The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 9)
Discussion
unident said:
selym said:
He's being turned into a bad player by having to at in that team with those performances; I wouldn't want the f
king ball either.
Possibly, equally maybe he’s being coached to continually offload the ball. Either way the lad is regressing as a player. He had huge potential to be a bit of a sking ball either.thouse enforcer. On that note, where’s Williams? That kid had passion to spare, instead we get Shaw doing his usual Scott Parker fat arse impression GloverMart said:
That's three or four of your posts I've found myself nodding in agreement at, Unident.
Thank you. Sadly nobody else wants to engage. I'll repeat my previous thoughts, too much hope that Pogba is the chosen one and will come good every game, he simply won't. We've looked better with him as sub.
Telles for Shaw.
Martial /Cavani and Rash up front. A new midfield 3 permutation from the 5 we have including Mata. Our defence wasn't that bad today, not great not bad. Not many chances given away. DDG had the one save to make, pogba chucked away a penalty by sheer clumsiness.
200Plus Club said:
Happy to discuss. We aren't top 6 contenders based on first few games, but last season we were exactly same till January. The players and coaching aren't that bad they don't know how to go on unbeaten runs, I'd suggest we are probably lacking the finesse to pick apart the stubborn awkward teams who can stop us playing. Today's match was awful from both sides, we can't forget that.
I'll repeat my previous thoughts, too much hope that Pogba is the chosen one and will come good every game, he simply won't. We've looked better with him as sub.
Telles for Shaw.
Martial /Cavani and Rash up front. A new midfield 3 permutation from the 5 we have including Mata. Our defence wasn't that bad today, not great not bad. Not many chances given away. DDG had the one save to make, pogba chucked away a penalty by sheer clumsiness.
Pogba is a red herring. He isn’t and has never been the solution. I'll repeat my previous thoughts, too much hope that Pogba is the chosen one and will come good every game, he simply won't. We've looked better with him as sub.
Telles for Shaw.
Martial /Cavani and Rash up front. A new midfield 3 permutation from the 5 we have including Mata. Our defence wasn't that bad today, not great not bad. Not many chances given away. DDG had the one save to make, pogba chucked away a penalty by sheer clumsiness.
We don’t know how to win a game comfortably let alone go on a winning run.
If Mata is being suggested as part of a solution then we are in real trouble. Enid at the end of his career and has never really delivered for us since Moyes signed him 8 years ago.
Cavani isn’t an answer either. He should be a bit part player. He’s well past it. All that sticking plasters like him do is mask the problems we have. Ibrahimovic was exactly that, ditto Larson back in the Fergie days.
Where is the evidence that we are building a team / squad with a defined style?
unident said:
Pogba is a red herring. He isn’t and has never been the solution.
We don’t know how to win a game comfortably let alone go on a winning run.
If Mata is being suggested as part of a solution then we are in real trouble. Enid at the end of his career and has never really delivered for us since Moyes signed him 8 years ago.
Cavani isn’t an answer either. He should be a bit part player. He’s well past it. All that sticking plasters like him do is mask the problems we have. Ibrahimovic was exactly that, ditto Larson back in the Fergie days.
Where is the evidence that we are building a team / squad with a defined style?
I'd suggest some evidence with buying Bruno, Telles, VDB and the very promising youngsters we also picked up. I'd agree however that although fast on the break and very exciting at times (when allowed to be) that we don't have a defined style to break down other teams or that marks out clear progression. We don’t know how to win a game comfortably let alone go on a winning run.
If Mata is being suggested as part of a solution then we are in real trouble. Enid at the end of his career and has never really delivered for us since Moyes signed him 8 years ago.
Cavani isn’t an answer either. He should be a bit part player. He’s well past it. All that sticking plasters like him do is mask the problems we have. Ibrahimovic was exactly that, ditto Larson back in the Fergie days.
Where is the evidence that we are building a team / squad with a defined style?
Fully agree we shouldn't have been buying Cavani even if he turns out like zlatan, I think that was a result of the pressure for another striker and the fact we don't have over €100m euro like many others to throw at Sancho
Mata is a great player on the wane due to age, my take is he should be a sub like pogba while we try and find a working midfield and solid base.
Anyway it's still early days, if we are in the bottom 3rd come the new year then of course the pressure mounts on Ole. Personally I like him and what he represents, and I'm prepared to give him time yet.
200Plus Club said:
. The players and coaching aren't that bad they don't know how to go on unbeaten runs,
I'll repeat my previous thoughts, too much hope that Pogba is the chosen one and will come good every game, he simply won't.
The coaching IS that bad though that they think pogba is the chosen one and will come good every game.I'll repeat my previous thoughts, too much hope that Pogba is the chosen one and will come good every game, he simply won't.
We can all see it-why can’t the manager of Manchester United see it for f
ks sake?200Plus Club said:
I'd suggest some evidence with buying Bruno, Telles, VDB and the very promising youngsters we also picked up. I'd agree however that although fast on the break and very exciting at times (when allowed to be) that we don't have a defined style to break down other teams or that marks out clear progression.
Fully agree we shouldn't have been buying Cavani even if he turns out like zlatan, I think that was a result of the pressure for another striker and the fact we don't have over €100m euro like many others to throw at Sancho
Mata is a great player on the wane due to age, my take is he should be a sub like pogba while we try and find a working midfield and solid base.
Anyway it's still early days, if we are in the bottom 3rd come the new year then of course the pressure mounts on Ole. Personally I like him and what he represents, and I'm prepared to give him time yet.
Telles? Where’s he going to play? Left back? Brilliant, so that’s a promising kid in Williams, who’s actually looks up to the job forced out. Meanwhile a lumbering brick like Maguire continues to play because we paid a load of money of him, much like Pogba. Fully agree we shouldn't have been buying Cavani even if he turns out like zlatan, I think that was a result of the pressure for another striker and the fact we don't have over €100m euro like many others to throw at Sancho
Mata is a great player on the wane due to age, my take is he should be a sub like pogba while we try and find a working midfield and solid base.
Anyway it's still early days, if we are in the bottom 3rd come the new year then of course the pressure mounts on Ole. Personally I like him and what he represents, and I'm prepared to give him time yet.
Ole won’t play VDB. What’s the point signing someone who actually can be useful and then not play them? I’m not convinced by the stuff about physicality, stuff that, he’s good enough and we’ve got four midfield slots available. You’re telling me he’s only good enough for 5th spot on the bench?
Cavani is past it, he’s here for a few quid like Zlatan was. That’s fine as a stop gap with a medium / long term plan in place, but I don’t see it. Mata is a step backwards. He’s a nice guy and will shine in the League Cup, or maybe against the supposed lesser PL teams (we’re becoming one of them) but he’s not up to the bigger games anymore.
It’s not early days. Ole is into his second full season and 3rd as manager, there should be some signs of progress. I know someone will come along and mention the “Tara Fergie” flag, but that’s one of those historical anomalies not something we can assume happens to every manager. There is no way he’ll make it as far as Christmas if we’re still in this position, or at least he shouldn’t, but no doubt he’ll have some stupid contract around CL that means he has to stay until we’re mathematically incapable of getting it in 2021/22 at which point Poch will be somewhere else and we’ll sign up Neil Warnock as our long term strategy.
unident said:
200Plus Club said:
I'd suggest some evidence with buying Bruno, Telles, VDB and the very promising youngsters we also picked up. I'd agree however that although fast on the break and very exciting at times (when allowed to be) that we don't have a defined style to break down other teams or that marks out clear progression.
Fully agree we shouldn't have been buying Cavani even if he turns out like zlatan, I think that was a result of the pressure for another striker and the fact we don't have over €100m euro like many others to throw at Sancho
Mata is a great player on the wane due to age, my take is he should be a sub like pogba while we try and find a working midfield and solid base.
Anyway it's still early days, if we are in the bottom 3rd come the new year then of course the pressure mounts on Ole. Personally I like him and what he represents, and I'm prepared to give him time yet.
Telles? Where’s he going to play? Left back? Brilliant, so that’s a promising kid in Williams, who’s actually looks up to the job forced out. Meanwhile a lumbering brick like Maguire continues to play because we paid a load of money of him, much like Pogba. Fully agree we shouldn't have been buying Cavani even if he turns out like zlatan, I think that was a result of the pressure for another striker and the fact we don't have over €100m euro like many others to throw at Sancho
Mata is a great player on the wane due to age, my take is he should be a sub like pogba while we try and find a working midfield and solid base.
Anyway it's still early days, if we are in the bottom 3rd come the new year then of course the pressure mounts on Ole. Personally I like him and what he represents, and I'm prepared to give him time yet.
Ole won’t play VDB. What’s the point signing someone who actually can be useful and then not play them? I’m not convinced by the stuff about physicality, stuff that, he’s good enough and we’ve got four midfield slots available. You’re telling me he’s only good enough for 5th spot on the bench?
Cavani is past it, he’s here for a few quid like Zlatan was. That’s fine as a stop gap with a medium / long term plan in place, but I don’t see it. Mata is a step backwards. He’s a nice guy and will shine in the League Cup, or maybe against the supposed lesser PL teams (we’re becoming one of them) but he’s not up to the bigger games anymore.
It’s not early days. Ole is into his second full season and 3rd as manager, there should be some signs of progress. I know someone will come along and mention the “Tara Fergie” flag, but that’s one of those historical anomalies not something we can assume happens to every manager. There is no way he’ll make it as far as Christmas if we’re still in this position, or at least he shouldn’t, but no doubt he’ll have some stupid contract around CL that means he has to stay until we’re mathematically incapable of getting it in 2021/22 at which point Poch will be somewhere else and we’ll sign up Neil Warnock as our long term strategy.
Top gear was about as crap as us today to top it off :-)
200Plus Club said:
Have to disagree with a lot of the above but points made.
Top gear was about as crap as us today to top it off :-)
If you disagree then fine, but that goes back to what I said about not engaging. Top gear was about as crap as us today to top it off :-)
Look at this season
Palace H - lost
Brighton A - won, took a penalty after the final whistle though
Spurs H - walloped
Newcastle A - won, but a draw until 4 minutes from time
PSG A - won, but a draw until 3 mins from time
Chelsea H - mindnumbingly s
t 0-0Leipzig H - mega result, but again not until the last 15 mins when we had a purple patch
Arsenal H - lost, more mind numbing s
t. There is one match in there which stands out as an anomaly. Take that out and it’s loss / draw / last gasp win dross with no real style. We are poor, very poor. Expect more defeats and draws with the odd win in there and by the end of this month we’ll be rooted in mid-table miles away from the teams who are grinding out results and starting to find form. The sign of a good team is grinding out a win when not playing well, we can’t even grind out a draw.
unident said:
200Plus Club said:
Have to disagree with a lot of the above but points made.
Top gear was about as crap as us today to top it off :-)
If you disagree then fine, but that goes back to what I said about not engaging. Top gear was about as crap as us today to top it off :-)
Look at this season
Palace H - lost
Brighton A - won, took a penalty after the final whistle though
Spurs H - walloped
Newcastle A - won, but a draw until 4 minutes from time
PSG A - won, but a draw until 3 mins from time
Chelsea H - mindnumbingly s
t 0-0Leipzig H - mega result, but again not until the last 15 mins when we had a purple patch
Arsenal H - lost, more mind numbing s
t. There is one match in there which stands out as an anomaly. Take that out and it’s loss / draw / last gasp win dross with no real style. We are poor, very poor. Expect more defeats and draws with the odd win in there and by the end of this month we’ll be rooted in mid-table miles away from the teams who are grinding out results and starting to find form. The sign of a good team is grinding out a win when not playing well, we can’t even grind out a draw.
if United are still in the bottom third come the New Year, the pressure should be more than mounting on Ole, he should be out the door quick as you like. He's had money to spend, he's been manager at United for 100 games now and the team is barely further forward than when he took over.
I genuinely get why people are giving him the time, he's a club legend. Don't laugh but at my club Yeovil, we had a manager who was a massive part of the team that got promoted to the Football League. Absolutely superb for us in centre mid, he would never have had to buy a drink in the town ever again. But as a manager, he absolutely stunk the place out. Bizarre buys, terrible tactics, awful press conferences where he used to show himself up with his lack of nous. The club narrowly missed relegation twice, we got knocked out the FA Cup by Stockport County & he was given a new 2.5 year deal. He ended up being sacked when we were pretty much doomed to drop back into non league. He was given time because he had credit in the bank with the board because of his history. Cost us our league place.
Ole needs to either shape up or ship out. Bottom third of the Prem is not where you should be with the budget, the players and the options you have,
Edited by GloverMart on Sunday 1st November 21:39
200Plus Club said:
4 "lucky " wins it is then. I'll take that given how crap we are playing. Long season ahead, I think we'll sort something out and improve, you disagree, Everton game is the one I'm worried about as we do need to get something there.
Forget the CL for a bit and focus on the PL. we have won 2 drawn 1 lost 3. 1 point from 12 at home. The 2 wins were close to both being draws. We will lose against Everton. GloverMart said:
You're forgetting that 200 is chairman of the OGS fan club and thinks Ole rarely does anything wrong!
if United are still in the bottom third come the New Year, the pressure should be more than mounting on Ole, he should be out the door quick as you like. He's had money to spend, he's been manager at United for 100 games now and the team is barely further forward than when he took over.
I genuinely get why people are giving him the time, he's a club legend. Don't laugh but at my club Yeovil, we had a manager who was a massive part of the team that got promoted to the Football League. Absolutely superb for us in centre mid, he would never have had to buy a drink in the town ever again. But as a manager, he absolutely stunk the place out. Bizarre buys, terrible tactics, awful press conferences where he used to show himself up with his lack of nous. The club narrowly missed relegation twice, we got knocked out the FA Cup by Stockport County & he was given a new 2.5 year deal. He ended up being sacked when we were pretty much doomed to drop back into non league. He was given time because he had credit in the bank with the board because of his history. Cost us our league place.
Ole needs to either shape up or ship out. Bottom third of the Prem is not where you should be with the budget, the players and the options you have,
This sums it up perfectly. I love what Ole did for us as a player. He will always be cemented in my mind sliding on his knees in the Nou Camp in the 92nd minute. That doesn’t mean he can continue as manager though. It’s a very rare quality player that makes a quality manager. Very rare and he’s just another on that long line of playing heroes who aren’t up to it as managers. if United are still in the bottom third come the New Year, the pressure should be more than mounting on Ole, he should be out the door quick as you like. He's had money to spend, he's been manager at United for 100 games now and the team is barely further forward than when he took over.
I genuinely get why people are giving him the time, he's a club legend. Don't laugh but at my club Yeovil, we had a manager who was a massive part of the team that got promoted to the Football League. Absolutely superb for us in centre mid, he would never have had to buy a drink in the town ever again. But as a manager, he absolutely stunk the place out. Bizarre buys, terrible tactics, awful press conferences where he used to show himself up with his lack of nous. The club narrowly missed relegation twice, we got knocked out the FA Cup by Stockport County & he was given a new 2.5 year deal. He ended up being sacked when we were pretty much doomed to drop back into non league. He was given time because he had credit in the bank with the board because of his history. Cost us our league place.
Ole needs to either shape up or ship out. Bottom third of the Prem is not where you should be with the budget, the players and the options you have,
Edited by GloverMart on Sunday 1st November 21:39
elanfan said:
7 Premier League games until Xmas think that OGS has that many games and he’ll be gone! As per my previous prediction.
Those games include City, Leicester, Southampton away. Everton away. How many points will you drop in those 7 games?
5 points. That’s what I think we’ll muster out of those games. Those games include City, Leicester, Southampton away. Everton away. How many points will you drop in those 7 games?
unident said:
This sums it up perfectly. I love what Ole did for us as a player. He will always be cemented in my mind sliding on his knees in the Nou Camp in the 92nd minute. That doesn’t mean he can continue as manager though. It’s a very rare quality player that makes a quality manager. Very rare and he’s just another on that long line of playing heroes who aren’t up to it as managers.
Totally agree, Ole was a fantastic player but he has not achieved much as a manager. The current state of United with a disinterested set of owners and reduced earnings due to Coronavirus are pretty toxic, nothing suggests that he has the knowledge to turn it around sadly.GloverMart said:
You're forgetting that 200 is chairman of the OGS fan club and thinks Ole rarely does anything wrong!
if United are still in the bottom third come the New Year, the pressure should be more than mounting on Ole, he should be out the door quick as you like. He's had money to spend, he's been manager at United for 100 games now and the team is barely further forward than when he took over.
I genuinely get why people are giving him the time, he's a club legend. Don't laugh but at my club Yeovil, we had a manager who was a massive part of the team that got promoted to the Football League. Absolutely superb for us in centre mid, he would never have had to buy a drink in the town ever again. But as a manager, he absolutely stunk the place out. Bizarre buys, terrible tactics, awful press conferences where he used to show himself up with his lack of nous. The club narrowly missed relegation twice, we got knocked out the FA Cup by Stockport County & he was given a new 2.5 year deal. He ended up being sacked when we were pretty much doomed to drop back into non league. He was given time because he had credit in the bank with the board because of his history. Cost us our league place.
Ole needs to either shape up or ship out. Bottom third of the Prem is not where you should be with the budget, the players and the options you have,
Bit petty and silly, if you are going to contribute do so correctly please and quote when I said he can't do any wrong?if United are still in the bottom third come the New Year, the pressure should be more than mounting on Ole, he should be out the door quick as you like. He's had money to spend, he's been manager at United for 100 games now and the team is barely further forward than when he took over.
I genuinely get why people are giving him the time, he's a club legend. Don't laugh but at my club Yeovil, we had a manager who was a massive part of the team that got promoted to the Football League. Absolutely superb for us in centre mid, he would never have had to buy a drink in the town ever again. But as a manager, he absolutely stunk the place out. Bizarre buys, terrible tactics, awful press conferences where he used to show himself up with his lack of nous. The club narrowly missed relegation twice, we got knocked out the FA Cup by Stockport County & he was given a new 2.5 year deal. He ended up being sacked when we were pretty much doomed to drop back into non league. He was given time because he had credit in the bank with the board because of his history. Cost us our league place.
Ole needs to either shape up or ship out. Bottom third of the Prem is not where you should be with the budget, the players and the options you have,
Edited by GloverMart on Sunday 1st November 21:39
Actually I'm quite willing to say he's made mistakes sticking with pogba etc.
He's also stuck by DDG and Maguire and stood up to be counted by admitting the plan didn't work or they played awfully, which shows imho some strength too, a lot of the fans were wanting them both gone.
What I don't subscribe to is the constant chopping and changing panic reaction to managers and players. He's brought in some better prospects in the transfer windows than Moyes or the "genius" of Jose. And at least he has the love of Utd the club in him, rather than love of himself, like Jose.
Ultimately he may not be the man for the job, but if Liverpool hadnt had faith and given klopp 3 seasons they might still be in the wilderness.
If by the new year it hasn't drastically improved then football being the fickle thing it is may see him out on his ear, but Pep/Klopp and poch wouldn't have done much with the squad OGS took over either.
elanfan said:
7 Premier League games until Xmas think that OGS has that many games and he’ll be gone! As per my previous prediction.
Those games include City, Leicester, Southampton away. Everton away. How many points will you drop in those 7 games?
It's hard to say since this Utd team often doesn't seem to have a problem motivating itself against some of the bigger teams.Those games include City, Leicester, Southampton away. Everton away. How many points will you drop in those 7 games?
jammy-git said:
elanfan said:
7 Premier League games until Xmas think that OGS has that many games and he’ll be gone! As per my previous prediction.
Those games include City, Leicester, Southampton away. Everton away. How many points will you drop in those 7 games?
It's hard to say since this Utd team often doesn't seem to have a problem motivating itself against some of the bigger teams.Those games include City, Leicester, Southampton away. Everton away. How many points will you drop in those 7 games?
200Plus Club said:
Bit petty and silly, if you are going to contribute do so correctly please and quote when I said he can't do any wrong?
Actually I'm quite willing to say he's made mistakes sticking with pogba etc.
He's also stuck by DDG and Maguire and stood up to be counted by admitting the plan didn't work or they played awfully, which shows imho some strength too, a lot of the fans were wanting them both gone.
What I don't subscribe to is the constant chopping and changing panic reaction to managers and players. He's brought in some better prospects in the transfer windows than Moyes or the "genius" of Jose. And at least he has the love of Utd the club in him, rather than love of himself, like Jose.
Ultimately he may not be the man for the job, but if Liverpool hadnt had faith and given klopp 3 seasons they might still be in the wilderness.
If by the new year it hasn't drastically improved then football being the fickle thing it is may see him out on his ear, but Pep/Klopp and poch wouldn't have done much with the squad OGS took over either.
Moyes spent next to nothing compared to Ole and Jose won trophies and please don’t say OGS name in the same sentence as Pep and Klopp!Actually I'm quite willing to say he's made mistakes sticking with pogba etc.
He's also stuck by DDG and Maguire and stood up to be counted by admitting the plan didn't work or they played awfully, which shows imho some strength too, a lot of the fans were wanting them both gone.
What I don't subscribe to is the constant chopping and changing panic reaction to managers and players. He's brought in some better prospects in the transfer windows than Moyes or the "genius" of Jose. And at least he has the love of Utd the club in him, rather than love of himself, like Jose.
Ultimately he may not be the man for the job, but if Liverpool hadnt had faith and given klopp 3 seasons they might still be in the wilderness.
If by the new year it hasn't drastically improved then football being the fickle thing it is may see him out on his ear, but Pep/Klopp and poch wouldn't have done much with the squad OGS took over either.
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