Will VAR Change Football for the Better?
Discussion
jcremonini said:
It might help if you understood VAR better. The clear and obvious rule does not apply to offsides as that is binary rather than subjective. It has never applied to offsides. So your point is moot.
I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday. I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
It might help if you understood VAR better. The clear and obvious rule does not apply to offsides as that is binary rather than subjective. It has never applied to offsides. So your point is moot.
I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday. I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
jcremonini said:
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
It might help if you understood VAR better. The clear and obvious rule does not apply to offsides as that is binary rather than subjective. It has never applied to offsides. So your point is moot.
I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday. I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
https://twitter.com/ManUtdChannel/status/119357589...
ChevyChase77 said:
He was offside. As soon as I saw the goal in real time I said he was just offside and this proves it.
https://twitter.com/ManUtdChannel/status/119357589...
https://twitter.com/ManUtdChannel/status/119357589...
ChevyChase77 said:
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday.
If he was just offside, then he was offside. It he was just onside, he was onside. It's binary. You cannot be insufficiently offside to be onside, or visa versa. If someone big toe is offside, they are offside. If a defender with a big hooter has his nose in front of the attackers big toe, he's onside.
ChevyChase77 said:
You can argue they got the binary decision wrong, but you cannot argue offside isn't binary. It is. You're entitled to your own opinion, but you aren't entitled to your own facts. TwigtheWonderkid said:
ChevyChase77 said:
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday.
If he was just offside, then he was offside. It he was just onside, he was onside. It's binary. You cannot be insufficiently offside to be onside, or visa versa. If someone big toe is offside, they are offside. If a defender with a big hooter has his nose in front of the attackers big toe, he's onside.
Salah is offside.
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
It might help if you understood VAR better. The clear and obvious rule does not apply to offsides as that is binary rather than subjective. It has never applied to offsides. So your point is moot.
I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday. I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
https://twitter.com/ManUtdChannel/status/119357589...
Take a look at the lines in the pitch a little closer in relation to the lines they have imposed onto the picture. Note that they adjust the left hand imposed (white) line to be parallel with the left hand side of the darker green strip. Now take a look at the right hand imposed line and the right hand side of the darker green line. Do you see a major problem with that video now ? ( clue - what happens as you move from left to right ? )
jcremonini said:
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
It might help if you understood VAR better. The clear and obvious rule does not apply to offsides as that is binary rather than subjective. It has never applied to offsides. So your point is moot.
I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday. I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
https://twitter.com/ManUtdChannel/status/119357589...
Take a look at the lines in the pitch a little closer in relation to the lines they have imposed onto the picture. Note that they adjust the left hand imposed (white) line to be parallel with the left hand side of the darker green strip. Now take a look at the right hand imposed line and the right hand side of the darker green line. Do you see a major problem with that video now ? ( clue - what happens as you move from left to right ? )
Salah is clearly the player closest to where the pitch changes shades of green. Given the lines are parallel with the 18 yard line, he's offside.
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
It might help if you understood VAR better. The clear and obvious rule does not apply to offsides as that is binary rather than subjective. It has never applied to offsides. So your point is moot.
I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday. I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
https://twitter.com/ManUtdChannel/status/119357589...
Take a look at the lines in the pitch a little closer in relation to the lines they have imposed onto the picture. Note that they adjust the left hand imposed (white) line to be parallel with the left hand side of the darker green strip. Now take a look at the right hand imposed line and the right hand side of the darker green line. Do you see a major problem with that video now ? ( clue - what happens as you move from left to right ? )
Salah is clearly the player closest to where the pitch changes shades of green. Given the lines are parallel with the 18 yard line, he's offside.
I’m not even going to start on the fact that the VAR system does not use the groundsman grass cutting skills to calibrate distance from the goal ...
Edited by jcremonini on Tuesday 12th November 11:00
I do wonder what the accuracy of the lines used to judge offside are?
The cameras often catch offside incidents at a significant angle. Tilt, turn, correction then a computer generated line must have some element of error?
Even a tiny fraction of 1 degree makes a huge difference over 30 yards.
The cameras often catch offside incidents at a significant angle. Tilt, turn, correction then a computer generated line must have some element of error?
Even a tiny fraction of 1 degree makes a huge difference over 30 yards.
I think people really need to understand how perspective works, I've just been on Twitter to look at this and maybe 1 in 100 people understand how it works.
The rest of the morons are commenting that the line isn't straight.
It's not supposed to be, you absolute basic b
hes, spend less time on Twitter frothing at the mouth and use that time to educate yourselves.
The rest of the morons are commenting that the line isn't straight.
It's not supposed to be, you absolute basic b
hes, spend less time on Twitter frothing at the mouth and use that time to educate yourselves.ChevyChase77 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ChevyChase77 said:
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday.
If he was just offside, then he was offside. It he was just onside, he was onside. It's binary. You cannot be insufficiently offside to be onside, or visa versa. If someone big toe is offside, they are offside. If a defender with a big hooter has his nose in front of the attackers big toe, he's onside.
Salah is offside.
That's fine. Knock yourself out. But don't argue that offside isn't binary.
PHuzzy said:
I think people really need to understand how perspective works, I've just been on Twitter to look at this and maybe 1 in 100 people understand how it works.
The rest of the morons are commenting that the line isn't straight.
It's not supposed to be, you absolute basic bhes, spend less time on Twitter frothing at the mouth and use that time to educate yourselves.
They probably think that there is a point in your typical ‘railway lines into the distance’ scenario where it’s possible to stand on both lines with one foot The rest of the morons are commenting that the line isn't straight.
It's not supposed to be, you absolute basic b
hes, spend less time on Twitter frothing at the mouth and use that time to educate yourselves.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ChevyChase77 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ChevyChase77 said:
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday.
If he was just offside, then he was offside. It he was just onside, he was onside. It's binary. You cannot be insufficiently offside to be onside, or visa versa. If someone big toe is offside, they are offside. If a defender with a big hooter has his nose in front of the attackers big toe, he's onside.
Salah is offside.
That's fine. Knock yourself out. But don't argue that offside isn't binary.
jcremonini said:
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
ChevyChase77 said:
jcremonini said:
It might help if you understood VAR better. The clear and obvious rule does not apply to offsides as that is binary rather than subjective. It has never applied to offsides. So your point is moot.
I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
Offside isn't binary though as Salah was just offside v City on Sunday. I’m still a supporter of VAR but have to admit it’s a joke that the EPL , with all their money and ability to learn from mistakes made from other leagues, have failed to get it right too many times. If you have to look at a foul or handball for more than a few seconds then it’s not clear and obvious, so stop looking at the replays and go back to the referee and his original decision.
https://twitter.com/ManUtdChannel/status/119357589...
Take a look at the lines in the pitch a little closer in relation to the lines they have imposed onto the picture. Note that they adjust the left hand imposed (white) line to be parallel with the left hand side of the darker green strip. Now take a look at the right hand imposed line and the right hand side of the darker green line. Do you see a major problem with that video now ? ( clue - what happens as you move from left to right ? )
Salah is clearly the player closest to where the pitch changes shades of green. Given the lines are parallel with the 18 yard line, he's offside.
I’m not even going to start on the fact that the VAR system does not use the groundsman grass cutting skills to calibrate distance from the goal ...
Edited by jcremonini on Tuesday 12th November 11:00
Hmmmm......
TwigtheWonderkid said:
So you accept offside is binary, but what you're saying is that you think they got the binary decision wrong?
That's fine. Knock yourself out. But don't argue that offside isn't binary.
The offside rule being binary is not the issue. The offside rule has been around for the best part of a hundred years in some form or the other yet this is the first time that humans in the stadium are not able to tell whether someone is onside or not, despite referees and linesman doing a pretty good job over the years (on the whole, something that their historic actions should be getting more credit for now). What's the point of a rule if the people playing and watching cannot determine compliance with it? Some of these decisions are being overturned in situations that it is not physically possible to determine with the human eye at game speed, so regardless of whether it's "correct" or not, it's idiotic.That's fine. Knock yourself out. But don't argue that offside isn't binary.
IMO the most important point that people (Twig especially) made before this came in was that decisions even out over the season. That's always been generally, true, and despite VAR, that has not changed, and doesn't seem to be about to change. If it's still "some you win, some you lose" then the question really is "what's the f
king point in VAR?"Exactly the point I've been making - VAR has just exasperated the problem. Because with the 'benefit' of replays they're still being as inconsistent as they were prior to VAR. So unless it's something absolutely obvious, like an off ball incident where a punch has been thrown and the officials missed it - what's the point of it?
Another strange thing I read is Mike Riley is not allowed to officiate Liverpool games but it's OK for him to be in charge of VAR for them?
Another strange thing I read is Mike Riley is not allowed to officiate Liverpool games but it's OK for him to be in charge of VAR for them?
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