The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 8)

[ORD]

GTO-3R said:

Matic has been much better under Ole but he's still too static. We could do with a Guendouzi / Kante type alongside Herrera imo.

I agree with this. I think the CBs could do with more protection.

What does Matic really do? He's a much less capable version of Michael Carrick.

[anniesdad]

Dominate possession, have better ballers on the ball and you'll protect the CB's that way. City as an example dominate the ball and are only really opened up on the counter or through set pieces.

[anniesdad]

ORD said:

I agree with this. I think the CBs could do with more protection.

What does Matic really do? He's a much less capable version of Michael Carrick.

He rarely loses the ball in 50/50 situations. He seems really strong in possession but gives the ball away cheaply at times but all players are guilty of that. He is very one footed though. That said he started a counter against Spurs with a nice right footed longer pass to I think Lingard. His height us useful too so if we do get rid of Fellaini, that would be a factor.

[ORD]

anniesdad said:

He rarely loses the ball in 50/50 situations. He seems really strong in possession but gives the ball away cheaply at times but all players are guilty of that. He is very one footed though. That said he started a counter against Spurs with a nice right footed longer pass to I think Lingard. His height us useful too so if we do get rid of Fellaini, that would be a factor.

All true. He has certain strengths. But he also has glaring weaknesses (terrible right foot, slow as a slow thing, etc).

I don't mind him, but I think we should be trying to do better.

[57Ford]

Can we keep Fellaini but offer them Lukaku for the same price? They might quibble a bit but I think we could force them into it and we could then play Fella up front in those situations where Donkey would have had to be used.

[GTO-3R]

ORD said:

anniesdad said:

He rarely loses the ball in 50/50 situations. He seems really strong in possession but gives the ball away cheaply at times but all players are guilty of that. He is very one footed though. That said he started a counter against Spurs with a nice right footed longer pass to I think Lingard. His height us useful too so if we do get rid of Fellaini, that would be a factor.

All true. He has certain strengths. But he also has glaring weaknesses (terrible right foot, slow as a slow thing, etc).

I don't mind him, but I think we should be trying to do better.

He does a lot of things well but there's just something that is missing form his game and for me its pace and the ability to drive the team forward with the ball at his feet. I do like him a lot though and he's certainly filled the gap we were lacking in!

[so called]

57Ford said:

Can we keep Fellaini but offer them Lukaku for the same price? They might quibble a bit but I think we could force them into it and we could then play Fella up front in those situations where Donkey would have had to be used.

+1

Since he arrived Lukaku has put on tons of muscle mass.
He's lost his mobility and seems to spends most of his time avoiding chasing the ball, running into space, running down opposition etc., etc.
Maybe we could swap him and get Welbeck back, at least he moves around and puts in honest graft.

Fellaini gets stuck in, upsets the opposition and is so good at find space in the box on set pieces.

Edited by so called on Wednesday 16th January 12:39

[anniesdad]

GTO-3R said:

ORD said:

anniesdad said:

He rarely loses the ball in 50/50 situations. He seems really strong in possession but gives the ball away cheaply at times but all players are guilty of that. He is very one footed though. That said he started a counter against Spurs with a nice right footed longer pass to I think Lingard. His height us useful too so if we do get rid of Fellaini, that would be a factor.

All true. He has certain strengths. But he also has glaring weaknesses (terrible right foot, slow as a slow thing, etc).

I don't mind him, but I think we should be trying to do better.

He does a lot of things well but there's just something that is missing form his game and for me its pace and the ability to drive the team forward with the ball at his feet. I do like him a lot though and he's certainly filled the gap we were lacking in!

I think he can do that, under Mourinho he had to sit but he can carry the ball. As I say, he's strong in possession. If others like Pogba/Lingard/Sanchez can position themselves to receive the ball in dangerous areas from him then it's game on.

I'd like him to be a little better balanced though with a great left foot and a good right foot.

[anniesdad]

so called said:

57Ford said:

Can we keep Fellaini but offer them Lukaku for the same price? They might quibble a bit but I think we could force them into it and we could then play Fella up front in those situations where Donkey would have had to be used.

+1

Since he arrived Lukaku has put on tons of muscle mass.
He's lost his mobility and seems to spends most of his time avoiding chasing the ball, running into space, running down opposition etc., etc.
Maybe we could swap him and get Welbeck back, at least he moves around and puts in honest graft.

Fellaini gets stuck in, upsets the opposition and is so good at find space in the box on set pieces.

Edited by so called on Wednesday 16th January 12:39

Lukaku is a box player plain and simple but if you can play to his strengths then he can be unplayable. I agree, he needs to sharpen up and to lose some bulk. Tony V bulked up and seems to have lost that speed over the years. Granted he's getting on in years but Ronaldo doesn't appear to have slowed down despite being older.

[57Ford]

anniesdad said:

Lukaku is a box player plain and simple but if you can play to his strengths then he can be unplayable.

I’d love to see some stats based on the minutes Fella’s been pushed on as an auxiliary centre forward vs Lukaku though. Fellaini can win a header to flick it on in a very similar manner but what’s different is that he’s also capable of bringing it down, controlling it and shielding it before laying off a decent pass to a team mate. These things are useful when you need to relieve the pressure. I agree he’s not really what we want but I reckon he’s a serious upgrade as a forward and worth keeping as cover for Matic until a replacement can be got in.

[ORD]

anniesdad said:

Lukaku is a box player plain and simple but if you can play to his strengths then he can be unplayable. I agree, he needs to sharpen up and to lose some bulk. Tony V bulked up and seems to have lost that speed over the years. Granted he's getting on in years but Ronaldo doesn't appear to have slowed down despite being older.

Overall, I think Fellaini is better than Lukaku at his role. Pretty damning for Lukaku. Fellaini is undoubtedly better in the air (vastly better), is barely any slower and has a better touch.

Also, I don't think all (or anything like all) of his weight gain is muscle mass. I think he has hit the pies hard - you don't generally put on muscle on your face!

[GTO-3R]

57Ford said:

anniesdad said:

Lukaku is a box player plain and simple but if you can play to his strengths then he can be unplayable.

I’d love to see some stats based on the minutes Fella’s been pushed on as an auxiliary centre forward vs Lukaku though. Fellaini can win a header to flick it on in a very similar manner but what’s different is that he’s also capable of bringing it down, controlling it and shielding it before laying off a decent pass to a team mate. These things are useful when you need to relieve the pressure. I agree he’s not really what we want but I reckon he’s a serious upgrade as a forward and worth keeping as cover for Matic until a replacement can be got in.

He's not good enough as a defensive midfielder. He used to be a 10 / striker at one point! Whilst I think he does a great job coming on at 70/80 mins to hold a lead or grab a win, he's not a starter for us.

[anonymous-user]

57Ford said:

I’d love to see some stats based on the minutes Fella’s been pushed on as an auxiliary centre forward vs Lukaku though. Fellaini can win a header to flick it on in a very similar manner but what’s different is that he’s also capable of bringing it down, controlling it and shielding it before laying off a decent pass to a team mate. These things are useful when you need to relieve the pressure. I agree he’s not really what we want but I reckon he’s a serious upgrade as a forward and worth keeping as cover for Matic until a replacement can be got in.

Probably not exactly what you were after but it was discussed on the Caf the other day (caveat I am just lifting someones post in full so it may be wrong)

I love these kind of debates, because we get to do some digging into his stats and see if this "option off the bench" stuff is a valid point, or not

Fellaini signed for united on the 3rd of September 2013, in the that season he made 19 apps and scored (according to https://www.premierleague.com/players/3604/Marouan... 0 goals, and assisted in one goal.

In the 2014/15 season he made 27 appearances, scored 6 goals (three headers, two right footed finishes one left footed finish) and assisted with 0 goals.
In the 2015/2016 season he made 18 appearances scored, scored 1 goal (right footed finish) and assisted with 0 goals
in the 2016/2017 season he made 28 appearances scored scored 1 goal (header) and assisted with 0 goals.
in the 2017/28 season he made 16 appearances scored 4 goals (two headers, two right footed finishes) and assisted with 0 goals.
So far this season he has made 14 appearances scored 0 goals, and assisted with 1 goal.


In his time with the club so far, he has scored 6 headed goals in 103 appearances, for points he has earned from coming off the bench, all I can find is a the equaliser in a stty 2-2 draw with west brom.

On face value, bringing him on doesn't actually achieve anything, he doesn't score many goals, half his incredible 12 goal tally have been headers, he contributes even less with his assists.

I dont think people actually are being harsh on him (me being one of them) when they say he has been utter wk for most his time with the club, and any points earned that could be attributed to him in some way, are vastly outweighed by the points lost due to his terrible performances in the games he has played.

[ORD]

He doesn't get assists or goals, but what he does do is cause havoc, allowing other people to grab goals and assists. I think he is a tolerably effective target man.

It is hard to overstate quite how dreadful Lukaku has been this season. Some of his performances are amongst the worst I have ever seen from a Utd player - criminal first touch; never winning headers; passes to nobody and off the pitch; etc.

[57Ford]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Thanks Keyser. I guess those are the stats but as ORD says, when he plays up front he's not about scoring or even about creating assists, he's a target man to win it, hold it and lay it off while others play the killer pass and finish. Thankfully we don't have to suffer Lukaku at the moment because Rashford, Lingard and Martial are doing well so Ole's sticking with it but if we did need to change one of them and I had MF and RL on the bench, I'd choose Fella every single time.

[anonymous-user]

57Ford said:

Thanks Keyser. I guess those are the stats but as ORD says, when he plays up front he's not about scoring or even about creating assists, he's a target man to win it, hold it and lay it off while others play the killer pass and finish. Thankfully we don't have to suffer Lukaku at the moment because Rashford, Lingard and Martial are doing well so Ole's sticking with it but if we did need to change one of them and I had MF and RL on the bench, I'd choose Fella every single time.

Yeah understood

I think for me its more a principle thing

1) He's an example of everything that has been wrong with Utd since SAF left, he was never ever Utd quality and never will be
2) I think it forces/encourages a style of bad play, same with Lukaku really, if you have a big man up there, the players will look for him and we end up hoofing it up

I'd rather if we need a last minute surge to bring Lukaku on (he can score goals) or even give Chong/Greenwood on and jsut tell them to fearlessly take people on

Its all personal preference though and I can (just about) see an argument for Fellaini in the last few minutes but its really not for me

[anniesdad]

ORD said:

He doesn't get assists or goals, but what he does do is cause havoc, allowing other people to grab goals and assists. I think he is a tolerably effective target man.

It is hard to overstate quite how dreadful Lukaku has been this season. Some of his performances are amongst the worst I have ever seen from a Utd player - criminal first touch; never winning headers; passes to nobody and off the pitch; etc.

I've seen far better footballers with the ball at their feet than Lukaku but i think the biggest thing with him is confidence.....it's shot.

He's still, despite his bulk and appearance quite a young man and his recent rests from the team I wouldn't be surprised to hear if these were voluntarily requested by him. He isn't physically injured.

[anonymous-user]

anniesdad said:

I've seen far better footballers with the ball at their feet than Lukaku but i think the biggest thing with him is confidence.....it's shot.

He's still, despite his bulk and appearance quite a young man and his recent rests from the team I wouldn't be surprised to hear if these were voluntarily requested by him. He isn't physically injured.

Having seen the difference in the team currently everyone gets a free pass from me at the moment, even Rom and Sanchez

I'm also interested to see what we've actually bought in Fred, think there are glimpses of a decent midfielder in there

Agree completely on the confidence thing and some players will recover that quicker than others

[57Ford]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I definitely agree with that and still have high hopes he can be a 90% Kante for us given a little time.

[ORD]

57Ford said:

I definitely agree with that and still have high hopes he can be a 90% Kante for us given a little time.

The crazy thing is that he could be excellent. We just don't know. Mourinho made everyone look terrible, so the new player are still unknowns.