The Official Manchester United Thread [vol 7]

[franki68]

Adam B said:

franki68 said:

I read an article s few weeks ago about jose’s Signings,according to which most of the signings were his 3rd or 4th choice for that position with the board unwilling to sanction the funds needed to get his main target in each purchase.

I think your board are right to say enough is enough, they have given JM over £400m and backed him on big purchases - I can imagine his list of 4 forwards being:
Messi
Ronaldo
Neymar
Lukaku

And him grumbling he got number 4

Moyes,lvg,jose all not doing a good job ,there is only one constant in that equation and that’s the board and owners .

[ORD]

franki68 said:

Moyes,lvg,jose all not doing a good job ,there is only one constant in that equation and that’s the board and owners .

I don't think that's fair. All those managers were given money and plenty of time. Moyes is a simply awful manager. LvG is stuck in the 1990s. Jose is also, in my view, a relic.

[Gavia]

franki68 said:

Moyes,lvg,jose all not doing a good job ,there is only one constant in that equation and that’s the board and owners .

Or, it’s the fact that all three managers have taken an overly cautious and negative approach to their chance to manage United. Maybe, that’s the Board’s fault for giving them stupid contracts demanding CL football and rewarding them for it, or maybe it’s not, maybe it’s just the manager isn’t doing his job properly.

Being a manager is a lot more than buying a group of players. There’s the development work, the style of play, the need to adapt quickly when things aren’t working and so on. I’m just seeing everything being blamed on not buying another umpteen players, which isn’t good enough.

[200Plus Club]

Whatever happens there will be ups and downs and I'll stick by the team. Been here before !
One loss does not make the season, and it's a collective issue starting with the current players need to up their game. Style or not the same players beat all the other top teams in the prem last season with no game plan or tactics any different !!!

[Black can man]

The TV deal money has made he Premier League a much more even keel , Gone are the days when United could just blow the lesser teams out of the water with their financial clout , When would anyone think they’d see the day when the likes of West Ham, Wolves & Fulham would be spending over £100m on summer transfers ?

Surely we all want a competitive playing field . I guess you could Moan about City buying success but what they are doing is just what United have done in the past but they have invested so much better than United & they have a far superior man at his he helm too.

United will just have to roll their sleeves up & get on with what they have got.

[Ascayman]

Blimey Jose's stock has fallen on here, just a few months ago he was being praised to the rafters for destroying Conte with his mind games, the football was the best seen since fergie you were all on to something good and you couldnt wait to properly challenge this season.

Is the bashing he's getting on here reflective of the feeling at the ground or just letting off steam on the internet?

For what its worth im no fan of Jose but you had to feel sorry for him yesterday his players simply let him down, they weren't at all interested in winning the game not one of them.

You'll be much better at home next week no way they'd get away with performances like that in front of a home crowd.

Mourinho isnt finished as a manager he will still get results, it wont be pretty but he'll get them its his MO always has been always will be.

[franki68]

ORD said:

franki68 said:

Moyes,lvg,jose all not doing a good job ,there is only one constant in that equation and that’s the board and owners .

I don't think that's fair. All those managers were given money and plenty of time. Moyes is a simply awful manager. LvG is stuck in the 1990s. Jose is also, in my view, a relic.

If the managers aren’t good enough who’s fault is it ?
What can a manAger hope to achieve at a club where it is now acceptable just to qualify for the champions league ? There is a lack of ambition from the boardroom down .
It all stems from the board ,the lack of investment in Ferguson’s final years has resulted in a poor transfer policy over recent seasons .Bad managerial
Appointments are their responsibility .

[ORD]

200Plus Club said:

Whatever happens there will be ups and downs and I'll stick by the team. Been here before !
One loss does not make the season, and it's a collective issue starting with the current players need to up their game. Style or not the same players beat all the other top teams in the prem last season with no game plan or tactics any different !!!

We often played best when the players forgot whatever Jose tells them and just went for it. See the 3-2 against City, for example. Jose's tactics were awful, but we won the game by just throwing men forward once the game seemed lost.

I think we have the 2nd best squad in the PL, but we are nothing like the 2nd best team at the moment.

[Adam B]

franki68 said:

Moyes,lvg,jose all not doing a good job ,there is only one constant in that equation and that’s the board and owners .

Why? What have they done wrong, other than appointing 2 potentially 3 poor managers? AF was always going to be impossible to replace and they’ve tried 3 different type of managers, the first and probably all were sanctioned by AF.

Your owners have made Utd a very successful and lucrative business, club debt is fine; and if you know a little bit about business finance and WACC (which that idiot Deltona doesn’t) debt is not a bad thing when debt is cheap. They have also given LVG and JM plenty of money to spend. They aren’t irresponsible idiots or assst strippers - try Gillette and Hicks for a couple of years, or Mike Ashley!

Hindsight is 20:20 and every fan thinks they could do better, which is usually laughable unless they are Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos.

The only thing I would be critical of is not hiring a manager who has a track record of playing attractive attacking football.

[HRL]

I've emailed Mourinho and asked him if they can be st for one more game please.

If you don't ask...

[Gavia]

I’ve said from the start that I didn’t want Mourinho at our club, but I understood why we needed him. We were at risk of repeating Liverpool's downfall almost exactly. The reality is that Mourinho has not come close to delivering what we all expected. Second was a distant second. We haven’t challenged for the title at all and we won’t against his year. Add to that a st style of football and I’d rather we cut our losses early and moved on again.

I don’t expect us to win the league for quite a while, I do expect to be entertained. I fell in love with United due to the way we played football. We weren’t successful then and I can accept that we won’t win the league for a while. All I want is to see a style of football that follows the United way and there’s spirit in the team.

[Gavia]

Black can man said:

The TV deal money has made he Premier League a much more even keel , Gone are the days when United could just blow the lesser teams out of the water with their financial clout , When would anyone think they’d see the day when the likes of West Ham, Wolves & Fulham would be spending over £100m on summer transfers ?

Surely we all want a competitive playing field . I guess you could Moan about City buying success but what they are doing is just what United have done in the past but they have invested so much better than United & they have a far superior man at his he helm too.

United will just have to roll their sleeves up & get on with what they have got.

As usual your blatant WUM misses the mark completely. Nobody on here expects us to win the league, few expect us to challenge realistically. However, what we want is a team that shows togetherness and commitment alongside a desire to attack and play with some flair.

Even Sunderland fans were angry when their side just rolled over over the last two seasons. That’s where we are.

[franki68]

Adam B said:

Why? What have they done wrong, other than appointing 2 potentially 3 poor managers? AF was always going to be impossible to replace and they’ve tried 3 different type of managers, the first and probably all were sanctioned by AF.

Your owners have made Utd a very successful and lucrative business, club debt is fine; and if you know a little bit about business finance and WACC (which that idiot Deltona doesn’t) debt is not a bad thing when debt is cheap. They have also given LVG and JM plenty of money to spend. They aren’t irresponsible idiots or assst strippers - try Gillette and Hicks for a couple of years, or Mike Ashley!

Hindsight is 20:20 and every fan thinks they could do better, which is usually laughable unless they are Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos.

The only thing I would be critical of is not hiring a manager who has a track record of playing attractive attacking football.

The money thing is an issue,some of the buys have not been the managers choices,and buying players 3rd or lower on the managers wish list is not acceptable.It seems to me your board have completely backed klopp,they have ensured his main targets have been acquired almost regardless of cost.How do you think you would look if he wasn't backed and it was the 3rd choice player in that position they bought because of their perceived value ?

The debt has been brought down to a reasonable level but that resulted in years of underinvestment which has come back to bite them now.
The perisic deal last year summed it up,they wouldn't go the extra 5million .For all the investment they have made they dont have a proper right sided midfield player /winger ,our first choice full backs are converted wingers ,that is the reality.

[uk66fastback]

If you get a DoF, then the head coach will have less say in the transfers ... Maureen should think himself lucky he has the players he has. It’s his own inability to be able to coach some kind of different approach into them that is his and your downfall ...

[200Plus Club]

uk66fastback said:

If you get a DoF, then the head coach will have less say in the transfers ... Maureen should think himself lucky he has the players he has. It’s his own inability to be able to coach some kind of different approach into them that is his and your downfall ...

Any idea how his lack of ability as a coach got them to 2nd place and the cup final last year and trophies the year before? Asking for a friend.

[ORD]

200Plus Club said:

uk66fastback said:

If you get a DoF, then the head coach will have less say in the transfers ... Maureen should think himself lucky he has the players he has. It’s his own inability to be able to coach some kind of different approach into them that is his and your downfall ...

Any idea how his lack of ability as a coach got them to 2nd place and the cup final last year and trophies the year before? Asking for a friend.

Simples: he has some really excellent players.

[jammy-git]

franki68 said:

The money thing is an issue,some of the buys have not been the managers choices,and buying players 3rd or lower on the managers wish list is not acceptable.It seems to me your board have completely backed klopp,they have ensured his main targets have been acquired almost regardless of cost.How do you think you would look if he wasn't backed and it was the 3rd choice player in that position they bought because of their perceived value ?

They way it currently works with Liverpool is that Klopp discusses with Michael Edwards and his team what sort of qualities he wants in a player for a particular position. Edwards and his scouts then come back with a shortlist and Klopp will then have the final say in which of those targets he wants to pursue. Sometimes it is only one target (as with VVD and Alisson) and if that target can't be had, Klopp makes do with what he has until they either can be bought, or someone else comes along that fits the bill.

Sure, we might suffer for a season with someone less than ideal (see: Karius), but I think any Liverpool fan would agree that the slow and steady approach to transfers under Klopp and Edwards has been a million times better than any transfer policy we've had in the last few decades and better than most other teams in the league too.

[Gavia]

200Plus Club said:

Any idea how his lack of ability as a coach got them to 2nd place and the cup final last year and trophies the year before? Asking for a friend.

Really? Ignore the WUMs and be honest. Do you think we’ve progressed as a team last season and the start of this? I don’t. I see zero progress. He’s bought CBs, they haven’t worked so he wants to buy some others. No attempt to sort out a feeble LB /RB situation, no attempt to sort out our wing problem and wholly reliant on one striker who may or may not be up to the job.

No game plan is what worries me most. Prior to the two quick Brighton goals did we look in control? Did we look like a team confident in their play? Did we look like a team with a cohesive plan to break down a stubborn team? No is the answer to all of those questions. That sits squarely with the manager.

[Adam B]

franki68 said:

The money thing is an issue,some of the buys have not been the managers choices,and buying players 3rd or lower on the managers wish list is not acceptable.It seems to me your board have completely backed klopp,they have ensured his main targets have been acquired almost regardless of cost.How do you think you would look if he wasn't backed and it was the 3rd choice player in that position they bought because of their perceived value ?

You doubtless know more about the machinations of Utd than I, given I don’t support them but do you a) work for JMs PR company or b) are privy to the board/JM inner sanctum on player negotiations?

If b) or something similar then fair enough and I will doff my cap and say no more. I certainly wouldn’t believe anything in the press or the JM comments or club statements.

Also Klopp’s average purchase price is much lower and he buys players he can develop whereas my impression is JM wants to buy high cost finished articles eg didn’t he come on board saying the club had to sign his 3 targets - PP, Miki and one other? Can you imagine him buying Robertson from Hull or Shaqiri from Stoke? Nope he wanted the latest top of the range expensive thing - Maguire for 70m after a couple of good WC games

Edited by Adam B on Monday 20th August 14:41

[200Plus Club]

Gavia said:

Really? Ignore the WUMs and be honest. Do you think we’ve progressed as a team last season and the start of this? I don’t. I see zero progress. He’s bought CBs, they haven’t worked so he wants to buy some others. No attempt to sort out a feeble LB /RB situation, no attempt to sort out our wing problem and wholly reliant on one striker who may or may not be up to the job.

No game plan is what worries me most. Prior to the two quick Brighton goals did we look in control? Did we look like a team confident in their play? Did we look like a team with a cohesive plan to break down a stubborn team? No is the answer to all of those questions. That sits squarely with the manager.

I was being tongue in cheek towards the wums but I agree with some points being made generally, however we didn't become a bad team overnight nor did he become a bad coach. It's a combination of the poor pre season and lack of effort. In addition as you suggest there are failings across the board to sort the right back until too late, defense (get rid of the average players and bring in one star cb), attacking right sided player and getting best from or rid of martial.
There would have been a plan of that I'm sure against Brighton but credit them with upsetting it and the very poor performances of our lot.

Let's not write off Jose and the squad just yet, Christmas will be when we'll know what's the most likely outcomes.