Will VAR Change Football for the Better?
Discussion
I'm struggling with the interpretation of 'clear and obvious' as to me it's subjective. No doubt someone will quote what PGMOL says it is, but what is CAO to one may not be to another when you consider how much acting and faking goes on. Consistency is a debate of its own and club/player/referee personalities/reputations are also factors.
Martinelli's goal was chalked off for an alleged foul which the referee confirmed after a review. There are countless comparisons which support both sides of 'clear and obvious'. Some given, others not.
Martinelli's goal was chalked off for an alleged foul which the referee confirmed after a review. There are countless comparisons which support both sides of 'clear and obvious'. Some given, others not.
I was getting ready to take my lad training when it happened so didn't see the replays properly; Lisbon v Arsenal last night. Martinelli was shown a yellow card for impeding the goalkeeper but it looked harsh. I heard the commentators mention Xhaka looking more the guilty party if anything.
As this conversation was taking place, the referee tuned into VAR and reached for his yellow card and starts to draw the invisible screen. It looked like he was about to reverse his decision but instead, he fumbled the card back in and quickly signaled for the game to restart.
I'd love to hear what the conversation there was.
As this conversation was taking place, the referee tuned into VAR and reached for his yellow card and starts to draw the invisible screen. It looked like he was about to reverse his decision but instead, he fumbled the card back in and quickly signaled for the game to restart.
I'd love to hear what the conversation there was.
LF5335 said:
I’m not digging because I’m making the same point that you and three other Spurs supporters refuse to see, because we’re discussing Kane.
Kane got tapped in the face. His reaction was delayed and massively exaggerated so that he knew that if the ref, or linesman didn’t see it that there would be a VAR review. In this case the ref saw it and dealt with it, but he still massively overreacted precisely because VAR is there. If overreacting and trying to ensure an opponent gets sent off isn’t cheating, then it’s pretty damn close to it. Exactly the same as when Fernandes gets tackled and hits the floor, squealing and rolling around like a pussy.
Players are playing up the the VAR cameras to try to get red cards for opponents. VAR is happy to get involved and hold the game up while they trawl the video frame by frame. All tackles look worse in slow motion, many will have a frame that doesn’t look good when taken out of context.
Anyway, I’m done, one of you can claim I’ve stopped digging or whatever, but I’m not wasting time on this. I know where my opinion on VAR sits.
VAR continues to not make the game better.
Kane also went down holding the opposite side of his face. Kane got tapped in the face. His reaction was delayed and massively exaggerated so that he knew that if the ref, or linesman didn’t see it that there would be a VAR review. In this case the ref saw it and dealt with it, but he still massively overreacted precisely because VAR is there. If overreacting and trying to ensure an opponent gets sent off isn’t cheating, then it’s pretty damn close to it. Exactly the same as when Fernandes gets tackled and hits the floor, squealing and rolling around like a pussy.
Players are playing up the the VAR cameras to try to get red cards for opponents. VAR is happy to get involved and hold the game up while they trawl the video frame by frame. All tackles look worse in slow motion, many will have a frame that doesn’t look good when taken out of context.
Anyway, I’m done, one of you can claim I’ve stopped digging or whatever, but I’m not wasting time on this. I know where my opinion on VAR sits.
VAR continues to not make the game better.
The game - or the game rules - have just shown a bunch of players how to push the boundaries to their benefit. 'Oh, head injury, you say?' Down goes a player in the box, holding his head to relive the under siege pressure and take the sting out of the game. The referee cannot roll the dice on these incidents but VAR can see what's going on. A quick buzz on the ref's watch and ask him to look at the blatant simulation on the big screen (so everyone in the stadium can see it) and then push for a five-minute sin bin for the player to get over his injury.
It really doesn't have to be difficult.
I think the idea of VAR in the context of football is - was - potentially a great idea to analyse, monitor and highlight what the referee might have missed. Bearing in mind, he/she still has two assistants.
The problem is, they can't get it right. What they are trying is farcical (let's not forget the chap in the Europa Cup whose job was stand on the edge of the box). Broadly speaking they're getting it wrong. I think the rules they are trying to interpret to us aren't being applied on the pitch. There's also one thing they aren't considering, and that is most football players are cheats. The whole idea of the game is to beat your opponent and if you are both equal to it, the only way to do that is to deceive him. Now that there are extra rules, quite nuanced rules, it's given the deception element another dimension. Such as, 'the referee must stop the game if there is a head injury'. Cue the acting. The slightest nudge and the player goes down clutching his head. This is where VAR needs to act. If it's that obvious, call it, but they're afraid of getting it wrong (ironic) in which case, if there is a head injury, the player should come off for a fixed period of time to be assessed, or the Stockley Park mince pies should be 'having a closer look' and pointing out that it's clear simulation. There's so much cheating going on it's unruly.
Also, why spend so much time measuring where the hang of the elbow is against the last 'heel' of defence to assess off-sides? A player isn't going to score with his elbow; an attacking player doesn't gain any kind of advantage by being 1.01cm of a toe behind a defender's crooked knee. It's pathetic.
It's also pathetic that they get involved to great lengths to chalk off goals or even award penalties when they don't buzz the ref to tell him that the goalkick he has just awarded was in fact a corner, or that the ball came off the other player and the throw-in is for the other side.
The role of the VAR isn't fit for purpose if they are not assisting. There should be clear sanctions for any backchat to the referee; sin bins for those who persistently berrate the referee for his decisions. Let the game flow and let the referee officiate. If he misses anything (and not just off-sides and penalty decisions) stop play and get it on the big screen. Let's hear what's being said. Let there be an open discussion for all to hear.
Also, if we can lipread so can the VARs. If they (officials) want better respect, tighter rules are needed. Dissent: "you all know the rules. Any hint of it and it'll be a five-minute sin bin". Look at Klopp when they pinched the winner yesterday. There needs to be a sanction for that as the whole idea of respect needs to be consistent and from the top.
The problem is, they can't get it right. What they are trying is farcical (let's not forget the chap in the Europa Cup whose job was stand on the edge of the box). Broadly speaking they're getting it wrong. I think the rules they are trying to interpret to us aren't being applied on the pitch. There's also one thing they aren't considering, and that is most football players are cheats. The whole idea of the game is to beat your opponent and if you are both equal to it, the only way to do that is to deceive him. Now that there are extra rules, quite nuanced rules, it's given the deception element another dimension. Such as, 'the referee must stop the game if there is a head injury'. Cue the acting. The slightest nudge and the player goes down clutching his head. This is where VAR needs to act. If it's that obvious, call it, but they're afraid of getting it wrong (ironic) in which case, if there is a head injury, the player should come off for a fixed period of time to be assessed, or the Stockley Park mince pies should be 'having a closer look' and pointing out that it's clear simulation. There's so much cheating going on it's unruly.
Also, why spend so much time measuring where the hang of the elbow is against the last 'heel' of defence to assess off-sides? A player isn't going to score with his elbow; an attacking player doesn't gain any kind of advantage by being 1.01cm of a toe behind a defender's crooked knee. It's pathetic.
It's also pathetic that they get involved to great lengths to chalk off goals or even award penalties when they don't buzz the ref to tell him that the goalkick he has just awarded was in fact a corner, or that the ball came off the other player and the throw-in is for the other side.
The role of the VAR isn't fit for purpose if they are not assisting. There should be clear sanctions for any backchat to the referee; sin bins for those who persistently berrate the referee for his decisions. Let the game flow and let the referee officiate. If he misses anything (and not just off-sides and penalty decisions) stop play and get it on the big screen. Let's hear what's being said. Let there be an open discussion for all to hear.
Also, if we can lipread so can the VARs. If they (officials) want better respect, tighter rules are needed. Dissent: "you all know the rules. Any hint of it and it'll be a five-minute sin bin". Look at Klopp when they pinched the winner yesterday. There needs to be a sanction for that as the whole idea of respect needs to be consistent and from the top.
Edited by Glassman on Monday 1st May 16:35
johnboy1975 said:
Hadn't heard about this until today, the Premier league are giving up behind the scenes footage / audio surrounding controversial decisions
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/premier-...
If it's not hosted by Helen Chamberlain, Tim Lovejoy, Matt Lucas and Ellis James it won't be worth watching. https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/premier-...
said:
The conversations behind the major decisions of the weekend will not be broadcast live, as clips will be played and discussed as part of a pilot show from Premier League Productions on Monday, May 15.
In the Leeds v Newcastle game, a penalty was awarded for handball. In all the replays, the player's hand was up there 'to' the ball, however the spin on the ball was not affected, neither did the trajectory appear to change. The attacker got his header off but it was way off target.
What was the decision on that, handball or intent?
What was the decision on that, handball or intent?
Wonderman said:
Apologies if already posted but lessons are being learned...oh or not:
"Sacked referee reinstated by PGMOL despite huge blunder in Arsenal game
Lee Mason, the referee who was sacked after making a horrific blunder in an Arsenal match last season, has been reinstated by the PGMOL.
As reported by the Daily Mail, Mason has been rehired by the referees’ body to help train up new officials."
https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/09/lee-mason-reinstate...
There are no words. "Sacked referee reinstated by PGMOL despite huge blunder in Arsenal game
Lee Mason, the referee who was sacked after making a horrific blunder in an Arsenal match last season, has been reinstated by the PGMOL.
As reported by the Daily Mail, Mason has been rehired by the referees’ body to help train up new officials."
https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/09/lee-mason-reinstate...
Why isn't VAR getting involved in other wrongly awarded decisions?
How many times have we seen a corner or throw-in awarded to the attacking team when it clearly came off their player?
Also, when everyone can see the player that went down holding his head was clearly faking it, that player should be taken off for a mandatory period of time, 'for his own safety', before he can continue. Not enough is being done to combat cheating yet we are being subject to minutes of someone rolling a VT back and forth to see if one cm of a knee was offside.
How many times have we seen a corner or throw-in awarded to the attacking team when it clearly came off their player?
Also, when everyone can see the player that went down holding his head was clearly faking it, that player should be taken off for a mandatory period of time, 'for his own safety', before he can continue. Not enough is being done to combat cheating yet we are being subject to minutes of someone rolling a VT back and forth to see if one cm of a knee was offside.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Glassman said:
Why isn't VAR getting involved in other wrongly awarded decisions?
How many times have we seen a corner or throw-in awarded to the attacking team when it clearly came off their player?
Christ, we waste too much time with the VAR crap already. And you want it expanded to cover even more decisions?? Ffs, you cannot be a football fan. You just can't. How many times have we seen a corner or throw-in awarded to the attacking team when it clearly came off their player?
Am I allowed to be a fan now?
Bluevanman said:
The "disallowed" Bayern goal wasn't because of VAR but because of human error.
The Real winner was because VAR worked.
How many games/cups/titles have been lost due to human error!The Real winner was because VAR worked.
If VAR can get the referee to have a look at the pitch-side monitor and review his on-field decision, are they saying a lino can make a wrong call but it's play on due it being a human error?
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