The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 12]

[joshcowin]

RedTrident said:

Flip Martian said:

jammy-git said:

I completely agree that he needs to be playing regularly to get his confidence up and getting the best out of him, but I don't think a loan is the answer.

If Klopp sees him as part of his plans then he needs to come up with a way to get him in the team more regularly, and not just bit-part substitute appearances every now and then.

This, I think. He has shown he can finish, really really well. From difficult angles too. He's not an N'Gog. Or even a Mellor, come to that. If he was a flop, he wouldn't have demonstrated what he can do - nor be the 3rd highest scorer in our team this season, despite having relatively few minutes. Consistency will be his problem. And Klopp's.

Origi though has been a flop. He cost the best part of 10 million and just hasn't pushed on, especially after his injury.

At least we agree he needs game time if he is to flourish. He's not going to get that here I think as is.

I personally think Klopp is just talking him up so we get the most money for him as possible.

Hes not a good enough player for us at this stage, we need to spend £40Mil+ for a young striker with the required skill level

[Flip Martian]

RedTrident said:

Origi though has been a flop. He cost the best part of 10 million and just hasn't pushed on, especially after his injury.

At least we agree he needs game time if he is to flourish. He's not going to get that here I think as is.

I personally think Klopp is just talking him up so we get the most money for him as possible.

Apologies, I didn't see your reply at all yesterday. Exhausted at the mo'... He's our 3rd highest scorer this season as I said - that doesn't equate to him being a flop. However, he hasn't pushed on, I agree. It comes down to if there are any known mitigating factors influencing that (and they can be sorted) and/or whether Klopp thinks he can still make him come good.

You might be right on your last point.

[London424]

Lalana out for a month after getting injured playing for England.

[jammy-git]

Flip Martian said:

Apologies, I didn't see your reply at all yesterday. Exhausted at the mo'... He's our 3rd highest scorer this season as I said - that doesn't equate to him being a flop. However, he hasn't pushed on, I agree. It comes down to if there are any known mitigating factors influencing that (and they can be sorted) and/or whether Klopp thinks he can still make him come good.

You might be right on your last point.

How much can we reasonably expect someone to push on given the bit-part role he's played?

[jammy-git]

London424 said:

Lalana out for a month after getting injured playing for England.

Push Coutinho into a midfield three and have a front three of Firmino, Mane and Origi?

[anonymous-user]

London424 said:

Lalana out for a month after getting injured playing for England.

Well worth the sacrifice given how exiting the break was.

[Flip Martian]

jammy-git said:

How much can we reasonably expect someone to push on given the bit-part role he's played?

Well quite, I know. But what's the answer? We could give him a run in the first team for 19 games without scoring, like we did Crouch 10 years ago - but these days everyone would be on his back endlessly which wouldn't help his confidence either.

[Flip Martian]

desolate said:

London424 said:

Lalana out for a month after getting injured playing for England.

Well worth the sacrifice given how exiting the break was.

Always seems to be us, this happens to. Coutinho and Firmino need to start performing now.

Anyone think this hampers our top 4 chances? I thought ours had gone anyway but this certainly puts the mockers on it unless others step up.

[m3sye]

Hendo is back so imagine him and can with Wijnaldum pushed further forward

[NRS]

Flip Martian said:

jammy-git said:

How much can we reasonably expect someone to push on given the bit-part role he's played?

Well quite, I know. But what's the answer? We could give him a run in the first team for 19 games without scoring, like we did Crouch 10 years ago - but these days everyone would be on his back endlessly which wouldn't help his confidence either.

I don't think we can say he is poor when he just randomly gets thrown on for a while. Very few strikers will do well in that situation. Ironically Sturridge was one of the few who could be out for a few games (injured) and then continue scoring when he came back into the team. If we buy anyone as a replacement they need game time, otherwise it is pointless buying them.

[type-r]

joshcowin said:

Hes not a good enough player for us at this stage, we need to spend £40Mil+ for a young striker with the required skill level

Well in the Evening Standard tonight, Arsenal have apparently slapped a £50m price tag on Sanchez. He is not young at 28 and oh, he wants to at least double the 130k a week he is on currently. Back to the drawing board then.

Also the other piece of news in there was Southampton are considering a bid for Sakho. His 3 clean sheets for Palace and helping them to 3 wins on the spin, has attracted interest (allegedly). With Van Dijk apparently already lined up by Chelsea, Southampton are on the lookout for a potential replacement!

Must be nearing the end of the season.

[Flip Martian]

NRS said:

I don't think we can say he is poor when he just randomly gets thrown on for a while. Very few strikers will do well in that situation. Ironically Sturridge was one of the few who could be out for a few games (injured) and then continue scoring when he came back into the team. If we buy anyone as a replacement they need game time, otherwise it is pointless buying them.

Sturridge WAS like that yes. Why can't Origi be? Players should take their chances when they get in the first team, that's always been the case. He seems to be invisible when he comes on sometimes.

[jammy-git]

Flip Martian said:

NRS said:

I don't think we can say he is poor when he just randomly gets thrown on for a while. Very few strikers will do well in that situation. Ironically Sturridge was one of the few who could be out for a few games (injured) and then continue scoring when he came back into the team. If we buy anyone as a replacement they need game time, otherwise it is pointless buying them.

Sturridge WAS like that yes. Why can't Origi be? Players should take their chances when they get in the first team, that's always been the case. He seems to be invisible when he comes on sometimes.

Because some players just aren't like that. They need playing time to get in the groove, get confidence, get match fit, whatever you want to call it. Owen I seem to remember always took a game or two to get back to being fully sharp.

[Flip Martian]

jammy-git said:

Because some players just aren't like that. They need playing time to get in the groove, get confidence, get match fit, whatever you want to call it. Owen I seem to remember always took a game or two to get back to being fully sharp.

Owen by the end was awful every time he came back. When he started he was like Sturridge used to be (but better). It was injuries that did for him, really.

So you don't think players should show what they can do straight away? Surely to be given any chance in the 1st team at any time they need to show something?

As I said a few posts back, Origi is a good player - I've also seen him come in and score great goals. For whatever reason he isn't having the same impact this season. I would love him to come good and think it would be a shame to sell him - but if we did that would be a sign that Klopp doesn't think he can cut it. I guess we'll see what happens.

[RedTrident]

Lallana out for a month is a huge blow. Hopefully we put Coutinho in the middle of a 4213.

Be interesting to see if Klopp plays Origi in a front 3 of Firmino Origi Firmino or whether he chooses to play a midfield 3 of Henderson Wij and Can.

[anonymous-user]

RedTrident said:

Be interesting to see if Klopp plays Origi in a front 3 of Firmino Origi Firmino

Klopp is God. Official.

[jammy-git]

Flip Martian said:

Owen by the end was awful every time he came back. When he started he was like Sturridge used to be (but better). It was injuries that did for him, really.

So you don't think players should show what they can do straight away? Surely to be given any chance in the 1st team at any time they need to show something?

As I said a few posts back, Origi is a good player - I've also seen him come in and score great goals. For whatever reason he isn't having the same impact this season. I would love him to come good and think it would be a shame to sell him - but if we did that would be a sign that Klopp doesn't think he can cut it. I guess we'll see what happens.

Oh I think they should, but I don't think some players can show their best until they're given a good run of games. Just look at Hernandez - a very average player at Utd but signs of promise, now has a better than 1 in 2 goals per game ratio at Leverkusen.

[m3sye]

Big kitty ahead

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/competing-in-the...

Anyone got subscription for full story?

[jammy-git]

m3sye said:

Big kitty ahead

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/competing-in-the...

Anyone got subscription for full story?

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/620s...

[Chris Stott]

jammy-git said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/620s...

If the spending commitments are accurate, no one could criticise the owners, but the article captures the real challenge - we just don't have the recent success as some of our competitors and just aren't as attractive a choice.

Time to see how persuasive and inspiring Klopp can be.