The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 13]

[type-r]

The defensive problems are exacerbated by the fact we have two inexperienced LB/RB playing. You expect these guys to make mistakes; if we had two very strong, commanding CB's and a top keeper, we would be able to carry that inexperience out wide and allow them to develop.

I agree about Ward and Gomez. Throw them in for the league games until Jan and see how they get on. Expect mistakes but surely they deserve their chance and can't be any worse than what we have. Klopp however will almost certainly go for his boy Karius and his other German signing, Klavan.

[Flip Martian]

There's a lot of hysteria in here today. Blaming Mings for all 4 goals is possibly stretching things rather.

I'm struggling to remember a goalie we've had who didn't make silly mistakes sometimes. Reina? He did. Dudek? Plenty, hence us getting Reina even after his 2005 CL final heroics. James? No comment. Grobs? Plenty - he had a nightmare first season and still was a bit eccentric. I'm old enough to remember Clem but not quite old enough to remember how many balls ups he made. Less tv coverage in those days of course but I bet those who went week in and week out would remember a few errors there too.

I'm not defending Mings by any stretch. If we can get better, we should. In every position. But he's been practically faultless for most of this year. However, some here have never moved from "he is st and should go" position frm last year and couldn't wait to find an excuse to trot that out again. At the moment he's our #1 keeper.

From the highlights I saw over and over -

1st goal - Lovren left the ball for Kane to run onto...why?!! Mings is then exposed, rushes out but doesn't get anywhere near the ball. Clearly could have done better but Kane is a top quality striker and has done that to more keepers than we can count.

The 2nd - Lovren was clearly at fault and little Mings could do with Song's shot.

3rd - Matip, awful header. No-one would blame Mings for that one.

4th - Mings fault, awful flap, very David James like. Maybe HIS confidence was shot by then from playing behind that defence, no idea.

[jammy-git]

Flip Martian said:

1st goal - Lovren left the ball for Kane to run onto...why?!! Mings is then exposed, rushes out but doesn't get anywhere near the ball. Clearly could have done better but Kane is a top quality striker and has done that to more keepers than we can count.

The 2nd - Lovren was clearly at fault and little Mings could do with Song's shot.

3rd - Matip, awful header. No-one would blame Mings for that one.

4th - Mings fault, awful flap, very David James like. Maybe HIS confidence was shot by then from playing behind that defence, no idea.

I feel we were pushed up too high for the whole game.

So Lovren leaves Kane to run on to the ball because from Lovren's POV he's offside. Gomez at RB was playing him on. Because the whole team is pushed up so high there is plenty of space in behind to run into, causing Migs to have to come out and "deal" with the threat.

2nd - As you say, Lovren completely at fault, but Matip should have come straight across once Lovren misses it.

3. I don't think Matip does a great deal wrong here, though he should be heading more over to the wings than back into the centre. No one picking up Alli on the edge of the area though, criminal.

4 - Mings at fault for not claiming the first ball, but for the second ball no one was marking Kane in the area. Again, criminal.

[epom]

There's an old saying, do what you always do and you'll get what you always get. We have been defending very very poorly for quite some time now.

[anonymous-user]

Flip

I sort of agree with what you are saying but in the last two matches we have seen two great keeper pulling of saves that would have had mingolet plucking it out of the net 100% of the time.

Anyway nothing to be done. Will be massively pissed off if cash not spent on these issues by the end of next summer. Ideally jan

[Ructions]

desolate said:

Flip

I sort of agree with what you are saying but in the last two matches we have seen two great keeper pulling of saves that would have had mingolet plucking it out of the net 100% of the time.

Anyway nothing to be done. Will be massively pissed off if cash not spent on these issues by the end of next summer. Ideally jan

Were we not saying the same thing 12 months ago?

[anonymous-user]

Ructions said:

Were we not saying the same thing 12 months ago?

Yes

I'll just be a bit more pissed off than I was. Other people's level of pissed offness may vary!

[NRS]

desolate said:

Flip

I sort of agree with what you are saying but in the last two matches we have seen two great keeper pulling of saves that would have had
mingolet plucking it out of the net 100% of the time.

I'm not completely convinced - Mings is a good shot stopper, so he might have done the same as them. The issue is getting rid of the ball in a crowded area, or when to come out and punch it/catch it. It's not a surprise many goals we concede are the second ball in after a set piece into a crowded area.

[anonymous-user]

Anyway all four goal were a load of bks yesterday.

However I do still get the feeling that they would have dicked us even without the help we gave them.

[Adam B]

NRS said:

This is why I asked RT what the difference was between Rodgers and Klopp was.

Klopp doesn't talk irritating David Brent shyte
Klopp seems to be able attract a higher calibre of player

[jammy-git]

desolate said:

Anyway all four goal were a load of bks yesterday.

However I do still get the feeling that they would have dicked us even without the help we gave them.

Sad to say they completely commanded the game yesterday. Aside from a couple of decent runs in behind by Salah and Ox, and Coutinhos shot, they were happy to let us just pass it around the edge of their third and whip in the occasional cross which never resulted if anything anyway.

[Flip Martian]

Ultimately it was the first time Spurs beat us since 2012 - and they deserved to. We move on and hope things get better. 2 defeats. Just unfortunate they've been heavy ones.

[jammy-git]

Yes. Considering Klopp's record against the top six was one of the best bits about him, we've not done well this season...

[Flip Martian]

jammy-git said:

Yes. Considering Klopp's record against the top six was one of the best bits about him, we've not done well this season...

Up front hasn't been firing very consistently at all. Which leaves us in dire straits (especially against good teams) when that's what we've relied on for so long. Still early days this season. Not panicking, just very fed up.

[footnote]

Adam B said:

NRS said:

This is why I asked RT what the difference was between Rodgers and Klopp was.

Klopp doesn't talk irritating David Brent shyte
Klopp seems to be able attract a higher calibre of player

But both Klopp and Rogers defend the indefensible - it comes down to the players.

Sure, it's not ideal for a manager to go on TV and rip into the players but the alternative is you do what Klopp and Rogers do/did and take all the blame. Go on TV and say it's 100% my fault.

Is it?

Rogers is clearly well able to manage good players - Celtic shows that.

Klopp presumably would be the same - given a good team.

He's had two years to sift through the detritus of the Rogers era but somehow, there's still a lot of dead wood floating around. Why?

Lots of people said those players weren't the ones Togers wanted so maybe he's not to blame

It doesn't make sense that Klopp arrives, takes a look at the players and thinks, half of them are makeweights but I'll keep them all and see what I can make of them.

The only conclusion I can reach is that the executive/owners say to any new manager - we've spent a lot on this team, they're not great and some of them have been depreciating faster than a Lada in Monte Carlo, but we can't shift them for even a fraction of what we've paid, and we don't want to swallow the loss - so we've got to make them look better.

What can you do for us Jurgen? Can you make some sort of a team and at the same time make our st smell of roses so we can sell it on?

Maybe Jurgen says - I'll give it a go.

I wish he'd just come out and say that that's what he's doing.

Because if he doesn't say what the heart of the matter is, why he's got a larder full of beefburgers when the whole family is going vegetarian, if he doesn't pinpoint the problem, people will just conclude that he doesn't know what the problem is, that he's as daft as everybody said Rogers was, that he had his chances and failed and that's him done - another old tyre on the Liverpool bonfire of mystery.

There's got to be more to it than that.

Fair enough - you can't put brains in statues - but why would you keep the statues, if you genuinely had a choice and given Klopp's no more an idiot than Rogers - I can only conclude he has no choice.

[jammy-git]

Please learn the difference between a sentence and a paragraph.

Also, no coach/manager is completely up front with the press/fans. Most won't come out and rip into a player because it rarely helps improve that player - at least Klopp doesn't come across as that type of manager.

[anonymous-user]

footnote said:

Fair enough - you can't put brains in statues - but why would you keep the statues, if you genuinely had a choice and given Klopp's no more an idiot than Rogers - I can only conclude he has no choice.

It's difficult to disagree with alot of your post BUT I can't believe that Klopp would put up with not being supported by the owners. I just don't think he is the type of bloke who would put up with that and I don't think he would be shy of saying if he didn't think he was getting the support he wanted.

My take on it is that he thought he could work some magic on a few players had it hasn't happened. That's why he looked so despondent on Sunday.

If I am wrong then sobeit and lay into him and into FSG.

[Adam B]

footnote said:

The only conclusion I can reach is that the executive/owners say to any new manager - we've spent a lot on this team, they're not great and some of them have been depreciating faster than a Lada in Monte Carlo, but we can't shift them for even a fraction of what we've paid, and we don't want to swallow the loss - so we've got to make them look better.

What can you do for us Jurgen? Can you make some sort of a team and at the same time make our st smell of roses so we can sell it on?

Maybe Jurgen says - I'll give it a go.

I wish he'd just come out and say that that's what he's doing.

You think JK should come out on MOTD/Sky and say I have a turd, FSG want me to polish it and sell it on as silver !?!?!?

[anonymous-user]

Adam B said:

You think JK should come out on MOTD/Sky and say I have a turd, FSG want me to polish it and sell it on as silver !?!?!?

I don't think he would put it that way, I just don't think he would accept no bring left exposed.
It's his reputation and he would want to be responsible for that.

[footnote]

desolate said:

footnote said:

Fair enough - you can't put brains in statues - but why would you keep the statues, if you genuinely had a choice and given Klopp's no more an idiot than Rogers - I can only conclude he has no choice.

It's difficult to disagree with alot of your post BUT I can't believe that Klopp would put up with not being supported by the owners. I just don't think he is the type of bloke who would put up with that and I don't think he would be shy of saying if he didn't think he was getting the support he wanted.

My take on it is that he thought he could work some magic on a few players had it hasn't happened. That's why he looked so despondent on Sunday.

If I am wrong then sobeit and lay into him and into FSG.

I keep looking for a viable alternative. To try and make what's happening appear rational and reasonable. I want it to start making sense. Because it should make sense. If you've got poor players you make them better if you can or you move them on. If you've got the money you buy better players. If you haven't then you don't.
I'd like to believe that all of that is in Klopp's control but logic makes me doubt it - because he's making himself look bad and eventually most people will try to maintain their own dignity and self-respect. He's losing his reputation while seeming to try and maintain the illusion that this is what he wants. That the Liverpool team he has - is the one he would choose to have. Even keeping money in the bank rather than buy 'lesser' players. (what could be lesser than some of ours?).

I can't help but doubt whether he actually has the money at all. Or the control of the process. But only he and the owners know the terms under which both Rogers and Klopp work. He's not going to say I signed up for a job where I have my hands tied behind my back. But maybe that's the truth of it. It's still a great challenge and everybody has an ego and thinks they can triumph where others have failed but maybe this is his Waterloo.

Will we ever get to the truth? I doubt it, but sometimes a big cigar is just a big cigar, and sometimes something that looks like a duck isn't a duck even when it quacks.

Most commentators/pundits think it doesn't make sense. People on here can't make any sense of it and the reason for that is simply that - it doesn't make sense - unless... the obvious... it's always money.

I read somewhere that the club had recently been valued at a billion - was that asking someone to make an offer?