Will VAR Change Football for the Better?
Discussion
johnboy1975 said:
(NB probably a bit of nuance in that if you're down injured you might not be interfering with play. Seem to recall you were still "off" under the old rules)
It was far easier in the 'old days'. As for being on the floor injured, I can't remember, it's nearly 40 years since played but I seem to remember you were encouraged to get off the pitch... Anyway, IMO they have made the offside rule far to complicated. p.s. what happened to 'level with' is onside? Can't do that with the infinite accuracy of the VAR lines!
You are offside as and when the ball is played. So if you are on your back in an offside position when the ball is played, not interfering with play, and then get up to join in the melee, at what point do you become offside?
I can remember under the old rules players out on the touch line being caught offside when all the action was in the box, tens of yards away. Seemed tough at the time, but we all knew where we were and there was nothing subjective about it.
As for who first said ‘if you are not interfering with play then what are you doing out there?’ you are all wrong.
I said it first.
I can remember under the old rules players out on the touch line being caught offside when all the action was in the box, tens of yards away. Seemed tough at the time, but we all knew where we were and there was nothing subjective about it.
As for who first said ‘if you are not interfering with play then what are you doing out there?’ you are all wrong.
I said it first.
coldel said:
The Gordon penalty for instance against West Ham (I dont believe I am looking at this with rose tinted glasses either) is a good example of where an attacker tried to engineer a penalty. Look at it this way, if it was up the other end and Phillips was taking a shot, that would be called a stonewall penalty for West Ham and probably a minimum yellow card for Gordon for a tackle from behind. I also agree with and hate the wrestling at corners that goes on, how it has suddenly appeared in the last couple of seasons, it is utterly ridiculous as if you did the same in the centre circle its a freekick all day long.
But looking at the Gordon incident from the other side, his foot was nearer the ball than the defender and i can't believe he'd deliberately place his foot where it is likely to get a possibly debilitating kick. He's not Bruno Ferdinanes.Skyedriver said:
coldel said:
The Gordon penalty for instance against West Ham (I dont believe I am looking at this with rose tinted glasses either) is a good example of where an attacker tried to engineer a penalty. Look at it this way, if it was up the other end and Phillips was taking a shot, that would be called a stonewall penalty for West Ham and probably a minimum yellow card for Gordon for a tackle from behind. I also agree with and hate the wrestling at corners that goes on, how it has suddenly appeared in the last couple of seasons, it is utterly ridiculous as if you did the same in the centre circle its a freekick all day long.
But looking at the Gordon incident from the other side, his foot was nearer the ball than the defender and i can't believe he'd deliberately place his foot where it is likely to get a possibly debilitating kick. He's not Bruno Ferdinanes.Yesterday's Coventry Man U game is everything I hate about VAR, and knew would be a disaster for football before it was introduced. What happened yesterday when Cov thought they'd won 4-3, and the players and fans went crazy, has no place in football.
Yes, it was offside, but as I said on Page 1 of this thread, getting the big decisions right won't make the game better, it'll make it worse. And it has. Without VAR, the goal would either have stood, and the greatest comeback in cup semi history would have been complete, or the flag would have gone up and the players and fans would have known in a few seconds it was no goal.
Both of which would have been miles better than the debacle that took place.
Yes, it was offside, but as I said on Page 1 of this thread, getting the big decisions right won't make the game better, it'll make it worse. And it has. Without VAR, the goal would either have stood, and the greatest comeback in cup semi history would have been complete, or the flag would have gone up and the players and fans would have known in a few seconds it was no goal.
Both of which would have been miles better than the debacle that took place.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Yesterday's Coventry Man U game is everything I hate about VAR, and knew would be a disaster for football before it was introduced. What happened yesterday when Cov thought they'd won 4-3, and the players and fans went crazy, has no place in football.
Yes, it was offside, but as I said on Page 1 of this thread, getting the big decisions right won't make the game better, it'll make it worse. And it has. Without VAR, the goal would either have stood, and the greatest comeback in cup semi history would have been complete, or the flag would have gone up and the players and fans would have known in a few seconds it was no goal.
Both of which would have been miles better than the debacle that took place.
Agree with this aspect - didn’t watch the game so unable to comment on whether to the naked eye during the normal course and speed of the game, it was offside or not.Yes, it was offside, but as I said on Page 1 of this thread, getting the big decisions right won't make the game better, it'll make it worse. And it has. Without VAR, the goal would either have stood, and the greatest comeback in cup semi history would have been complete, or the flag would have gone up and the players and fans would have known in a few seconds it was no goal.
Both of which would have been miles better than the debacle that took place.
However, when decisions are made based on a line drawn across the players feet or other body parts, then it is, imo, a nonsense. Whilst perhaps far fetched, On that basis, a player could be classed as office by virtue of having a bigger nose than the defender!
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Yesterday's Coventry Man U game is everything I hate about VAR, and knew would be a disaster for football before it was introduced. What happened yesterday when Cov thought they'd won 4-3, and the players and fans went crazy, has no place in football.
Yes, it was offside, but as I said on Page 1 of this thread, getting the big decisions right won't make the game better, it'll make it worse. And it has. Without VAR, the goal would either have stood, and the greatest comeback in cup semi history would have been complete, or the flag would have gone up and the players and fans would have known in a few seconds it was no goal.
Both of which would have been miles better than the debacle that took place.
I guess the flip is what if Man Utd had scored an offside goal that beat coventry in the last minute, and VAR wasn't around to rule it out. There would be bedlam and moaning of the highest order from all parts of football, how the dream was unfairly taken away from them, with mentions of 'big club bias' in officiating so on and so forth. And we know this happens, because, well, it has happened plenty of times.Yes, it was offside, but as I said on Page 1 of this thread, getting the big decisions right won't make the game better, it'll make it worse. And it has. Without VAR, the goal would either have stood, and the greatest comeback in cup semi history would have been complete, or the flag would have gone up and the players and fans would have known in a few seconds it was no goal.
Both of which would have been miles better than the debacle that took place.
There is never a good outcome unfortunately one way or the other.
coldel said:
I guess the flip is what if Man Utd had scored an offside goal that beat coventry in the last minute, and VAR wasn't around to rule it out. There would be bedlam and moaning of the highest order from all parts of football, how the dream was unfairly taken away from them, with mentions of 'big club bias' in officiating so on and so forth. And we know this happens, because, well, it has happened plenty of times.
There is never a good outcome unfortunately one way or the other.
It twas ever thus and although we all have a good moan about decisions that we perceive to have gone against us, without VAR, there was/is an acceptance that over the course of a season, it will probably balance itself out.There is never a good outcome unfortunately one way or the other.
VAR has its benefits in some circumstances although in a very marginal offside that can only be decided on by the closest of margins, then I would suggest not.
Boringvolvodriver said:
Agree with this aspect - didn’t watch the game so unable to comment on whether to the naked eye during the normal course and speed of the game, it was offside or not.
However, when decisions are made based on a line drawn across the players feet or other body parts, then it is, imo, a nonsense. Whilst perhaps far fetched, On that basis, a player could be classed as office by virtue of having a bigger nose than the defender!
To the naked eye the players were level and that is not offside. However, when decisions are made based on a line drawn across the players feet or other body parts, then it is, imo, a nonsense. Whilst perhaps far fetched, On that basis, a player could be classed as office by virtue of having a bigger nose than the defender!
RichB said:
Boringvolvodriver said:
Agree with this aspect - didn’t watch the game so unable to comment on whether to the naked eye during the normal course and speed of the game, it was offside or not.
However, when decisions are made based on a line drawn across the players feet or other body parts, then it is, imo, a nonsense. Whilst perhaps far fetched, On that basis, a player could be classed as office by virtue of having a bigger nose than the defender!
To the naked eye the players were level and that is not offside. However, when decisions are made based on a line drawn across the players feet or other body parts, then it is, imo, a nonsense. Whilst perhaps far fetched, On that basis, a player could be classed as office by virtue of having a bigger nose than the defender!
I think there are aspects that grate...
When its so so close to an onside
When its against the underdog
When it takes too long
I wonder how offsides would be taken by fans if it was technologically possible to beep like when the ball crosses the goal line, if it was instant, would fans accept it then? Or is it more that there is something to be had by marginally being offside and getting away with it?
When its so so close to an onside
When its against the underdog
When it takes too long
I wonder how offsides would be taken by fans if it was technologically possible to beep like when the ball crosses the goal line, if it was instant, would fans accept it then? Or is it more that there is something to be had by marginally being offside and getting away with it?
coldel said:
I think there are aspects that grate...
When its so so close to an onside
When its against the underdog
When it takes too long
I wonder how offsides would be taken by fans if it was technologically possible to beep like when the ball crosses the goal line, if it was instant, would fans accept it then? Or is it more that there is something to be had by marginally being offside and getting away with it?
That is an interesting point - I think the time taken is a big factor along with the number of replays and ultra slow motion.When its so so close to an onside
When its against the underdog
When it takes too long
I wonder how offsides would be taken by fans if it was technologically possible to beep like when the ball crosses the goal line, if it was instant, would fans accept it then? Or is it more that there is something to be had by marginally being offside and getting away with it?
If you look at something enough times and in ultra slow motion, then anything becomes an issue.
If, say two angles and two replays can’t decide, then stick with the on field decision perhaps? That would mean that the refs and linos would have to make decisions of course!
VAR and offsides don't really work that well because it's down to the video referee deciding when THEY think the ball was kicked and then the lines are drawn based on that timing.
It's open to human error and when the difference between offside and onside can be a matter of millimetres we can have no faith that the correct decision has been made
It's open to human error and when the difference between offside and onside can be a matter of millimetres we can have no faith that the correct decision has been made
coldel said:
I think there are aspects that grate...
When its so so close to an onside
When its against the underdog
When it takes too long
I wonder how offsides would be taken by fans if it was technologically possible to beep like when the ball crosses the goal line, if it was instant, would fans accept it then?
I suspect that is the solution. the problem with VAR as it stands is the human part of it.When its so so close to an onside
When its against the underdog
When it takes too long
I wonder how offsides would be taken by fans if it was technologically possible to beep like when the ball crosses the goal line, if it was instant, would fans accept it then?
If all players have a chip and the ball has a chip then it is surely not beyond the limits of current tech to quickly communicate to the ref if someone was definitively offside or not.
If a system like that was in place then the fans would be more accepting.
272BHP said:
I suspect that is the solution. the problem with VAR as it stands is the human part of it.
If all players have a chip and the ball has a chip then it is surely not beyond the limits of current tech to quickly communicate to the ref if someone was definitively offside or not.
If a system like that was in place then the fans would be more accepting.
How can players have chips ? Where would you put it given they can be offside with multiple parts of the body ?If all players have a chip and the ball has a chip then it is surely not beyond the limits of current tech to quickly communicate to the ref if someone was definitively offside or not.
If a system like that was in place then the fans would be more accepting.
Boringvolvodriver said:
RichB said:
Boringvolvodriver said:
Agree with this aspect - didn’t watch the game so unable to comment on whether to the naked eye during the normal course and speed of the game, it was offside or not.
However, when decisions are made based on a line drawn across the players feet or other body parts, then it is, imo, a nonsense. Whilst perhaps far fetched, On that basis, a player could be classed as office by virtue of having a bigger nose than the defender!
To the naked eye the players were level and that is not offside. However, when decisions are made based on a line drawn across the players feet or other body parts, then it is, imo, a nonsense. Whilst perhaps far fetched, On that basis, a player could be classed as office by virtue of having a bigger nose than the defender!
Bluevanman said:
272BHP said:
I suspect that is the solution. the problem with VAR as it stands is the human part of it.
If all players have a chip and the ball has a chip then it is surely not beyond the limits of current tech to quickly communicate to the ref if someone was definitively offside or not.
If a system like that was in place then the fans would be more accepting.
How can players have chips ? Where would you put it given they can be offside with multiple parts of the body ?If all players have a chip and the ball has a chip then it is surely not beyond the limits of current tech to quickly communicate to the ref if someone was definitively offside or not.
If a system like that was in place then the fans would be more accepting.
I feel sorry for Forest this weekend as they had at least 2 obvious penalty decisions not given and TBH the 3rd one was probably a penalty as well. No idea why the VAR officials didn't tell the ref to look at it again.
P.S. Clattenburg can FRO as well.
Tycho said:
I guess the only way to do it would have chips in the shirts and all in a specific place. Then you'd have to change the rule to be only if the chip was offside. It's not ideal but could be a lot quicker and definitive rather than depending on where the official decides to put the lines. I guess the other alternative would be like in the World Cup and have a lot of cameras down the sideline and use an automated system which seemed to work well in the WC but for some reason the FA or PL didn't want it.
I feel sorry for Forest this weekend as they had at least 2 obvious penalty decisions not given and TBH the 3rd one was probably a penalty as well. No idea why the VAR officials didn't tell the ref to look at it again.
P.S. Clattenburg can FRO as well.
It's not going to work.The crucial factor people are missing is the contact with the ball for the pass to the offside player.You can be offside from a headed pass,do you want to implant a chip in the players heads lol .I feel sorry for Forest this weekend as they had at least 2 obvious penalty decisions not given and TBH the 3rd one was probably a penalty as well. No idea why the VAR officials didn't tell the ref to look at it again.
P.S. Clattenburg can FRO as well.
Forget technology, it's not going to fix the offside call .It all comes back to clear and obvious, that's VAR's modus operandi and they gone away from that .
The Coventry winning goal was not clear and obviously offside therefore they were robbed
Bluevanman said:
272BHP said:
I suspect that is the solution. the problem with VAR as it stands is the human part of it.
If all players have a chip and the ball has a chip then it is surely not beyond the limits of current tech to quickly communicate to the ref if someone was definitively offside or not.
If a system like that was in place then the fans would be more accepting.
How can players have chips ? Where would you put it given they can be offside with multiple parts of the body ?If all players have a chip and the ball has a chip then it is surely not beyond the limits of current tech to quickly communicate to the ref if someone was definitively offside or not.
If a system like that was in place then the fans would be more accepting.
VAR doing auto offside next year anyway, hopefully using less thick crayons than used to save United at the weekend.
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