The Official Everton thread - Vol 2
Discussion
ACCYSTAN said:
Leeds overspent and borrowed to overspend.
It’s simple, live within your means and be shrewd with your signings and wages.
It’s simple, live within your means and be shrewd with your signings and wages.
ACCYSTAN said:
Not necessarily true, there are always home grown players who stick with their clubs.
The problem is owners who aren’t ambitious or who are happy to just get top 6; such as a Bill Kenwright when he was the majority owner of Everton.
Further down the ambition league table, you have had plenty of premier league club owners simply happy to survive such as Bolton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Wigan, Blackburn, Newcastle, Middlesbrough, etc
If you don’t keep progressing your club and your happy to just make up the numbers, eventually you go backwards and your better players will catch on to the lack of ambition and move on.
Both these posts surely contradict themselves? How can you be constantly shrewd with your signings (It's impossible for every signing to work out), whilst also keeping your wages lower, but also be ambitious?The problem is owners who aren’t ambitious or who are happy to just get top 6; such as a Bill Kenwright when he was the majority owner of Everton.
Further down the ambition league table, you have had plenty of premier league club owners simply happy to survive such as Bolton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Wigan, Blackburn, Newcastle, Middlesbrough, etc
If you don’t keep progressing your club and your happy to just make up the numbers, eventually you go backwards and your better players will catch on to the lack of ambition and move on.
As soon as owners get ambitious, you start to spend a decent amount and then one or two bad signings combined with an long term injury spell disaster.
No club has managed to regularly break the top 4/6 without spending hundreds of millions (except for ourselves recently) because it's practically impossible, and this won't last forever, eventually we'll be back down in midtable, because we just can't afford to constantly sign class players whilst paying high wages due to FFP.
Some of the clubs you mentioned spent absolute fortunes btw, Bournemouth spent 110m in 13 months if I remember correctly, and they still went down the season after. Fulham spent over 100m last time they were in the EPL, they went straight down. Everton have spent over half a billion in transfer fees in the past 5 years too, but they haven't finished in the top 4 once.
Fast Bug said:
I think we missed our chance when we finished 4th, that summer we should've invested fairly well. Instead we had a net spend of under £1m
Just checked, that was 04/05, doesn't feel that long ago!You're the team that's come the closest to cracking into the big 6, been almost 7 years now though since you last finished in there. Potentially Villa too? They had a few good finishes as well.
Leicester Loyal said:
Both these posts surely contradict themselves? How can you be constantly shrewd with your signings (It's impossible for every signing to work out), whilst also keeping your wages lower, but also be ambitious?
As soon as owners get ambitious, you start to spend a decent amount and then one or two bad signings combined with an long term injury spell disaster.
No club has managed to regularly break the top 4/6 without spending hundreds of millions (except for ourselves recently) because it's practically impossible, and this won't last forever, eventually we'll be back down in midtable, because we just can't afford to constantly sign class players whilst paying high wages due to FFP.
Some of the clubs you mentioned spent absolute fortunes btw, Bournemouth spent 110m in 13 months if I remember correctly, and they still went down the season after. Fulham spent over 100m last time they were in the EPL, they went straight down. Everton have spent over half a billion in transfer fees in the past 5 years too, but they haven't finished in the top 4 once.
I think you can live within your means and be ambitious As soon as owners get ambitious, you start to spend a decent amount and then one or two bad signings combined with an long term injury spell disaster.
No club has managed to regularly break the top 4/6 without spending hundreds of millions (except for ourselves recently) because it's practically impossible, and this won't last forever, eventually we'll be back down in midtable, because we just can't afford to constantly sign class players whilst paying high wages due to FFP.
Some of the clubs you mentioned spent absolute fortunes btw, Bournemouth spent 110m in 13 months if I remember correctly, and they still went down the season after. Fulham spent over 100m last time they were in the EPL, they went straight down. Everton have spent over half a billion in transfer fees in the past 5 years too, but they haven't finished in the top 4 once.
It’s all about the culture the board sets in terms of always trying to progress (not a lot of teams have this).
It’s about being shrewed with your signings, buying players at the right age / time who you can move on, if buying them at the right age/time their wages are not prohibitive to moving them on.
Some of Everton’s signings have been the best example of not following this pattern.
For example
Theo Walcott.
Wrong age - close to 30
Wrong wages - £100k a week, not many takers at this level
Wrong fee - would never increase in value
Wrong time - in the 2nd half of his career, had become a squad player for a top 6 club, lacked any consistency throughout career
If your buying players not good enough to start for the teams above you, on big wages, a decent fee and closer to 30 than 20 then how do you ever expect to surpass them clubs?
On a side note, in the case of Fulham they are bank rolled by a billionaire and generally purchased a lot of rubbish the last time they came into the prem.
They had the ambition, they didn’t have an eye for a player,
Bournemouth in fairness only spent there premier league revenue and sponsor money, a lot of it on player rejects from teams above them like Everton have done in the past.
When your buying Liverpool reserves such as Ibe, Solanke, Smith your going to suffer.
Liverpool are letting them go because they are confident they are not good enough.
Same with Sheff United buying Liverpool reserve striker Brewster this season, insanity.
Alarm bells should have been ringing why he couldn’t make the Liverpool bench over Origi.
The story goes Chris Wilder and co soon realised within the first few training sessions they had made a mistake.
A bit like when Martinez signed Niasse in Jan and tried to avoid playing him. I think it was Baines who commented that within the first week of training the players where asking why had they signed him.
Edited by ACCYSTAN on Monday 26th April 05:17
Talking of Niasse, got to feel sorry for him
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/hud...
Huddersfield Town striker Oumar Niasse will not play for them this season – or perhaps ever.
The 30-year-old former Everton and Hull City striker joined as a free agent on March 26 but injured his groin in the build-up towards a first training game to try to prove his fitness.
He went for a scan on Tuesday, and the results suggest he will not play again this season. His short-term contract expires at the end of the campaign.
“The scan was on Tuesday and the result was not positive,” said coach Carlos Corberan. “He will be around eight weeks to recover so we don't expect to have him from now until the end of the season.
“In the preparation he was doing for the training game we were using to make him ready for the team he suffered an injury and we need to just keep going with the options right now, and to help him to have a good, fast recovery because he's part of our squad even if he cannot play the games.”
Asked about Niasse's future with the club, Corberan said: “What happens after this season I'm not focused on because I'm just focused on making the team perform well tomorrow.”
There was some positive news, though, with 25 players due to train on Friday, giving the likes of Ryan Schofield, Pipa and Alex Vallejo a chance to prove their fitness for Saturday's vital game at home to Rotherham United.
Schofield missed Tuesday's 7-0 defeat at Norwich City through illness.
“We are going to check how he is in training and if everything goes well, he will be the keeper on Saturday,” said Corberan of Schofield. The same applied to Pipa, Vallejo and Josh Koroma and Rolando Aarons, who have been out for longer periods.
Centre-forward Fraizer Campbell was on the bench at Carrow Road, but Corberan explained he should be available from the start against the Millers.
“After the Brentford game he felt a problem in his Achilles that he has been trying to manage,” he said. “Fortunately now we have other options because for so many games this season he was our only option as a striker, but now we have (Yaya) Sanogo and Danny Ward.
“Maybe because of that he's suffering with his Achilles and that's why the medical advice was to not involve in many minutes in the previous because he wasn't in 100 per cent condition for the game.”
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/hud...
Huddersfield Town striker Oumar Niasse will not play for them this season – or perhaps ever.
The 30-year-old former Everton and Hull City striker joined as a free agent on March 26 but injured his groin in the build-up towards a first training game to try to prove his fitness.
He went for a scan on Tuesday, and the results suggest he will not play again this season. His short-term contract expires at the end of the campaign.
“The scan was on Tuesday and the result was not positive,” said coach Carlos Corberan. “He will be around eight weeks to recover so we don't expect to have him from now until the end of the season.
“In the preparation he was doing for the training game we were using to make him ready for the team he suffered an injury and we need to just keep going with the options right now, and to help him to have a good, fast recovery because he's part of our squad even if he cannot play the games.”
Asked about Niasse's future with the club, Corberan said: “What happens after this season I'm not focused on because I'm just focused on making the team perform well tomorrow.”
There was some positive news, though, with 25 players due to train on Friday, giving the likes of Ryan Schofield, Pipa and Alex Vallejo a chance to prove their fitness for Saturday's vital game at home to Rotherham United.
Schofield missed Tuesday's 7-0 defeat at Norwich City through illness.
“We are going to check how he is in training and if everything goes well, he will be the keeper on Saturday,” said Corberan of Schofield. The same applied to Pipa, Vallejo and Josh Koroma and Rolando Aarons, who have been out for longer periods.
Centre-forward Fraizer Campbell was on the bench at Carrow Road, but Corberan explained he should be available from the start against the Millers.
“After the Brentford game he felt a problem in his Achilles that he has been trying to manage,” he said. “Fortunately now we have other options because for so many games this season he was our only option as a striker, but now we have (Yaya) Sanogo and Danny Ward.
“Maybe because of that he's suffering with his Achilles and that's why the medical advice was to not involve in many minutes in the previous because he wasn't in 100 per cent condition for the game.”
ACCYSTAN said:
I think you can live within your means and be ambitious
It’s all about the culture the board sets in terms of always trying to progress (not a lot of teams have this).
It’s about being shrewed with your signings, buying players at the right age / time who you can move on, if buying them at the right age/time their wages are not prohibitive to moving them on.
Some of Everton’s signings have been the best example of not following this pattern.
For example
Theo Walcott.
Wrong age - close to 30
Wrong wages - £100k a week, not many takers at this level
Wrong fee - would never increase in value
Wrong time - in the 2nd half of his career, had become a squad player for a top 6 club, lacked any consistency throughout career
If your buying players not good enough to start for the teams above you, on big wages, a decent fee and closer to 30 than 20 then how do you ever expect to surpass them clubs?
On a side note, in the case of Fulham they are bank rolled by a billionaire and generally purchased a lot of rubbish the last time they came into the prem.
They had the ambition, they didn’t have an eye for a player,
Bournemouth in fairness only spent there premier league revenue and sponsor money, a lot of it on player rejects from teams above them like Everton have done in the past.
When your buying Liverpool reserves such as Ibe, Solanke, Smith your going to suffer.
Liverpool are letting them go because they are confident they are not good enough.
Same with Sheff United buying Liverpool reserve striker Brewster this season, insanity.
Alarm bells should have been ringing why he couldn’t make the Liverpool bench over Origi.
The story goes Chris Wilder and co soon realised within the first few training sessions they had made a mistake.
A bit like when Martinez signed Niasse in Jan and tried to avoid playing him. I think it was Baines who commented that within the first week of training the players where asking why had they signed him.
I don't disagree with anything you've said, I just think it's practically impossible to achieve in the long term.It’s all about the culture the board sets in terms of always trying to progress (not a lot of teams have this).
It’s about being shrewed with your signings, buying players at the right age / time who you can move on, if buying them at the right age/time their wages are not prohibitive to moving them on.
Some of Everton’s signings have been the best example of not following this pattern.
For example
Theo Walcott.
Wrong age - close to 30
Wrong wages - £100k a week, not many takers at this level
Wrong fee - would never increase in value
Wrong time - in the 2nd half of his career, had become a squad player for a top 6 club, lacked any consistency throughout career
If your buying players not good enough to start for the teams above you, on big wages, a decent fee and closer to 30 than 20 then how do you ever expect to surpass them clubs?
On a side note, in the case of Fulham they are bank rolled by a billionaire and generally purchased a lot of rubbish the last time they came into the prem.
They had the ambition, they didn’t have an eye for a player,
Bournemouth in fairness only spent there premier league revenue and sponsor money, a lot of it on player rejects from teams above them like Everton have done in the past.
When your buying Liverpool reserves such as Ibe, Solanke, Smith your going to suffer.
Liverpool are letting them go because they are confident they are not good enough.
Same with Sheff United buying Liverpool reserve striker Brewster this season, insanity.
Alarm bells should have been ringing why he couldn’t make the Liverpool bench over Origi.
The story goes Chris Wilder and co soon realised within the first few training sessions they had made a mistake.
A bit like when Martinez signed Niasse in Jan and tried to avoid playing him. I think it was Baines who commented that within the first week of training the players where asking why had they signed him.
Edited by ACCYSTAN on Monday 26th April 05:17
tdm34 said:
Just noticed, all the remaining fixture lists I can find only list five more matches, when we’ve only played 32 games, what’s the sixth fixture?
Would be a game that's been previously cancelled, probably due to COVID? They haven't arranged them yet until they know what's happening with fans, as they want each team to have only 1 game with home fans I think.tdm34 said:
Just noticed, all the remaining fixture lists I can find only list five more matches, when we’ve only played 32 games, what’s the sixth fixture?
Pretty sure it’s Villa, don’t think we’ve played them at all this season due to covid. Nice to read a healthy debate on this thread about the state of the game and our club, I personally think we have suffered due to poor leadership but will always be grateful to Bill for stopping the rot after Johnson. We will never know the full story but I think the Mansour family were weighing up Everton before they plumped for City, the ‘story’ is that Bill didn’t want to let go. As for the state of football who knows, it’s clear that the game in its current form is not sustainable, but we have a tendency to look at it all from a domestic perspective, the fact is that the big clubs now operate with their global fan base more in mind.
I think expecting us to go crazy in the transfer market this summer maybe a little unrealistic. We have to fund this new stadium and like Spurs it has to be paid for by frugality in the the transfer market. I may be wrong, but unless the chairman wants to plow another £250m in the short term then it may be a lean spell for excting signings.
I would like James Ward Prowse. Not sure on his contract but maybe test them with £30m ish. His set play ability alone, is worth 10 goals a season.
I would like James Ward Prowse. Not sure on his contract but maybe test them with £30m ish. His set play ability alone, is worth 10 goals a season.
Anyone that thinks the ESL proposition wasn't a bluff to get more money from Sky and BT is deluded in my opinion.
As others have posted, several of the 6 are over leveraged, especially Spurs, thus need extra revenue. The threat of ESL was a ploy to extort more and steal more from the smaller clubs. Football has gone rotten.
I just hope our team doesn't ever play those games.
As others have posted, several of the 6 are over leveraged, especially Spurs, thus need extra revenue. The threat of ESL was a ploy to extort more and steal more from the smaller clubs. Football has gone rotten.
I just hope our team doesn't ever play those games.
ACCYSTAN said:
I find it hard to believe the Coutinho link is genuine
Wrong age
Injury prone
No pace in an existing slow midfield
Huge wages
No resale value
Position not required (sigurdsson & rodriguez play in same role)
2 paces wingers and a right back the priority
Agree with that. Although maybe 1 winger, a right back and back up for DCL. I don't think Richie can lead the line very well, he's much better cutting in and having someone to play offWrong age
Injury prone
No pace in an existing slow midfield
Huge wages
No resale value
Position not required (sigurdsson & rodriguez play in same role)
2 paces wingers and a right back the priority
ACCYSTAN said:
I find it hard to believe the Coutinho link is genuine
Wrong age
Injury prone
No pace in an existing slow midfield
Huge wages
No resale value
Position not required (sigurdsson & rodriguez play in same role)
2 paces wingers and a right back the priority
I concur, would be a dreadful signing and clearly isn't the player he was.Wrong age
Injury prone
No pace in an existing slow midfield
Huge wages
No resale value
Position not required (sigurdsson & rodriguez play in same role)
2 paces wingers and a right back the priority
alfa phil said:
You look at our starting 11 ,no way should we get beat by that villa side ,
Really? Only 4 points seperate you (after this result admittedly), you struggle at home anyway and you've got a couple of key men out (Doucoure & James). Was a poor result and performance but they aren't that far behind you, even with Grealish out of the side. Plus you had the disadvantage of Iwobi!Be nice if you could get something at WHU next weekend, thanks!
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