The Official Tottenham Hotspud thread [Vol 12]
Discussion
jammy-git said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Doesn't matter what frame rate or definition they use, there will always be a margin of error by it's very nature.
Say for example they used 100fps, at some point there must have been a case where at that definition, you could tell that a player wasn't offside. Yet at broadcast fps (which is more likely to be 25fps anyway) it appears that they are offside. How many incidents have you seen where it appears a players toe/elbow is offside and it's not been given as such? There would be cases where there would be daylight between the players being given and vice versa. It would be even more farcical than it is if the footage being reviewed is not the same as that which is being broadcast and used to explain the decision to punters.
So? There will be a point at which the offside technology is as good as the goal-line tech, at which point no one will dispute the decisions whether they look onside from a particular angle or not.Say for example they used 100fps, at some point there must have been a case where at that definition, you could tell that a player wasn't offside. Yet at broadcast fps (which is more likely to be 25fps anyway) it appears that they are offside. How many incidents have you seen where it appears a players toe/elbow is offside and it's not been given as such? There would be cases where there would be daylight between the players being given and vice versa. It would be even more farcical than it is if the footage being reviewed is not the same as that which is being broadcast and used to explain the decision to punters.
TEKNOPUG said:
Goal line is simple binary; single camera no time issues. Offside can never be as accurate. There will always be margins of error when using cameras. You'd have to have something like lasers automatically tracking the players and the ball and calculating their positions hundreds of times a second. Even then it would be subjective as you'd need someone to determine when the forward pass was made. I can't imagine a scenario whereby a computer could automatically determine offside 100% without human assistance.
People who have designed the goal line technology are already on with it, doubt it will be long till we see something better. What bothers at the moment is why do they use the line that is say 5 pixels when they can use the line that's 1?
See here
m3sye said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Goal line is simple binary; single camera no time issues. Offside can never be as accurate. There will always be margins of error when using cameras. You'd have to have something like lasers automatically tracking the players and the ball and calculating their positions hundreds of times a second. Even then it would be subjective as you'd need someone to determine when the forward pass was made. I can't imagine a scenario whereby a computer could automatically determine offside 100% without human assistance.
People who have designed the goal line technology are already on with it, doubt it will be long till we see something better. What bothers at the moment is why do they use the line that is say 5 pixels when they can use the line that's 1?
See here
Goal line technology is straightforward. It is a matter of fact. There is a definition of what it means for a ball to have crossed a line, the authorities can set up cameras and technology to measure that, since the camera position, zoom, target line etc etc are fixed there will be a constant margin of error, its about as controlled an environment as you can possibly hope to create in a live sport. No one these days argues if a ball as crossed a line or not. We accept the margin of error because of the quality of the inputs.
Offside decisions are totally different. They are not a single matter of fact but two matters of fact - when was the ball kicked, what is the position of the most advanced attacker relative to the second-last defensive player. There can only be so many cameras along the side of the pitch. Repeat variables/argument I posted above. But TL;DR version say for example there is an average margin of error of 10cm - to judge someone offside from their armpit is a nonsense.
48k said:
The broadcasters will tell you they thicken the line so it's more obvious to the viewer. That is not the problem.
Goal line technology is straightforward. It is a matter of fact. There is a definition of what it means for a ball to have crossed a line, the authorities can set up cameras and technology to measure that, since the camera position, zoom, target line etc etc are fixed there will be a constant margin of error, its about as controlled an environment as you can possibly hope to create in a live sport. No one these days argues if a ball as crossed a line or not. We accept the margin of error because of the quality of the inputs.
Offside decisions are totally different. They are not a single matter of fact but two matters of fact - when was the ball kicked, what is the position of the most advanced attacker relative to the second-last defensive player. There can only be so many cameras along the side of the pitch. Repeat variables/argument I posted above. But TL;DR version say for example there is an average margin of error of 10cm - to judge someone offside from their armpit is a nonsense.
This is what I had heard aboutGoal line technology is straightforward. It is a matter of fact. There is a definition of what it means for a ball to have crossed a line, the authorities can set up cameras and technology to measure that, since the camera position, zoom, target line etc etc are fixed there will be a constant margin of error, its about as controlled an environment as you can possibly hope to create in a live sport. No one these days argues if a ball as crossed a line or not. We accept the margin of error because of the quality of the inputs.
Offside decisions are totally different. They are not a single matter of fact but two matters of fact - when was the ball kicked, what is the position of the most advanced attacker relative to the second-last defensive player. There can only be so many cameras along the side of the pitch. Repeat variables/argument I posted above. But TL;DR version say for example there is an average margin of error of 10cm - to judge someone offside from their armpit is a nonsense.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/s...
m3sye said:
Firstly, I don't understand what the back foot has to do with anything when they are currently giving offiside based on the position of someone's armpit?Secondly, this is nothing about increasing accuracy or implementing margins of error, it's simply to make the decision quicker by automatically determining the position of the last defender and therefore the "offside" line.
Of course, this is still dependent upon when the forward pass was made and it's this variable that will also cause an error margin.
Adam B said:
Pleased with your draw lads?
RB Leipzig are no mugs
I don't think it matters who you play now. There are no easy games and at some stage you are going to have to play someone very good to get to the final.RB Leipzig are no mugs
If anything, better to play a top club now whilst they are still competing for multiple trophies, than later when they only have CL.
TEKNOPUG said:
I don't think it matters who you play now. There are no easy games and at some stage you are going to have to play someone very good to get to the final.
If anything, better to play a top club now whilst they are still competing for multiple trophies, than later when they only have CL.
hmm not sure I buy that though, you will still be fighting for 4th, and FA cupIf anything, better to play a top club now whilst they are still competing for multiple trophies, than later when they only have CL.
and whilst there are no easy games they are easier games, still better to draw a weaker side and let the stronger sides knock each other out
Adam B said:
hmm not sure I buy that though, you will still be fighting for 4th, and FA cup
and whilst there are no easy games they are easier games, still better to draw a weaker side and let the stronger sides knock each other out
It's only the Atalanta v Valencia game that features two weaker sides. If we overcome RB, then we are almost certainly going to play one of the following:and whilst there are no easy games they are easier games, still better to draw a weaker side and let the stronger sides knock each other out
Liverpool
Paris Saint Germain
Chelsea
Bayern Munich
Napoli
Barcelona
Juventus
Real Madrid
Manchester City
It's not like the old European Cup where there are only 4 good teams and you can get to the final without playing any of them. I fully expect plenty of hot balls in the next draw and English sides to be paired up, after last season....
Edited by TEKNOPUG on Monday 16th December 15:17
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