What the **** is wrong with people?

[pavarotti1980]

lrdisco said:

Sorry but your comment is so football. You proved in that post everything that is wrong in the football supporting community.

Really? In what way? I am interested in how you come to that conclusion

[bad company]

C70R said:

It wasn't my son. It was a friend's son who we were taking as a treat.

What do you think would have happened to that bloke if he'd done that on Oxford Street, in earshot of a police officer?

The fact that it's so normalised that you can be blase about it says everything.

You wouldn’t hear such language at the vicar’s tea party I’ll give you that.

[Flip Martian]

mickk said:

I was just about to clip that

I had to go for a lie down after. I can only just breathe again

[gazza285]

C70R said:

Does it?

I don't live in the most upmarket part of London, but I can't recall the last time I heard someone screaming that kind of stuff at the top of their voice in the street.

Perhaps they take their throw-ins quicker there.

[WindyCommon]

C70R said:

…

The fact that it's so normalised that you can be blase about it says everything.

Random, non-argumentative thread visitor here.

I agree with C70R. There are deep-seated issues with spectator behaviour at football matches, and it’s not ok. The observation earlier in the thread about shouty men making obscene hand gestures while bellowing abuse every time a player approaches the touchline for a throw-in or corner kick is spot on. Watch a football match on TV and you’ll see this every time. It’s a toxic environment and the toxic behaviours it permits have somehow become normalised.

It’s not ok.

[bad company]

WindyCommon said:

Random, non-argumentative thread visitor here.

I agree with C70R. There are deep-seated issues with spectator behaviour at football matches, and it’s not ok. The observation earlier in the thread about shouty men making obscene hand gestures while bellowing abuse every time a player approaches the touchline for a throw-in or corner kick is spot on. Watch a football match on TV and you’ll see this every time. It’s a toxic environment and the toxic behaviours it permits have somehow become normalised.

It’s not ok.

No you won’t see such behaviour ‘every time’. I watch Premiership football on a regular basis both live and on tv. The behaviour you describe is very rare.

[mickk]

Exactly I think these people that observe bad behaviour at football matches just remember those incidents, watching a lot of football you very rarely see it unless the press or cameras highlight it.

[Murph7355]

mickk said:

Exactly I think these people that observe bad behaviour at football matches just remember those incidents, watching a lot of football you very rarely see it unless the press or cameras highlight it.

Not convinced (though admittedly haven't spent years studying it with a body of evidence ).

We've started to watch a good bit more live football on TV, and you can see it from the crowds behind the goal etc (so doesn't have to be focused on) regularly (hand shandy signs, venom in the way people are shouting).

A long time ago I used to watch ManUtd play their home games and the same was apparent at every game. Even in the more "family friendly" areas the casual racism, yelling abuse and hand signs were common (as in every single game it would be apparent).

I won't take my kids to league games at the moment - at 10 and 7 I don't want them exposed to the stty behaviour of some attendees. (I've taken them to internationals and the family sections there are fine...though Hungary fans kicking off with the police wasn't great).

Football has a real problem with this, and it always will have while ever it's "someone else's problem" to solve (e.g. "more police").

The clubs need hitting hard for the piss poor behaviour of their crowds. If they are, they will find solutions for it. Right now I hear lots of commentators saying something should be done, but they always avoid pinning it on the clubs on the back of "but the innocent fans lose out then"...tough bananas. The innocent fans need to help, and start making shoddy behaviour socially unacceptable. And the clubs and players need to back them up properly.

[egor110]

How do clubs tackle it ?

If fans kick off stewards aren't physically able to do anything , combine that with there being less police how do you attempt to change things ?

I guess docking points and banning fans until you've got rid of the trouble makers ?

[bad company]

egor110 said:

How do clubs tackle it ?

If fans kick off stewards aren't physically able to do anything , combine that with there being less police how do you attempt to change things ?

I guess docking points and banning fans until you've got rid of the trouble makers ?

Depends what you mean by ‘it’.

I haven’t seen or heard anything bad at football for ages. The recent pitch invasions need dealing with though. Deduction of points should do the trick, it’d then become self policing.

[WindyCommon]

bad company said:

No you won’t see such behaviour ‘every time’. I watch Premiership football on a regular basis both live and on tv. The behaviour you describe is very rare.

I also watch premiership football on a regular basis both live and on tv.

Angry abuse (both verbal and through hand signals) directed toward players on the pitch is anything but rare. It is very much the norm for a visible component of the fan-base, and - as such - tacitly endorsed by the sport as a whole.

Whilst the game has moved forward and changed for the better since the dark days of organised violence between opposing fans and racist chanting en masse, the journey is far from over. As a society we don't tolerate people screaming abuse at others going about their work. Football continues to be greatly diminished by the appalling anti-social behaviours of a core group among its spectators, and the efforts of football-loving deniers, what-abouters and excuse-makers are misdirected.

It's not ok.

[C70R]

egor110 said:

How do clubs tackle it ?

If fans kick off stewards aren't physically able to do anything , combine that with there being less police how do you attempt to change things ?

I guess docking points and banning fans until you've got rid of the trouble makers ?

I thought someone previously said that stadiums were "covered with CCTV", and that anyone misbehaving would be "dealt with"?

The problem is, as others have been brave enough to also mention, that absolutely disgusting behaviour that has no place in a civilised society has become normalised at football matches.

I've said it multiple times, but I would be arrested for public order offences if I did many of the things that are considered 'normal' for fans at football matches anywhere else.

Fellow fans are apathetic (or hostile enough to tell me to "find another sport" if I don't like it). Clubs and leagues are petrified of upsetting the gravy train.

Look at this. Look at these people. Are they your allies? Are you happy to defend their right to this behaviour? Do you think the mixture of apathy and laughing around them is ok?



Anyone trying to say that this kind of abuse (not specifically this racist incident) doesn't happen in every single match is plain lying. This wasn't a heated local derby, with a marketing-manufactured 'rivalry'.

These 'fans' were only banned because they used racist language, not because they were quite obviously directly abusing a 24-year old bloke doing his job. Had they not used racist language, absolutely zero action would have been taken.

Curiously, none of the dozens of 'fans' surrounding them in this particular incident thought that directed racial abuse was bad enough to warrant reporting it to a steward. It took the player reporting it to his club for any action to happen.

Edited by C70R on Wednesday 25th May 11:31

[bad company]

I count 5 angry faces in that picture, the rest seem to be looking elsewhere or not bothered. Anyway that doesn’t happen every week.

[WindyCommon]

bad company said:

I count 5 angry faces in that picture, the rest seem to be looking elsewhere or not bothered. Anyway that doesn’t happen every week.

And there is the problem. Unacceptable behaviour is tacitly supported by football fans.

[bad company]

WindyCommon said:

bad company said:

I count 5 angry faces in that picture, the rest seem to be looking elsewhere or not bothered. Anyway that doesn’t happen every week.

And there is the problem. Unacceptable behaviour is tacitly supported by football fans.

I wouldn’t say supported, tolerated would be a more appropriate word. If I’d been there I’d also have ignored the bad behaviour though if it really was racist it needed dealing with and I think was.

[Zoon]

bad company said:

I count 5 angry faces in that picture, the rest seem to be looking elsewhere or not bothered. Anyway that doesn’t happen every week.

I can see at least 8

[WindyCommon]

bad company said:

WindyCommon said:

bad company said:

I count 5 angry faces in that picture, the rest seem to be looking elsewhere or not bothered. Anyway that doesn’t happen every week.

And there is the problem. Unacceptable behaviour is tacitly supported by football fans.

I wouldn’t say supported, tolerated would be a more appropriate word. If I’d been there I’d also have ignored the bad behaviour though if it really was racist it needed dealing with and I think was.

I said "tacitly supported".

Not challenging others over unacceptable behaviours - even if only to show your disgust - is supporting them. As you say, most seem to be not bothered.

[mickk]

bad company said:

I wouldn’t say supported, tolerated would be a more appropriate word. If I’d been there I’d also have ignored the bad behaviour though if it really was racist it needed dealing with and I think was.

It was dealt with, those fans in that pic were prosecuted and rightly so

[C70R]

bad company said:

WindyCommon said:

bad company said:

I count 5 angry faces in that picture, the rest seem to be looking elsewhere or not bothered. Anyway that doesn’t happen every week.

And there is the problem. Unacceptable behaviour is tacitly supported by football fans.

I wouldn’t say supported, tolerated would be a more appropriate word. If I’d been there I’d also have ignored the bad behaviour though if it really was racist it needed dealing with and I think was.

The example in the picture was racism.

Not one single person in that photo reported the racist behaviour. Not a soul.

It took the player reporting it to his club for any action to be taken.

I'm sure you'll now start telling me about how football grounds are noisy places, and that you're sure they didn't hear it etc.

[C70R]

mickk said:

bad company said:

I wouldn’t say supported, tolerated would be a more appropriate word. If I’d been there I’d also have ignored the bad behaviour though if it really was racist it needed dealing with and I think was.

It was dealt with, those fans in that pic were prosecuted and rightly so

Correct.

But if they hadn't said anything racist, absolutely zero action would have been taken against them. Nothing. And I know this because it happens in every single game I watch on TV or in-person.

Look at them. Look at that picture. Imagine they aren't saying anything racist. Does that somehow make it OK?