Will VAR Change Football for the Better?

[TEKNOPUG]

Driver101 said:

TEKNOPUG said:

As for the number of decisions where the officials have incorrectly awarded a corner/goal kick in, when a quick replay shows it was wrong....

If you were to double check every goal kick, corner and throw in the game would drag on.

If you start using VAR to that level then you start to have to look at every decision.

The ball is already out of play. You aren't stopping the game. Every wrong decision I've seen, a TV replay has been shown before the resultant free kick has been taken. They don't need the ref to review it, just tell him it took a deflection off a defender and should be a corner. It's the random choosing of what to review which is nuts. Only review if there is a goal but not review a corner/throw in which could lead to a goal...

[Driver101]

TEKNOPUG said:

Driver101 said:

TEKNOPUG said:

As for the number of decisions where the officials have incorrectly awarded a corner/goal kick in, when a quick replay shows it was wrong....

If you were to double check every goal kick, corner and throw in the game would drag on.

If you start using VAR to that level then you start to have to look at every decision.

The ball is already out of play. You aren't stopping the game. Every wrong decision I've seen, a TV replay has been shown before the resultant free kick has been taken. They don't need the ref to review it, just tell him it took a deflection off a defender and should be a corner. It's the random choosing of what to review which is nuts. Only review if there is a goal but not review a corner/throw in which could lead to a goal...

Often the replays are slower than the time it takes for set play to take place. Some of the deflections and touches can take numerous camera angles to detect. Some are only picked up after the game. There isn't enough time to analyze things without pausing the game.

Also when a team thinks they've got any set play all the players adjust their position to suit. If a team is awarded a corner or freekick all the big defenders go up the pitch. If the decision is changed then it's only fair to allow players to get back into their correct position.

It'll be too disruptive to the game.

[anonymous-user]

I know no supporters has an effect on teams, but many PL teams this season have better away records than at home.
Does anyone think VAR has also effected this , negating the home bias of referees?

Edited by Cliffe60 on Saturday 22 May 18:53

[Driver101]

Cliffe60 said:

I know no supporters gas an effect on teams, but many PL teams this season have better away records than at home.
Does anyone think VAR has also effected this , negating the home bias of referees?

Here is the foul and card stats. I've used this season and 18/19 due to part of last season being played under Covid restrictions.



[url][img]

Edited by Driver101 on Saturday 22 May 13:36

[LotusOmega375D]

We haven’t had a good bh on this thread for a while, so I thought I would bump it up after last nights MU v AV FA Cup tie.

Does anyone honestly think that Cavani would have won that cross, if he hadn’t ran into Ramsey?

I expect the various PL set-piece coaches will this week be focusing on defending attacking free kicks. Basically defenders step up at point of ball contact and run into the nearest offside player. Any resulting goal will be ruled out.

[Blib]

VAR continues to delight. Hopefully, one day the faceless off-site officials will break the magical 'five minute decision making' barrier!

[Challo]

LotusOmega375D said:

We haven’t had a good bh on this thread for a while, so I thought I would bump it up after last nights MU v AV FA Cup tie.

Does anyone honestly think that Cavani would have won that cross, if he hadn’t ran into Ramsey?

I expect the various PL set-piece coaches will this week be focusing on defending attacking free kicks. Basically defenders step up at point of ball contact and run into the nearest offside player. Any resulting goal will be ruled out.

I do agree that we dont know if Cavani would have got to the ball, but I feel he would have stopped the Villa player having an easy header back across goal. If you look at the play again the Villa player is facing Cavani and moves from his initial position and ensures he blocks Cavani's run,

I think if the Villa player wasn't looking at Cavani or had stood still the goal would have stood.

While as a United fan im glad it was given, but the issue for me on the VAR is that no-one knows whats going on. The Fans dont know, the players dont know. In rugby they make it clear from the outset what they are checking, and why they have stuck/changed their decision.

[Glassman]

LotusOmega375D said:

We haven’t had a good bh on this thread for a while, so I thought I would bump it up after last nights MU v AV FA Cup tie.

Does anyone honestly think that Cavani would have won that cross, if he hadn’t ran into Ramsey?

I expect the various PL set-piece coaches will this week be focusing on defending attacking free kicks. Basically defenders step up at point of ball contact and run into the nearest offside player. Any resulting goal will be ruled out.

First they were looking at a possible offside. Not finding enough evidence there they then switched to the moment Cavani ran into Jacobs. Taking way too long to find fault in a goal when if anything, the first 'offence' would have been the Cavani foul.

At 1-1 it would have been a good game.

[Fady]

Challo said:

LotusOmega375D said:

We haven’t had a good bh on this thread for a while, so I thought I would bump it up after last nights MU v AV FA Cup tie.

Does anyone honestly think that Cavani would have won that cross, if he hadn’t ran into Ramsey?

I expect the various PL set-piece coaches will this week be focusing on defending attacking free kicks. Basically defenders step up at point of ball contact and run into the nearest offside player. Any resulting goal will be ruled out.

I do agree that we dont know if Cavani would have got to the ball, but I feel he would have stopped the Villa player having an easy header back across goal. If you look at the play again the Villa player is facing Cavani and moves from his initial position and ensures he blocks Cavani's run,

I think if the Villa player wasn't looking at Cavani or had stood still the goal would have stood.

While as a United fan im glad it was given, but the issue for me on the VAR is that no-one knows whats going on. The Fans dont know, the players dont know. In rugby they make it clear from the outset what they are checking, and why they have stuck/changed their decision.

It's also the fact that it takes a flippin' age!

You almost daren't celebrate a goal nowadays in case it gets chalked out.

[RichB]

Challo said:

<clip> the issue for me on the VAR is that no-one knows whats going on. The Fans don't know, the players don't know. In rugby they make it clear from the outset what they are checking, and why they have stuck/changed their decision.

Exactly - I don't know why the FA don't simply follow rugby's tried and tested approach. The referee asks a direct question e.g. "Can you see a reason why I should not award that try?" then the answer comes back with an explanation that is clear and understandable. WIth VAR it is still all cloak and daggers. It suggests to me that even the referees don't know what's going on nor how to interpret the rules.

Personally I think the ref on the field should make a decision and then refer it to VAR if necessary, there should then be a time limit on them responding. If they can;t answer the ref's question in say, 30 seconds it's not a clear error on his part. So, something like, "I want to award that goal, is there any reason not to do do?"..... tick-tock, tick-tock... answer yes, no or time's up and ref's decision stands, move on.

Edited by RichB on Tuesday 11th January 09:41

[Gad-Westy]

Slightly sore Villa fan here but trying to be objective. Coming back to the original title of this thread, does anyone feel that football is better post-VAR intro? I was strongly against it from the off and if anything my dislike of it has intensified. I actually barely bother watching any live football anymore. That's not 100% down to VAR but I think it's the biggest factor by far. It has sapped an awful lot of joy and flow out of the game and doesn't appear to have removed any of the controversy.

[peter tdci]

What makes last night's events worse is that VAR wasn't in place for all the FA Cup ties - only those played at PL grounds (as I understand it). Surely if it can't be used for every game, then it shouldn't be used at any of them?

[Glassman]

peter tdci said:

What makes last night's events worse is that VAR wasn't in place for all the FA Cup ties - only those played at PL grounds (as I understand it). Surely if it can't be used for every game, then it shouldn't be used at any of them?

Consistency and VAR just do not go together.

[Challo]

RichB said:

Challo said:

<clip> the issue for me on the VAR is that no-one knows whats going on. The Fans don't know, the players don't know. In rugby they make it clear from the outset what they are checking, and why they have stuck/changed their decision.

Exactly - I don't know why the FA don't simply follow rugby's tried and tested approach. The referee asks a direct question e.g. "Can you see a reason why I should not award that try?" then the answer comes back with an explanation that is clear and understandable. WIth VAR it is still all cloak and daggers. It suggests to me that even the referees don't know what's going on nor how to interpret the rules.

Personally I think the ref on the field should make a decision and then refer it to VAR if necessary, there should then be a time limit on them responding. If they can;t answer the ref's question in say, 30 seconds it's not a clear error on his part. So, something like, "I want to award that goal, is there any reason not to do do?"..... tick-tock, tick-tock... answer yes, no or time's up and ref's decision stands, move on.

Edited by RichB on Tuesday 11th January 09:41

For me it should work the other way around. The ref continues as normal and confirms goal / no goal as he sees it on the pitch in real time. VAR are apparently watching all the time, so they can easily alert the ref real time 'hold on we are checking a potential offside', or 'we suspect there is a foul in the build up'. The ref can jog over to the TV and see the images on the screen and agree yes or no. The off-sides are more a pain especially if its tight, but for fouls the ref can clearly see if its something he has seen and decided its not a foul or perhaps there is something he has missed.

For VAR to take several mins, and then call the ref over its pointless.

[extraT]

Arsenal v Notts - no VAR possible

Man Utd v Villa - VAR

In both games VAR (or lack of it) hugely influenced the games.

How can the FA say both games were played to the same rules?

Regardless of who wins or lose, how are the rules for those four teams so different? How is it allowed? VAR needs to be present for all teams / games and if that isn’t possible, shouldn’t be used in during the whole competition (including the final).

[Glassman]

Just like the rule about all of the ball being over the line for it to count as a goal or not, the off-side rule needs to be a whole foot or whole leg.

This forensic analysis of the tip of a toe being 2mm behind the last defender's heel is just not doing it for me.

[Blib]

Fady said:

You almost daren't celebrate a goal nowadays in case it gets chalked out.

There! That's it in a nutshell.

That's the detestable thing about VAR. It removes the spontaneous joy of the game.

If I was setting out to deliberately ruin football I would come up with VAR.

[LotusOmega375D]

Don’t forget the second Villa “goal”. Correctly chalked off for Ings offside near the halfway line, but only after play had continued for two more phases, Watkins had put the ball in the net, Lindelof had wrapped his leg around the post and the Villa fans had started celebrating. Only then does the linesman stick his flag up. He obviously knew it was offside himself, otherwise he wouldn’t have flagged at all and VAR would have decided.

All the spontaneity is sucked out of the game. You sit through 90 minutes of football just to experience those fleeting moments of euphoria, but the looming presence of VAR just spoils it as a spectacle.

[DFLR]

West Hams goal should've been disallowed but VAR did allow it. It's just mental that even when it's checked, they still get it wrong.

[TEKNOPUG]

Driver101 said:

Here is the foul and card stats. I've used this season and 18/19 due to part of last season being played under Covid restrictions.



[url][thumb]

Edited by Driver101 on Saturday 22 May 13:36

Liverpool, most fouls committed before a player being carded - across both years.....

Nothing to see there I'm sure