The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 13]
Discussion
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/the-game/id-rat...
Secondly, arguments with Achterberg, soon to see the back of him?
The Times said:
Jürgen Klopp said that he would rather end his managerial career than instruct his players to indulge in gamesmanship to see out a match.
Liverpool conceded in the 85th minute at a time when it appeared that they were trying to make a substitution, with Klopp claiming that Willian would not have scored had his switch, and a change to a five-man defence, taken place.
Klopp blamed Michael Oliver, the referee, for the delay to Adam Lallana’s arrival but it emerged that Liverpool were asked six times whether they wanted to make the substitution. The failure to do so led to an argument among the club’s backroom staff.
The late concession also led to questions about his side’s inability to hold on to a lead and manage a game, but Klopp said that he would never look for his team to slow a match down by trying to win free kicks when they are ahead.
“The day when somebody thinks like this [in my teams], with not being a proper sportsman and being fair, then I stop,” he said. “If it’s not OK any more that we try our best, then it is something wrong.”
Lallana was stripped to make his comeback after almost four months out with a thigh injury at the same time that Willian was sent on by Chelsea.
Klopp wanted to switch to a five-man defence to protect a 1-0 advantage, yet when he gave the England midfielder his final instructions a delay followed. Liverpool then took a throw-in and were never in control of the ball again until Willian’s fortuitous effort beat Simon Mignolet to equalise.
Klopp claimed that Ragnar Klavan would have been in position to clear Willian’s strike. However, it is understood that Craig Pawson, the fourth official, repeatedly asked Liverpool’s backroom staff if they were ready to bring on Lallana.
The mix-up prompted a heated response from Zeljko Buvac, the Liverpool assistant manager, who was furious with John Achterberg, the goalkeeping coach, at the failure to get Lallana on to the pitch.
And he exploded in another rage when Chelsea equalised two minutes later and refused to speak to Achterberg, who liaises with the fourth official over substitutions, when Liverpool made a double change soon after, with Lallana and Sadio Mané eventually thrown on.
Liverpool’s inability to protect the advantage gleaned through Mohamed Salah’s 15th club goal of the season in the 65th minute followed on from their capitulation in the Champions League when they drew 3-3 with Seville last Tuesday having led 3-0.
Couple of interesting things to come from this article - one, is Klopp being naive to not want to indulge in gamesmanship to kill a game?Liverpool conceded in the 85th minute at a time when it appeared that they were trying to make a substitution, with Klopp claiming that Willian would not have scored had his switch, and a change to a five-man defence, taken place.
Klopp blamed Michael Oliver, the referee, for the delay to Adam Lallana’s arrival but it emerged that Liverpool were asked six times whether they wanted to make the substitution. The failure to do so led to an argument among the club’s backroom staff.
The late concession also led to questions about his side’s inability to hold on to a lead and manage a game, but Klopp said that he would never look for his team to slow a match down by trying to win free kicks when they are ahead.
“The day when somebody thinks like this [in my teams], with not being a proper sportsman and being fair, then I stop,” he said. “If it’s not OK any more that we try our best, then it is something wrong.”
Lallana was stripped to make his comeback after almost four months out with a thigh injury at the same time that Willian was sent on by Chelsea.
Klopp wanted to switch to a five-man defence to protect a 1-0 advantage, yet when he gave the England midfielder his final instructions a delay followed. Liverpool then took a throw-in and were never in control of the ball again until Willian’s fortuitous effort beat Simon Mignolet to equalise.
Klopp claimed that Ragnar Klavan would have been in position to clear Willian’s strike. However, it is understood that Craig Pawson, the fourth official, repeatedly asked Liverpool’s backroom staff if they were ready to bring on Lallana.
The mix-up prompted a heated response from Zeljko Buvac, the Liverpool assistant manager, who was furious with John Achterberg, the goalkeeping coach, at the failure to get Lallana on to the pitch.
And he exploded in another rage when Chelsea equalised two minutes later and refused to speak to Achterberg, who liaises with the fourth official over substitutions, when Liverpool made a double change soon after, with Lallana and Sadio Mané eventually thrown on.
Liverpool’s inability to protect the advantage gleaned through Mohamed Salah’s 15th club goal of the season in the 65th minute followed on from their capitulation in the Champions League when they drew 3-3 with Seville last Tuesday having led 3-0.
Secondly, arguments with Achterberg, soon to see the back of him?
I wouldn't say naive. I think Klopp wants to play football in the right way and in the right spirit. I agree with him. I have always hated when players roll around on the ground feigning injuries on the slightest of contacts. I'd rather win a football match the right way, rather than trying to slow the game down through cheating. Bringing on subs as a means of tactically slowing down the game I would be ok with. Same with changing to 5 at the back. Holding on to the ball would be one way rather than just simply handing the ball back to the opposition. Trouble is we lack a calm presence and leadership at the back.
Definitely felt like a loss to me. It's got be one of the first premier league games I thought the defence actually looked quite good, few shaky moments but nothing too bad. Even Mings had a decent game BUT he was at fault. If a keeper gets lobbed from that distance then it's the keepers fault, stay around the line and won't get caught out, simples.
Team selection was poor imo. OK we've got a mid-week game but if they're tired for the next game then play someone else. You should always play your strongest...especially against strong sides. Awful decisions regarding the substitutions again.
I like Moreno and think he's actually a good player for us but why is Robertson not playing? From what I've seen he's easily the best man for role.
Individual mistakes on the pitch can't be helped (kind of) but there is no excuse for poor planning/substations. Between that and poor goalkeeper positioning it has cost us 2 points.
Hoping for an easy mid-week win though. Stoke's defence looks bad.
Team selection was poor imo. OK we've got a mid-week game but if they're tired for the next game then play someone else. You should always play your strongest...especially against strong sides. Awful decisions regarding the substitutions again.
I like Moreno and think he's actually a good player for us but why is Robertson not playing? From what I've seen he's easily the best man for role.
Individual mistakes on the pitch can't be helped (kind of) but there is no excuse for poor planning/substations. Between that and poor goalkeeper positioning it has cost us 2 points.
Hoping for an easy mid-week win though. Stoke's defence looks bad.
Cbull said:
Definitely felt like a loss to me. It's got be one of the first premier league games I thought the defence actually looked quite good, few shaky moments but nothing too bad. Even Mings had a decent game BUT he was at fault. If a keeper gets lobbed from that distance then it's the keepers fault, stay around the line and won't get caught out, simples.
Team selection was poor imo. OK we've got a mid-week game but if they're tired for the next game then play someone else. You should always play your strongest...especially against strong sides. Awful decisions regarding the substitutions again.
I like Moreno and think he's actually a good player for us but why is Robertson not playing? From what I've seen he's easily the best man for role.
Individual mistakes on the pitch can't be helped (kind of) but there is no excuse for poor planning/substations. Between that and poor goalkeeper positioning it has cost us 2 points.
Hoping for an easy mid-week win though. Stoke's defence looks bad.
Sorry but mings is not at fault, Willian didn't even shoot at goal rather crossed it in and mings set up correctly for the cross. If he had stayed on the line and the cross went as planned you would be moaning about mings not coming out. Its easy to criticise in hindsight but the goal was a fluke that no one is responsible for.Team selection was poor imo. OK we've got a mid-week game but if they're tired for the next game then play someone else. You should always play your strongest...especially against strong sides. Awful decisions regarding the substitutions again.
I like Moreno and think he's actually a good player for us but why is Robertson not playing? From what I've seen he's easily the best man for role.
Individual mistakes on the pitch can't be helped (kind of) but there is no excuse for poor planning/substations. Between that and poor goalkeeper positioning it has cost us 2 points.
Hoping for an easy mid-week win though. Stoke's defence looks bad.
'Awful decisions regarding the subs' - what would you have done that would have 100% secured us a goal? Cant stand this!
Edited by joshcowin on Monday 27th November 11:21
joshcowin said:
Sorry but mings is not at fault, Willian didn't even shoot at goal rather crossed it in and mings set up correctly for the cross. If he had stayed on the line and the cross went as planned you would be moaning about mings not coming out. Its easy to criticise in hindsight but the goal was a fluke that no one is responsible for.
'Awful decisions regarding the subs' - what would you have done that would have 100% secured us a goal? Cant stand this!
x2 89 minute subs plus 1 earlier sub leaving us with no named striker is exactly what I wouldn't have done that's for sure.'Awful decisions regarding the subs' - what would you have done that would have 100% secured us a goal? Cant stand this!
Edited by joshcowin on Monday 27th November 11:21
How did he set up correctly for a cross? between Willian and the first post off the line is not the correct position to line up for a cross. You're right though, it's easy to judge from the couch, I did say he had a decent game, all I'm saying is he was too far off the line unnecessarily and seems to have cost us.
m3sye said:
Klopp watches Moreno and Robertson every single day and chooses one over the other ...surely a reason behind it?
True. Often we see players in the line up that probably shouldn't be there. Got to be more to it than meets the eye. In all honestly I'm baffled as to why Milner has lost his place. I always remember Rafa (I think) refering to Luis Garica as a lazy trainer but couldn't deny that when it came to pitch time that he performed. So he played him...and rightly so.Klopp said that he got to the end of last season and had a meeting with Moreno and said they reviewed the season and admitted that he'd not used him enough. Since Milner doesn't want to play there any way it makes sense that Klopp is using Moreno now instead. Up until the Sevilla game, no one had an issue with this.
And lets be honest Milner has played CM for us and had 1 good game in a weak game (cant remember which) bar that the game has pretty much just played past him in his favourite position...
we are desperate for Kieta and 1 more top top CM..... id say that is more important than LB or CB tbh right now....
we are desperate for Kieta and 1 more top top CM..... id say that is more important than LB or CB tbh right now....
m3sye said:
we are desperate for Kieta and 1 more top top CM..... id say that is more important than LB or CB tbh right now....
I was having the same discusssion with a mate whilst we watched the CL game in the week. Kieta + a top quality (defensive) CM would make a huge difference to us going forward, and in defense.
Assuming we can keep Coutinho, this does rather question what role Henderson/Gini/Can/Lalana have as 1st team players.
Chris Stott said:
I was having the same discusssion with a mate whilst we watched the CL game in the week.
Kieta + a top quality (defensive) CM would make a huge difference to us going forward, and in defense.
Assuming we can keep Coutinho, this does rather question what role Henderson/Gini/Can/Lalana have as 1st team players.
I am not sure he has to be totally defensive minded, someone with quality on the ball would also help i.e Alonso - he was not a Masch type player but he could cover the holes , most importantly when he was on the ball he made things happen..Kieta + a top quality (defensive) CM would make a huge difference to us going forward, and in defense.
Assuming we can keep Coutinho, this does rather question what role Henderson/Gini/Can/Lalana have as 1st team players.
m3sye said:
I am not sure he has to be totally defensive minded, someone with quality on the ball would also help i.e Alonso - he was not a Masch type player but he could cover the holes , most importantly when he was on the ball he made things happen..
It's why I put the defensive bit in brackets... not an out and out DM, but we do need someone who can sit a bit more and help cover when everyone is piling forward... If we could just clone Alonso 
jammy-git said:
Klopp said that he got to the end of last season and had a meeting with Moreno and said they reviewed the season and admitted that he'd not used him enough. Since Milner doesn't want to play there any way it makes sense that Klopp is using Moreno now instead. Up until the Sevilla game, no one had an issue with this.
Quite an insight thanks. Never knew that but it would explain why thats for sure.Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff