The Official Manchester United Thread [vol 7]
Discussion
Not proclaiming this as truth but thought it was an interesting article on the JM v board topic when I read it a few weeks ago:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/09/m...
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/09/m...
Adam B said:
franki68 said:
The money thing is an issue,some of the buys have not been the managers choices,and buying players 3rd or lower on the managers wish list is not acceptable.It seems to me your board have completely backed klopp,they have ensured his main targets have been acquired almost regardless of cost.How do you think you would look if he wasn't backed and it was the 3rd choice player in that position they bought because of their perceived value ?
You doubtless know more about the machinations of Utd than I, given I don’t support them but do you a) work for JMs PR company or b) are privy to the board/JM inner sanctum on player negotiations?If b) or something similar then fair enough and I will doff my cap and say no more. I certainly wouldn’t believe anything in the press or the JM comments or club statements.
Also Klopp’s average purchase price is much lower and he buys players he can develop whereas my impression is JM wants to buy high cost finished articles eg didn’t he come on board saying the club had to sign his 3 targets - PP, Miki and one other? Can you imagine him buying Robertson from Hull or Shaqiri from Stoke? Nope he wanted the latest top of the range expensive thing - Maguire for 70m after a couple of good WC games
Edited by Adam B on Monday 20th August 14:41
Fergy produced miracles in his last season ,but it was a poor team carried by Rooney and rvp .
I believe the board wanted pep to replace fergy but pep looked at the squad and thought ‘no way’ .The amount of money spent is irrelevant when It has not been spent on what the manager feels is the correct players .
I do not have access to the decisions but when a manager wants 5 players and give him one then the responsibility lies with the board .
I have owned businesses ,ultimately they were my responsibility ,if I hire a poor sales director it is my fault ultimately if the company didn’t perform.
They are lumbered with players from previous managers who they can’t sell because they are on salaries way above their actual level ,this restricts the deals they can do .
franki68 said:
I think you are slightly missing the point.United haven’t played decent football for going 8-10 years
Fergy produced miracles in his last season ,but it was a poor team carried by Rooney and rvp .
I believe the board wanted pep to replace fergy but pep looked at the squad and thought ‘no way’ .The amount of money spent is irrelevant when It has not been spent on what the manager feels is the correct players .
I do not have access to the decisions but when a manager wants 5 players and give him one then the responsibility lies with the board .
I have owned businesses ,ultimately they were my responsibility ,if I hire a poor sales director it is my fault ultimately if the company didn’t perform.
They are lumbered with players from previous managers who they can’t sell because they are on salaries way above their actual level ,this restricts the deals they can do .
I agree with your point around SAF’s final years and the turgid football played then. Pep, I’m not so sure about, my understanding is that it was more or less a done deal, but the last minute City title win meant SAF stayed on another year as he didn’t want to go out on a low. Fergy produced miracles in his last season ,but it was a poor team carried by Rooney and rvp .
I believe the board wanted pep to replace fergy but pep looked at the squad and thought ‘no way’ .The amount of money spent is irrelevant when It has not been spent on what the manager feels is the correct players .
I do not have access to the decisions but when a manager wants 5 players and give him one then the responsibility lies with the board .
I have owned businesses ,ultimately they were my responsibility ,if I hire a poor sales director it is my fault ultimately if the company didn’t perform.
They are lumbered with players from previous managers who they can’t sell because they are on salaries way above their actual level ,this restricts the deals they can do .
The Board do have some responsibility, but to take your analogy further. If your Sales Director insisted on employing a few salespeople and then a year later insisted on replacing them and so on, who would you say is the weak link then? I’ve run businesses at a senior level and whenever a direct report came to me suggesting he needed to get rid of and replace most of his team, then I threw the common denominator question at him. A manager is a leader and a coach. He needs to step up.
DDG saved our defence last season and gave us one of the best defensive records, thankfully we've kept him. One of the pairings we could use has to work and be retained notwithstanding any injuries. In midfield with Matic back plus Pogba and fred/perrera/Hernandez/lingard combos we have enough to play with when they are all firing. Upfront is my worry as Sanchez and lukaku need to click and be supported better.
We do have some great players so you can see why the board didn't back Jose to some extent in buying older established players.
We do tho have a fair few players not at the very top level currently or at the end of their careers (young/fellaini/darmian/martial/Mata/rojo etc) who in previous yrs under Fergie may well have been replaced by youth or others.
We do have some great players so you can see why the board didn't back Jose to some extent in buying older established players.
We do tho have a fair few players not at the very top level currently or at the end of their careers (young/fellaini/darmian/martial/Mata/rojo etc) who in previous yrs under Fergie may well have been replaced by youth or others.
But we keep offering them new contracts. Fellaini is s
te, the fact we rely on him in some games says it all about our squad. Instead of letting him go at the end of last season, we offered him a new contract. We keep doing that, it’s time to reassess what we have and start ending contracts, even paying contracts up to get them off the books.
However, that won’t remove the issue with Mourinho. Bailly is, on paper, our best defender, but he’s gone backwards. Where is the development of players?
te, the fact we rely on him in some games says it all about our squad. Instead of letting him go at the end of last season, we offered him a new contract. We keep doing that, it’s time to reassess what we have and start ending contracts, even paying contracts up to get them off the books. However, that won’t remove the issue with Mourinho. Bailly is, on paper, our best defender, but he’s gone backwards. Where is the development of players?
Gavia said:
franki68 said:
I think you are slightly missing the point.United haven’t played decent football for going 8-10 years
Fergy produced miracles in his last season ,but it was a poor team carried by Rooney and rvp .
I believe the board wanted pep to replace fergy but pep looked at the squad and thought ‘no way’ .The amount of money spent is irrelevant when It has not been spent on what the manager feels is the correct players .
I do not have access to the decisions but when a manager wants 5 players and give him one then the responsibility lies with the board .
I have owned businesses ,ultimately they were my responsibility ,if I hire a poor sales director it is my fault ultimately if the company didn’t perform.
They are lumbered with players from previous managers who they can’t sell because they are on salaries way above their actual level ,this restricts the deals they can do .
I agree with your point around SAF’s final years and the turgid football played then. Pep, I’m not so sure about, my understanding is that it was more or less a done deal, but the last minute City title win meant SAF stayed on another year as he didn’t want to go out on a low. Fergy produced miracles in his last season ,but it was a poor team carried by Rooney and rvp .
I believe the board wanted pep to replace fergy but pep looked at the squad and thought ‘no way’ .The amount of money spent is irrelevant when It has not been spent on what the manager feels is the correct players .
I do not have access to the decisions but when a manager wants 5 players and give him one then the responsibility lies with the board .
I have owned businesses ,ultimately they were my responsibility ,if I hire a poor sales director it is my fault ultimately if the company didn’t perform.
They are lumbered with players from previous managers who they can’t sell because they are on salaries way above their actual level ,this restricts the deals they can do .
The Board do have some responsibility, but to take your analogy further. If your Sales Director insisted on employing a few salespeople and then a year later insisted on replacing them and so on, who would you say is the weak link then? I’ve run businesses at a senior level and whenever a direct report came to me suggesting he needed to get rid of and replace most of his team, then I threw the common denominator question at him. A manager is a leader and a coach. He needs to step up.
But your extension of the analogy is wrong,the correct extension in quite a few instances would be the sales director wanting certain salesmen but the board giving him others ,and being told to make do with most of the current sales staff who are on contracts that make getting rid of them highly difficult .
I’m not blindly defending Maureen ,but we can change manAger a hundred times and things won’t improve until the board put the football first and the commercialism second .
You make some fair points franki and I don’t profess to be any sort of MU expert but from an outsiders perspective (apologies for the selective editing):
franki68 said:
The amount of money spent is irrelevant when It has not been spent on what the manager feels is the correct players .
But they have given him lots, what if JM picked wrong players or didn’t focus on the positions were you lacked? I just don’t believe the board picked players JM didn’t want (may not be his top choice). Why can’t the say you have 30 or 40 to buy a player but he must be 25 or under and wages must be under 100k? The board will focus on VFM, resale value and long term, JM focuses on 1-2 years max and then leavingfranki68 said:
I do not have access to the decisions but when a manager wants 5 players and give him one then the responsibility lies with the board
But why shouldn’t the board ask him to develop what he’s already acquired at great cost? Who picked Sanchez? Enormously expensive when you include sign ons, agent bungs and offensive wages. Not young. Shown to be disruptive in dressing room, gets paid more than better players - DDG and PPAdam B said:
But why shouldn’t the board ask him to develop what he’s already acquired at great cost? Who picked Sanchez? Enormously expensive when you include sign ons, agent bungs and offensive wages. Not young. Shown to be disruptive in dressing room, gets paid more than better players - DDG and PP
develop the same players moyes and lvg didnt develop ? Yes he appears not to be the right man for someone like Martial/shaw etc but the board knew this when they signed him.This is the crux of my point,there has been a mish mash of transfer policy over a long period ,bringing in young players to develop but without the right sort of manager to develop them.They pick a manager with a track record of getting instant success by buying a certain type of player,but then do not support him fully in that.City had a long term plan,Liverpool seem to have taken that on board and fully got behind the manager united look like they are constantly putting out fires.
Who knows who picked sanchez,it seems based on his performances and his effect on the team overall to be one of the worst signings ever.
Adam B said:
Not proclaiming this as truth but thought it was an interesting article on the JM v board topic when I read it a few weeks ago:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/09/m...
The theme you can take out of that article and look back at the last 13 years of Mourinho’s management is that without a doubt he manages a squad and team for the present and doesn’t give any thought to the future squad. Look at his record of bringing youth players through at Chelsea. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/09/m...
The narrative over the last two months from Mourinho has been very similar to that in his last season at Chelsea. That summe he was agitating from pre-season saying unnecessarily controversial things like he is now. Then it appeared he wanted out so he could get his current job...who knows what he’s up to now.
Personally I think Mourinho is a bit of a busted flush,,, the players have seen and heard it all before and they have more power than ever. There’s no question at all about who is more important to Utd when it comes to Pogba or Mourinho.
I was quite surprised when Mourinho got hs new contract given how Utd were playing. I think like his third Chelsea season he’ll be gone by Xmas.
franki68 said:
Adam B said:
But why shouldn’t the board ask him to develop what he’s already acquired at great cost? Who picked Sanchez? Enormously expensive when you include sign ons, agent bungs and offensive wages. Not young. Shown to be disruptive in dressing room, gets paid more than better players - DDG and PP
develop the same players moyes and lvg didnt develop ? Yes he appears not to be the right man for someone like Martial/shaw etc but the board knew this when they signed him.This is the crux of my point,there has been a mish mash of transfer policy over a long period ,bringing in young players to develop but without the right sort of manager to develop them.They pick a manager with a track record of getting instant success by buying a certain type of player,but then do not support him fully in that.City had a long term plan,Liverpool seem to have taken that on board and fully got behind the manager united look like they are constantly putting out fires.
Who knows who picked sanchez,it seems based on his performances and his effect on the team overall to be one of the worst signings ever.
Jose has likely done his usual thing it seems which is be great for a short term fix, but the players get fed up of him and don't bother as they feel he kills their natural positions etc. It's perhaps stupid to say 2 games into a season, but it does seem like Jose will not lead you to the PL based on what we have seen so far.
uk66fastback said:
As Defoe said yesterday during the Sky coverage, teams are not afraid of Utd anymore. You simply don't have the players of old who could tear you apart - whereas City now do - as some others do as well. Gavia and Alpine might well bemoan that fact and say teams are beaten before they start against City but that is what teams were against Utd for YEARS.
Unfortunately for you, times have changed - and you're going to have to accept it!
Sorry but I’ve never said that. I think it’s a very poor argument. City have created and earned the aura of fear. It’s no conincidence that they are a fantastic footballing team, and other teams “don’t turn up” against them - for fear of being humiliated. Unfortunately for you, times have changed - and you're going to have to accept it!
We absolutely don’t have that aura anymore.
E65Ross said:
There seems to be an awful lot of stuff being spouted about how Mourinho is in for the sack etc..... But we're 2 games into the season! You came 2nd last year to a rather incredible Man City so don't see that as too bad?
Playing negative football, winning games by the odd goal and relying heavily on our keeper being superhuman. We failed in the CL, blew the FA Cup and were never in the hunt for the PL. other teams also had long enough runs in the CL to take their focus away from an unwinnable PL. Gavia said:
Playing negative football, winning games by the odd goal and relying heavily on our keeper being superhuman. We failed in the CL, blew the FA Cup and were never in the hunt for the PL. other teams also had long enough runs in the CL to take their focus away from an unwinnable PL.
Other than that you enjoyed it though.? :-)
Just be glad guys you don't support some of the dross out there such as....
Ps Liverpool won so that's the league done with lol
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