The Official Chelsea Thread [Vol 3]
Discussion
Wombat3 said:
Covered on MoTD. Law seems to be that if a handball prevents a goal then its a red.
Deliberate or not doesn't seem to figure.
Harsh in this instance & the law needs clarifying/ fixing. It'll be appealed if there is any wriggle room. If it's not appealed then the ref got it right.
How is a referee supposed to get inside peoples’ minds to determine whether an action is deliberate or not? It is the act itself that has to be judged.Deliberate or not doesn't seem to figure.
Harsh in this instance & the law needs clarifying/ fixing. It'll be appealed if there is any wriggle room. If it's not appealed then the ref got it right.
I am a Hammer but I watched this game with interest, and I was more impressed with Chelsea. However, I believe that the ball was flicked away from the goal by a movement of the player’s arm, it had to be a penalty, and a red card must follow.
Roofless Toothless said:
Wombat3 said:
Covered on MoTD. Law seems to be that if a handball prevents a goal then its a red.
Deliberate or not doesn't seem to figure.
Harsh in this instance & the law needs clarifying/ fixing. It'll be appealed if there is any wriggle room. If it's not appealed then the ref got it right.
How is a referee supposed to get inside peoples’ minds to determine whether an action is deliberate or not? It is the act itself that has to be judged.Deliberate or not doesn't seem to figure.
Harsh in this instance & the law needs clarifying/ fixing. It'll be appealed if there is any wriggle room. If it's not appealed then the ref got it right.
I am a Hammer but I watched this game with interest, and I was more impressed with Chelsea. However, I believe that the ball was flicked away from the goal by a movement of the player’s arm, it had to be a penalty, and a red card must follow.
No real complaints about the pen and the red though I'm pretty sure the only impact on his arm was before any reflexive movement so the deflection off his thigh mitigates that.
If Alonso just lets Mendy catch it there's no problem anyway.
Thought Liverpool were fully fired up from the off, bit too much IMO and clearly they are back but Chelsea looked likely to go further ahead eventually - perfectly set up to pick them off on the break.
And so it ends up being the best defence in the league doing their thing- against an increasingly ineffective LFC attack.
Lukaku is not there for this type of game, he's there to unlock low block defences and finish the myriad of chances we create. Though he had the best chance of the second half which he couldn't take.
A point at Anfield is all good- we look very strong
If Alonso just lets Mendy catch it there's no problem anyway.
Thought Liverpool were fully fired up from the off, bit too much IMO and clearly they are back but Chelsea looked likely to go further ahead eventually - perfectly set up to pick them off on the break.
And so it ends up being the best defence in the league doing their thing- against an increasingly ineffective LFC attack.
Lukaku is not there for this type of game, he's there to unlock low block defences and finish the myriad of chances we create. Though he had the best chance of the second half which he couldn't take.
A point at Anfield is all good- we look very strong
Wombat3 said:
It'll be appealed if there is any wriggle room. If it's not appealed then the ref got it right.
If the club appeals, it has 2 possible arguments.1. It wasn't a penalty.
2. It was a penalty, but the handball didn't deny a clear goal scoring opportunity.
I'm not sure which of those 2 arguments they would run with, given they are both clearly ridiculous.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Wombat3 said:
It'll be appealed if there is any wriggle room. If it's not appealed then the ref got it right.
If the club appeals, it has 2 possible arguments.1. It wasn't a penalty.
2. It was a penalty, but the handball didn't deny a clear goal scoring opportunity.
I'm not sure which of those 2 arguments they would run with, given they are both clearly ridiculous.
Take the point - move on .
GT03ROB said:
Fair call as penalty…but red card do me a favour
Sorry this ref has form for appalling decisions…. He should never ref a Chelsea game again… he’s bent or incompetent
Have you changed your mind on this now the law has been explained clearly on tv and this thread? Perhaps he just knew the law and you didn't.Sorry this ref has form for appalling decisions…. He should never ref a Chelsea game again… he’s bent or incompetent
Also, people are entitled to call refs incompetent. It's a matter of opinion. But to call or suggest a ref is bent is taking it to a different level, and you should really have some evidence to back it up. And not just a list of decisions you don't like, but photos of him accepting a wodge of cash from a Liverpool official prior to kick off, or similar.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Have you changed your mind on this now the law has been explained clearly on tv and this thread? Perhaps he just knew the law and you didn't.
Also, people are entitled to call refs incompetent. It's a matter of opinion. But to call or suggest a ref is bent is taking it to a different level, and you should really have some evidence to back it up. And not just a list of decisions you don't like, but photos of him accepting a wodge of cash from a Liverpool official prior to kick off, or similar.
Yes i was not fully up to speed with the current rules. It’s clear a deliberate handball that denies a goal scoring opportunity is a red. This leads us to the first part of that sentence. Also, people are entitled to call refs incompetent. It's a matter of opinion. But to call or suggest a ref is bent is taking it to a different level, and you should really have some evidence to back it up. And not just a list of decisions you don't like, but photos of him accepting a wodge of cash from a Liverpool official prior to kick off, or similar.
Now if Taylor saw it in real time he clearly didn’t consider it as deliberate, with VAR the still he saw & speed he took to review he could not have taken in enough information to change that view. If he didn’t see it in real time he also could not have seen enough in the couple of seconds to form a view as to if it was deliberate or not.
It would be good if referees were accountable for their decisions. & were forced to explain via after match interviews, but I doubt that will happen.
Bent may be a strong word, which in the heat may not be appropriate. His competence however is up for question & whether that competence is influenced in any way. He has got too many decisions plain wrong in Chelsea games, including 2 FA Cup finals. hopefully its just bad luck. All referees make mistakes & its entirely understandable that they will.
GT03ROB said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Have you changed your mind on this now the law has been explained clearly on tv and this thread? Perhaps he just knew the law and you didn't.
Also, people are entitled to call refs incompetent. It's a matter of opinion. But to call or suggest a ref is bent is taking it to a different level, and you should really have some evidence to back it up. And not just a list of decisions you don't like, but photos of him accepting a wodge of cash from a Liverpool official prior to kick off, or similar.
Yes i was not fully up to speed with the current rules. It’s clear a deliberate handball that denies a goal scoring opportunity is a red. This leads us to the first part of that sentence. Also, people are entitled to call refs incompetent. It's a matter of opinion. But to call or suggest a ref is bent is taking it to a different level, and you should really have some evidence to back it up. And not just a list of decisions you don't like, but photos of him accepting a wodge of cash from a Liverpool official prior to kick off, or similar.
Now if Taylor saw it in real time he clearly didn’t consider it as deliberate, with VAR the still he saw & speed he took to review he could not have taken in enough information to change that view. If he didn’t see it in real time he also could not have seen enough in the couple of seconds to form a view as to if it was deliberate or not.
It would be good if referees were accountable for their decisions. & were forced to explain via after match interviews, but I doubt that will happen.
Bent may be a strong word, which in the heat may not be appropriate. His competence however is up for question & whether that competence is influenced in any way. He has got too many decisions plain wrong in Chelsea games, including 2 FA Cup finals. hopefully its just bad luck. All referees make mistakes & its entirely understandable that they will.
I'm glad you've withdrawn "bent". Both my kids were referees, mainly in youth football. Parents used to stand on the touchline alongside me, unaware I was the dad, and slag them off for being useless, constantly. It was frustrating, because most of the time they were slagging them off for giving the correct decisions, because the parents didn't know what the laws were. Simple things, like screaming for offside from a throw in, and then berating my lads for not giving it. But most of the time, I just sucked it up. Sometimes they made, in my opinion, the wrong call. As you say, refs make mistakes.
But now and then, you'd get some loudmouth scumbag, as often a mum as a dad, accusing them of being cheats, or being bent. Occasionally I'd sidle up to them at HT or the end, and say I heard them calling the ref bent, and ask them what they saw? Like the ref taking a bribe or something. But they'd come back with "that was never a corner" or some other crap. So I'd press them, saying perhaps the ref was useless, or incompetent, but they said "bent". So what evidence did they have? How much is the going rate to bribe a ref in a Division 3 West London u/14's game? Eventually it would begin to sink in, and they'd agree that the ref probably wasn't bent, but was just f
king useless . As opposed to a 15 y/o lad just doing his best. Some of the parents were real charmers! Anyway, I'd see some very embarrassed parents, as they saw me and the ref leave together after the game and walk back to the car park.
Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Sunday 29th August 16:45
GT03ROB said:
Yes i was not fully up to speed with the current rules. It’s clear a deliberate handball that denies a goal scoring opportunity is a red. This leads us to the first part of that sentence.
Now if Taylor saw it in real time he clearly didn’t consider it as deliberate, with VAR the still he saw & speed he took to review he could not have taken in enough information to change that view. If he didn’t see it in real time he also could not have seen enough in the couple of seconds to form a view as to if it was deliberate or not.
It would be good if referees were accountable for their decisions. & were forced to explain via after match interviews, but I doubt that will happen.
Bent may be a strong word, which in the heat may not be appropriate. His competence however is up for question & whether that competence is influenced in any way. He has got too many decisions plain wrong in Chelsea games, including 2 FA Cup finals. hopefully its just bad luck. All referees make mistakes & its entirely understandable that they will.
Yes, but he clearly lost control and gave cards for fun, because he is not able to deal with the pressure. Now if Taylor saw it in real time he clearly didn’t consider it as deliberate, with VAR the still he saw & speed he took to review he could not have taken in enough information to change that view. If he didn’t see it in real time he also could not have seen enough in the couple of seconds to form a view as to if it was deliberate or not.
It would be good if referees were accountable for their decisions. & were forced to explain via after match interviews, but I doubt that will happen.
Bent may be a strong word, which in the heat may not be appropriate. His competence however is up for question & whether that competence is influenced in any way. He has got too many decisions plain wrong in Chelsea games, including 2 FA Cup finals. hopefully its just bad luck. All referees make mistakes & its entirely understandable that they will.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I'm not sure you still understand the situation. "Deliberate" is a red herring. It doesn't have to be deliberate. If it's a pen, which you agreed it was, if it denied a clear and obvious goal scoring opportunity, then it's a red card.
Again maybe I’m misunderstanding the rules. Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Sunday 29th August 16:45
Deliberate is not a red herring as it is specifically used in the rules to define if something can be handball.
Only once you have established that it is handball, IE deliberate, does the penalty & red card punishment of denying a goal scoring opportunity come into play.
The FA have also clarified that a deflection of another part of your body is also not to be considered handball, unless your hand/arm are in unnatural positions.
Taylor never gave himself the opportunity to establish any of this.
Edited by GT03ROB on Sunday 29th August 17:16
ddom said:
GT03ROB said:
Yes i was not fully up to speed with the current rules. It’s clear a deliberate handball that denies a goal scoring opportunity is a red. This leads us to the first part of that sentence.
Now if Taylor saw it in real time he clearly didn’t consider it as deliberate, with VAR the still he saw & speed he took to review he could not have taken in enough information to change that view. If he didn’t see it in real time he also could not have seen enough in the couple of seconds to form a view as to if it was deliberate or not.
It would be good if referees were accountable for their decisions. & were forced to explain via after match interviews, but I doubt that will happen.
Bent may be a strong word, which in the heat may not be appropriate. His competence however is up for question & whether that competence is influenced in any way. He has got too many decisions plain wrong in Chelsea games, including 2 FA Cup finals. hopefully its just bad luck. All referees make mistakes & its entirely understandable that they will.
Yes, but he clearly lost control and gave cards for fun, because he is not able to deal with the pressure. Now if Taylor saw it in real time he clearly didn’t consider it as deliberate, with VAR the still he saw & speed he took to review he could not have taken in enough information to change that view. If he didn’t see it in real time he also could not have seen enough in the couple of seconds to form a view as to if it was deliberate or not.
It would be good if referees were accountable for their decisions. & were forced to explain via after match interviews, but I doubt that will happen.
Bent may be a strong word, which in the heat may not be appropriate. His competence however is up for question & whether that competence is influenced in any way. He has got too many decisions plain wrong in Chelsea games, including 2 FA Cup finals. hopefully its just bad luck. All referees make mistakes & its entirely understandable that they will.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I'd say he didn't give enough cards. Reece red card, correct. Rudiger booked for scuffing the penalty spot - correct. Mendy booked for dissent, almost certainly correct. Salah should have been booked for kicking the ball away and Fabinho could have been booked 2 or 3 times.
I'd say. No class. You are far to blinkered.Riff Raff said:
trackdemon said:
What a difference a quality, powerful striker makes....
Yeah. But…. Villa’s half. As the commentator said ‘it’s the Edouard Mendy show’.
)Dreadful abuse of John McGinn on Saturday
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/13/c...
Lots of clubs seem to have these sectarian morons. I don't suppose the bloke realises for a second that Romelu Lukaku is a devout Catholic.
Absolutely as thick as mince.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/13/c...
Lots of clubs seem to have these sectarian morons. I don't suppose the bloke realises for a second that Romelu Lukaku is a devout Catholic.
Absolutely as thick as mince.
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