. Simp,y sitting on a pile of cash and claiming to be successful is the sign of a club with limited / no ambition, or worse still, a team that's scared to succeed.
Gavia said:
There's a fundamental flaw in your logic though. As businesses they want to maximise revenues. Maximum revenue comes from success and winning things. The more you win, the more sponsorship you attract, the more people associate with your club and the more marketing merchandise you sell. If you rely on simply selling players, then it's short term at best and can lead to a disastrous run that costs £millions (see Newcastle and Aston Villa) as recent examples.
Some clubs in the lower reaches set out simply to survive in the PL and that's understandlable for the smaller clubs, others aspire to mid table and a cup run, but all want success to some extent. When your club has finished 3rd, then 2nd in the PL (like Spurs), then there is no excuse not to invest. All teams need investment, no matter how successful, any team that falls short needs investment to plug that gap. Simp,y sitting on a pile of cash and claiming to be successful is the sign of a club with limited / no ambition, or worse still, a team that's scared to succeed.
I agree with your logic that you need to win things to get fans and therefore revenue in some regards, but staying in the premier league is worth 100million and there are a number of fans who will always buy a shirt and spent x pounds every year, so the incremental for winning the trophy might not be worth the investment for a business. I don't know, but I could see a reason why a business might choose to stay in 3/4th place but not invest the extra 200 million needed to win the trophies. Some clubs in the lower reaches set out simply to survive in the PL and that's understandlable for the smaller clubs, others aspire to mid table and a cup run, but all want success to some extent. When your club has finished 3rd, then 2nd in the PL (like Spurs), then there is no excuse not to invest. All teams need investment, no matter how successful, any team that falls short needs investment to plug that gap. Simp,y sitting on a pile of cash and claiming to be successful is the sign of a club with limited / no ambition, or worse still, a team that's scared to succeed.
The jiffle king said:
I agree with your logic that you need to win things to get fans and therefore revenue in some regards, but staying in the premier league is worth 100million and there are a number of fans who will always buy a shirt and spent x pounds every year, so the incremental for winning the trophy might not be worth the investment for a business. I don't know, but I could see a reason why a business might choose to stay in 3/4th place but not invest the extra 200 million needed to win the trophies.
Look at the oil rich clubs, out of nowhere you see Chelsea and City shirts galore, that you never saw previously. They manage to gather some additional sponsorship, albeit some of it questionable to circumvent FFP rules. Smaller, less fashionable clubs see survival as their primary goal initially, but even they need to invest to survive. Selling clubs will always fall away, often through several divisions. Even clubs that fail to invest, can disappear very quickly, Bolton, Wigan, Charlton, Blackpool, Wimbledon and so on, all were PL clubs not long ago, but all avoided investment and are now paying the price.
Wombat3 said:
We're not the only club who could & would pay those numbers for those players - those numbers are therefore market values.
The only struggle with reality is down at WHL where they don't seem to understand that nobody worth having is coming for £100K a week any more and that its going to get very difficult to hang on to top players and expect them to stay for that kind of money (however obscene it may be in the real world).
Yet you still haven't prised Dier away from that club; I guess 100k is OK for some then? Or will the reason be that Mourinho 'doesn't want him any more', like it is with every other player that doesn't want to join?The only struggle with reality is down at WHL where they don't seem to understand that nobody worth having is coming for £100K a week any more and that its going to get very difficult to hang on to top players and expect them to stay for that kind of money (however obscene it may be in the real world).
The jiffle king said:
I'll come to the fans part , but these are not fans clubs, they are businesses, some of which are listed on the markets and a primary responsibility to the owner or shareholders. That in some cases is to make money and not to win trophies although you could argue that trophies should help revenues
I agree that most fans want glory but there are very few who can expect a trophy. Your team, arsenal, Chelsea, man city and Liverpool can all have their fans aim to win trophies. Others like my team (saints) live in hope that we can challenge and one year in 10 we might make a final.... and much as I would love this to change, money talks and our best players get sold (Bale, Walcott, the ox, Morgan, Shaw, lallana, clyne, chambers etc etc)
If you support Yeovi, Stockport, Preston, you aim for a cup run, promotion, or the lower leagues cup. It's different being a lower league team fan and although they might dream of the FA cup, it's unlikely
You're right in that all fans want trophies but for the vast majority of fans, trophies are sadly a dream, and most of the top clubs are not run for the fans, but the owners and fans are just the cash cow in driving profits.
I agree that most fans want glory but there are very few who can expect a trophy. Your team, arsenal, Chelsea, man city and Liverpool can all have their fans aim to win trophies. Others like my team (saints) live in hope that we can challenge and one year in 10 we might make a final.... and much as I would love this to change, money talks and our best players get sold (Bale, Walcott, the ox, Morgan, Shaw, lallana, clyne, chambers etc etc)
If you support Yeovi, Stockport, Preston, you aim for a cup run, promotion, or the lower leagues cup. It's different being a lower league team fan and although they might dream of the FA cup, it's unlikely
You're right in that all fans want trophies but for the vast majority of fans, trophies are sadly a dream, and most of the top clubs are not run for the fans, but the owners and fans are just the cash cow in driving profits.
Excellent post sir.
selym said:
Yet you still haven't prised Dier away from that club; I guess 100k is OK for some then? Or will the reason be that Mourinho 'doesn't want him any more', like it is with every other player that doesn't want to join?
Of course he wants him, just can't have him as he's not for sale.He doesn't even get in our strongest Xl neither & he's worth north of £50M !
Jose, put up or shut up.
Edited by Black can man on Tuesday 25th July 06:03
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