Discussion
Having been through the horror of the Russel & Lewis season at Exeter City which very nearly finished my team, I feel so sorry for Bury fans today. Hopefully they will rise again like Aldershot and Halifax.
The Football League need to take a good long look at themselves at how they allowed someone like Dale to take ownership of the club. Its disgraceful that he was allowed to take control of Bury but it has been done before and it will happen again unless the rules are tightened up.
Basically the Football League needs to grow some balls.
The Football League need to take a good long look at themselves at how they allowed someone like Dale to take ownership of the club. Its disgraceful that he was allowed to take control of Bury but it has been done before and it will happen again unless the rules are tightened up.
Basically the Football League needs to grow some balls.
When you take the cash surplus of the Premier League vs the cash deficit of the EFL, it's not hard to see there needs to be a greater share distributed downwards. And teams need to be realistic with crowds, and spending. Bury were never going to survive with gates of 3.5k.
Take Exeter, a fans owned club, make money by having an excellent academy and sell players for big bucks. Without that, they would be another Bury. They are well run, but they know they are probably limited to L1 at best. The money has to come from somewhere.
Take Exeter, a fans owned club, make money by having an excellent academy and sell players for big bucks. Without that, they would be another Bury. They are well run, but they know they are probably limited to L1 at best. The money has to come from somewhere.
Hub said:
Bury haven't played any matches this season so it was easy to resolve. What happens to the league if Bolton go having played several matches though? Are those results just deleted?
Correct, results against Bolton would be removed, although any yellow/red cards would still be counted/ on a players record.Tyre Smoke said:
When you take the cash surplus of the Premier League vs the cash deficit of the EFL, it's not hard to see there needs to be a greater share distributed downwards. And teams need to be realistic with crowds, and spending. Bury were never going to survive with gates of 3.5k.
Take Exeter, a fans owned club, make money by having an excellent academy and sell players for big bucks. Without that, they would be another Bury. They are well run, but they know they are probably limited to L1 at best. The money has to come from somewhere.
Some of the financial and business aspects detailed on the thread linked above are stark. I had read they were losing £50k month and this had been ongoing for years. Agree the lower leagues need support from above. The TV money at the top needs to be spread downwards as the bigger clubs need to acknowledge that the game needs the smaller ones. The PFA should be addressing the fact lower league players aren't getting paid whilst Alexis Sanchez, who ironically doesn't play, is making £500k a week. The league needs to be more proactive and intrusive when it comes to looking at how clubs are run and put some measures in place before this becomes the norm. If the linked thread is accurate, which it may not be, the people who have "run" the club have been playing a long game for a property development plan.Take Exeter, a fans owned club, make money by having an excellent academy and sell players for big bucks. Without that, they would be another Bury. They are well run, but they know they are probably limited to L1 at best. The money has to come from somewhere.
jcremonini said:
Dale is getting a bit of an unfair rap in regards to Bury. The club’s toxicity started well before he took over and the only thing he should be questioned on is his lack of due diligence when he agreed to take it on for a £1.
He bought it for a quid and wanted £2m. Has openly admitted he has no interest in sports and was unaware Bury even had a football club.What was in it for him? Other than maybe letting it hit the wall and selling the ground off for redevelopment?
How he ever passed a fit and proper person's test is beyond me.
jcremonini said:
Dale is getting a bit of an unfair rap in regards to Bury. The club’s toxicity started well before he took over and the only thing he should be questioned on is his lack of due diligence when he agreed to take it on for a £1.
Have you read the thread linked above? Is it inaccurate?monarodom said:
jcremonini said:
Dale is getting a bit of an unfair rap in regards to Bury. The club’s toxicity started well before he took over and the only thing he should be questioned on is his lack of due diligence when he agreed to take it on for a £1.
He bought it for a quid and wanted £2m. Has openly admitted he has no interest in sports and was unaware Bury even had a football club.What was in it for him? Other than maybe letting it hit the wall and selling the ground off for redevelopment?
How he ever passed a fit and proper person's test is beyond me.
Again - the owners before him are the real issue. I am not suggesting Dale is innocent of everything and agree he should never have been allowed to own it, but that does not detract from the root of the issue which was not him.
Read this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug...
Given the league is run on rules agreed by all the clubs in that league (72?) and the EFL then implements those rules - ultimately its not them but the clubs themselves to blame for the rules the league runs by.
They really need to take a long look at themselves and bring in 21st century rules and regs around ownership and the running of clubs to stop this kind of thing happening to others.
A lot of people will be watching to see if Dale sells off what he owns now for development, no doubt.
They really need to take a long look at themselves and bring in 21st century rules and regs around ownership and the running of clubs to stop this kind of thing happening to others.
A lot of people will be watching to see if Dale sells off what he owns now for development, no doubt.
Not sure if anyone follows Andy Holt, the Accrington Stanley chairman on Twitter but he usually offers some good insight on football topic of the day.
His take on Bury and why it was doomed ages ago..
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/1166612123503...
His take on Bury and why it was doomed ages ago..
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/1166612123503...
Supply and demand.
All very sad for the club and its few fans who bothered to turn up, but there was no demand for the product it was offering so tough titties.
Should football exist as a charity case where the rich help the poor? if you think yes, why? to indulge a few diehard minority fans? why is that fair to those clubs who live within their means and cut their cloth at a suitable level for their economic situation, for those that cant to be bailed out?
The premier league and money have eaten themselves, its gross, but that said the money should not be filtered down to clubs who have done naff all to deserve it to keep them running for the benefit of a couple of thousand fans. its crazy. where do you stop?
in this day and age where people don't support their local club (at least in a sense of putting money into it by attending buying merchandise etc) there are simply too many professional teams. if they cannot support themselves or find a sugar daddy to finance them, then they go to the all like any other business/small interest hobby group.
harsh but fair
edit for dyslexia
All very sad for the club and its few fans who bothered to turn up, but there was no demand for the product it was offering so tough titties.
Should football exist as a charity case where the rich help the poor? if you think yes, why? to indulge a few diehard minority fans? why is that fair to those clubs who live within their means and cut their cloth at a suitable level for their economic situation, for those that cant to be bailed out?
The premier league and money have eaten themselves, its gross, but that said the money should not be filtered down to clubs who have done naff all to deserve it to keep them running for the benefit of a couple of thousand fans. its crazy. where do you stop?
in this day and age where people don't support their local club (at least in a sense of putting money into it by attending buying merchandise etc) there are simply too many professional teams. if they cannot support themselves or find a sugar daddy to finance them, then they go to the all like any other business/small interest hobby group.
harsh but fair
edit for dyslexia
theplayingmantis said:
Supply and demand.
All very sad for the club and its few fans who bothered to turn up, but there was no demand for the product it was offering so tough titties.
Should football exist as a charity case where the rich help the poor? if you think yes, why? to indulge a few diehard minority fans? why is that fair to those clubs who live within their means and cut their cloth at a suitable level for their economic situation, for those that cant to be bailed out?
The premier league and money have eaten themselves, its gross, but that said the money should not be filtered down to clubs who have done naff all to deserve it to keep them running for the benefit of a couple of thousand fans. its crazy. where do you stop?
in this day and age where people don't support their local club (at least in a sense of putting money into it by attending buying merchandise etc) there are simply too many professional teams. if they cannot support themselves or find a sugar daddy to finance them, then they go to the all like any other business/small interest hobby group.
harsh but fair
edit for dyslexia
Quite an element of living beyond their means - and rules and regs allowing them to do so. So no-one should shed tears for the people who owned the club, only contempt. The people who suffer are the players and other employees now losing their jobs, and their fan base.All very sad for the club and its few fans who bothered to turn up, but there was no demand for the product it was offering so tough titties.
Should football exist as a charity case where the rich help the poor? if you think yes, why? to indulge a few diehard minority fans? why is that fair to those clubs who live within their means and cut their cloth at a suitable level for their economic situation, for those that cant to be bailed out?
The premier league and money have eaten themselves, its gross, but that said the money should not be filtered down to clubs who have done naff all to deserve it to keep them running for the benefit of a couple of thousand fans. its crazy. where do you stop?
in this day and age where people don't support their local club (at least in a sense of putting money into it by attending buying merchandise etc) there are simply too many professional teams. if they cannot support themselves or find a sugar daddy to finance them, then they go to the all like any other business/small interest hobby group.
harsh but fair
edit for dyslexia
Edited by Flip Martian on Wednesday 28th August 17:02
It's not just the club and its fans though. The local pub used match day revenues to see it through the summer, so yet another pub gone. The regular coach firms laying on 5 or 6 coaches every other week.
Local bed and breakfast places, school and community outreach activities, holiday clubs for youngsters. There's a lot of people and organisations that depend on the club.
SD.
Local bed and breakfast places, school and community outreach activities, holiday clubs for youngsters. There's a lot of people and organisations that depend on the club.
SD.
theplayingmantis said:
Supply and demand.
All very sad for the club and its few fans who bothered to turn up, but there was no demand for the product it was offering so tough titties.
Should football exist as a charity case where the rich help the poor? if you think yes, why? to indulge a few diehard minority fans? why is that fair to those clubs who live within their means and cut their cloth at a suitable level for their economic situation, for those that cant to be bailed out?
The premier league and money have eaten themselves, its gross, but that said the money should not be filtered down to clubs who have done naff all to deserve it to keep them running for the benefit of a couple of thousand fans. its crazy. where do you stop?
in this day and age where people don't support their local club (at least in a sense of putting money into it by attending buying merchandise etc) there are simply too many professional teams. if they cannot support themselves or find a sugar daddy to finance them, then they go to the all like any other business/small interest hobby group.
harsh but fair
edit for dyslexia
100% Correct.All very sad for the club and its few fans who bothered to turn up, but there was no demand for the product it was offering so tough titties.
Should football exist as a charity case where the rich help the poor? if you think yes, why? to indulge a few diehard minority fans? why is that fair to those clubs who live within their means and cut their cloth at a suitable level for their economic situation, for those that cant to be bailed out?
The premier league and money have eaten themselves, its gross, but that said the money should not be filtered down to clubs who have done naff all to deserve it to keep them running for the benefit of a couple of thousand fans. its crazy. where do you stop?
in this day and age where people don't support their local club (at least in a sense of putting money into it by attending buying merchandise etc) there are simply too many professional teams. if they cannot support themselves or find a sugar daddy to finance them, then they go to the all like any other business/small interest hobby group.
harsh but fair
edit for dyslexia
Fans seem to forget that a football club is a business. As such, it exists to make money, and that it is there for the good of itself, not the good of it's fans and supports.
And like any business that spends more than it receives, it will eventually go bust.
shed driver said:
It's not just the club and its fans though. The local pub used match day revenues to see it through the summer, so yet another pub gone. The regular coach firms laying on 5 or 6 coaches every other week.
Local bed and breakfast places, school and community outreach activities, holiday clubs for youngsters. There's a lot of people and organisations that depend on the club.
SD.
Indeed, going to Gigg Lane was part of my childhood and as I grew up going to the pubs between the Interchange and the ground along with exotic away days to Rotherham, Port Vale and Wolves. Hardly any football clubs break even, let alone make money, most depend on a benevolent owner subsidising it all. Local bed and breakfast places, school and community outreach activities, holiday clubs for youngsters. There's a lot of people and organisations that depend on the club.
SD.
Dale wanted to make some cash out of the club, he is not the naive innocent he portrays himself as, he screwed over the players and staff by not paying them for months and then wanted to make a load of cash out of the sale.
shed driver said:
It's not just the club and its fans though. The local pub used match day revenues to see it through the summer, so yet another pub gone. The regular coach firms laying on 5 or 6 coaches every other week.
Local bed and breakfast places, school and community outreach activities, holiday clubs for youngsters. There's a lot of people and organisations that depend on the club.
SD.
sad for them too, but should a failing enterprise that cannot afford itself be maintained for ever more because of such things?Local bed and breakfast places, school and community outreach activities, holiday clubs for youngsters. There's a lot of people and organisations that depend on the club.
SD.
football clubs all started as amateurs (i guess) and ultimately developed from humble origins as they grew organically (mostly although some exceptions with sugar daddies - Blackburn, Chelsea, Man city, Salford City etc). although they all started off lowly. thus they die organically too. yes its sad but so was woolworths closing down.
Just because they came to be doesn't mean they should be protected and last in perpetuity if they cant make a going concern of it. they lived beyond there means. An amateur club will reform as AFC Bury or something and crack on up the leagues become semi pro etc until they find their level.
greygoose said:
shed driver said:
It's not just the club and its fans though. The local pub used match day revenues to see it through the summer, so yet another pub gone. The regular coach firms laying on 5 or 6 coaches every other week.
Local bed and breakfast places, school and community outreach activities, holiday clubs for youngsters. There's a lot of people and organisations that depend on the club.
SD.
Indeed, going to Gigg Lane was part of my childhood and as I grew up going to the pubs between the Interchange and the ground along with exotic away days to Rotherham, Port Vale and Wolves. Hardly any football clubs break even, let alone make money, most depend on a benevolent owner subsidising it all. Local bed and breakfast places, school and community outreach activities, holiday clubs for youngsters. There's a lot of people and organisations that depend on the club.
SD.
Dale wanted to make some cash out of the club, he is not the naive innocent he portrays himself as, he screwed over the players and staff by not paying them for months and then wanted to make a load of cash out of the sale.
tfest he inherited. As far as him ‘making a load of cash out of the sale’ perhaps you could furnish the thread with evidence of this ? Or is that local rumour ? From what I can see there is no way he could ever have done that due to the debt burden the club had anyway ( which he naively took on for £1).
jcremonini said:
Dale is getting a bit of an unfair rap in regards to Bury. The club’s toxicity started well before he took over and the only thing he should be questioned on is his lack of due diligence when he agreed to take it on for a £1.
Err, he's been associated with 51 businesses, of which 43 have been liquidated. A tad fishy, no? Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff