The Official Tottenham Hotspur thread [Vol 13]

[_dobbo_]

Couldn't agree more. We paid big money for defenders that don't start. Where is Rodon? Why wasn't Toby on the pitch?

When he came on Doherty was everywhere he needed to be and linked up brilliantly with Bale and looked great until it came to actually making a decent cross.

[Guvernator]

The situation with Toby is very weird. I know he's getting on a bit but he's still our best CB by a country mile. No idea why he is being sidelined, especially for Sanchez and Dier, some of the worst players in a Spurs shirt it's been my misfortune to watch.

[Fittster]

_dobbo_ said:

Couldn't agree more. We paid big money for defenders that don't start. Where is Rodon? Why wasn't Toby on the pitch?

When he came on Doherty was everywhere he needed to be and linked up brilliantly with Bale and looked great until it came to actually making a decent cross.

Name	Transfer Fee
Matt Doherty	15M
Sergio Reguilón	27.5
Toby Alderweireld	8M
Davinson Sánchez	40M
Joe Rodon	11m
Eric Dier	4m
Serge Aurier	23m
Japhet Tanganga	N/A
Ben Davies	11m
Juan Foyth	8m
Cameron Carter-Vickers	N/A

Are you classing Ryan Sessegnon a defender?

We have one expensive flop in Sánchez but more often that not we are taking cheap(ish) punts.

The problems as I see it are:

A. Squad management stopped completely for 2 years under Poch, when Levy was more focused on the new stadium.
B. We aren't great a scouting new players
C. Players that aren't going to make it aren't moved on

Personally I'd see this failure coming back to the club relying on Levy and this seasons flavour of the month manager rather than relying on a true DoF.

Edited by Fittster on Monday 22 February 00:36

[_dobbo_]

Fittster said:

Are you classing Ryan Sessegnon a defender?
]

I'm not. This is spurs remember.

Our most expensive player we've ever bought is Ndombele. Second is Sanchez. we've just done a bit on this thread about best spurs players ever. Will they bey in there?

When I say "big money" I mean relative to what we've spent in the past.

My point was we spent 15m + 11m on Rodon and Doherty. They can barely get a minute under Mourinho.

[Fittster]

_dobbo_ said:

Fittster said:

Are you classing Ryan Sessegnon a defender?
]

I'm not. This is spurs remember.

Our most expensive player we've ever bought is Ndombele. Second is Sanchez. we've just done a bit on this thread about best spurs players ever. Will they bey in there?

When I say "big money" I mean relative to what we've spent in the past.

My point was we spent 15m + 11m on Rodon and Doherty. They can barely get a minute under Mourinho.

I'd say those a cheap prices for premiership defenders. If Levy hasn't got to the point where he is willing to sack Mourinho, I do personally believe that he's no longer trusted to spend significant sums on transfers (although it could also be due to covid).

I'd rather what transfer budget there is was held back for the next manager.

To me the biggest problem is that the next manager will be appointed by Levy. I think he means well, it's just not something he's very good at.

[Guvernator]

That's half the problem though isn't it. For a club of our size, we don't spend big at all. £11 and £15m is peanuts in todays game. It's the kind of money relegation fodder spends and yet we apparently have aspirations of being a top 6 side. We take punts on cheap players, hoping they turn out OK which they rarely do.

What's worse is when they don't really work out, rather than moving them on ASAP, we hang onto them and make then an integral part of our squad. I'm willing to bet Doherty will still be stealing a living at Spurs, 5 years from now.

Big club ambitions with small club spend, the two are mutually exclusive.

[_dobbo_]

Fittster said:

I'd say those a cheap prices for premiership defenders.

I agree - but they don't play, so they don't look so cheap in that regard.

Anyway I think we probably agree with each other and aren't finding the right way to say it, probably my fault, I'm off to bed.

[Fittster]

Guvernator said:

What's worse is when they don't really work out, rather than moving them on ASAP, we hang onto them and make then an integral part of our squad. I'm willing to bet Doherty will still be stealing a living at Spurs, 5 years from now.

Big club ambitions with small club spend, the two are mutually exclusive.

I don't think taking punts is necessarily a bad thing, just we do it very badly.

Firstly I don't think we are particularly good at scouting (or maybe we are good at scouting, but not recruiting the players that are identified). It's easy enough to spot players who are playing at the very highest levels already but they command huge fees and wages and we don't have the budget to fill the squad with those levels of players. We need to be better at spotting the quality at the £15 to £25m brackets.

Some clubs are very good at talent spotting. Brentford bought Ollie Watkins £2m, kept him for 3 seasons, during which time he scored 45 goals and then sold him for £28m. Now you could argue they just got lucky but they replaced him by spending £5m on Ivan Toney, who is currently the leading goal scorer in the championship having scored 24 goals in 30 games. They get that kind of success not by relying on the judgement of scout but by putting their faith in a sophisticated analytic systems. Tottenham need to have this level of intelligences.

Secondly, not all punts are going to come off and when they don't you need to cut your losses and move on. The problem is Levy, who seems pathologically unwilling to take a loss. I'd argue that Janssen seemed like a good move when we initially signed him but when it became obvious it wasn't working out he needed to be moved on but that was difficult because of Levy's attitude.

[48k]

hebangsthedrums said:

ddom said:

How can you say Kane is not 'as good' as Bale mk1?

Not sure what mk1 means and I understand that you'll always struggle to measure players individually, but look at their medals. Bale scored a bicycle kick in a UCL final.

Do you think Kane is twice as good as Bale ever has been?

Luke Chadwick has a Premier League winners medal and Harry Kane does not therefore by your logic Luke Chadwick is a better player than Harry Kane.

[NRS]

Yes. Success is measured in trophies. I thought you lot would know that by now?

[48k]

[GTO-3R]

48k said:

Luke Chadwick has a Premier League winners medal and Harry Kane does not therefore by your logic Luke Chadwick is a better player than Harry Kane.

Not better, but more successful.

If Kane wants a Premier League medal and potentially a Champions League medal then he needs to leave Spurs. I'm not sure he will though unless Levy needs to sell him to pay off Jose

[NRS]

GTO-3R said:

48k said:

Luke Chadwick has a Premier League winners medal and Harry Kane does not therefore by your logic Luke Chadwick is a better player than Harry Kane.

Not better, but more successful.

If Kane wants a Premier League medal and potentially a Champions League medal then he needs to leave Spurs. I'm not sure he will though unless Levy needs to sell him to pay off Jose

I think the opposite is perhaps true. Kane seems loyal despite clearly having the ability to play for a team that is certain to get lots more trophies. So to me it's more if Jose is too negative and destroys the "fun" of playing/attacking then that's more likely to be the reason he'd leave if he will ever leave. He can earn more trophies and money elsewhere, so it has to be the fans/teammates/fun of playing which is keeping him at Tottenham.

[48k]

GTO-3R said:

48k said:

Luke Chadwick has a Premier League winners medal and Harry Kane does not therefore by your logic Luke Chadwick is a better player than Harry Kane.

Not better, but more successful.

Quite. Trying to justify "player X is better than player Y" by what medals they've won is nonsense.

[silverfoxcc]

Guvernator

John Lacey, Terry Fenwick, Laurie Brown, David Jenkins ,Trammazzani ( sp>?) other donkeys are available

[Simon-k41v9]

the only thing I can think with Toby is that Jose doesnt think he is fit enough to play game after game and with Europe and 2 prem games next week he was holding him back.
yes hes aging, but he hasn't declined quite as dramatically like Jan did, and he still makes whoever else plays with him look better IMO.

I said before, we have nothing to lose by putting Rodon in for a few games and letting him learn and make his mistakes. From what Ive seen of him, he looks like he wants to defend, and takes responsibility for defending, and has something to prove as well so is motivated.
Motivation is something that Dier and Sanchez seemed to have lost.

Son and Kane played so well upto Xmas and clearly carried the rest of the team.

[GTO-3R]

NRS said:

GTO-3R said:

48k said:

Luke Chadwick has a Premier League winners medal and Harry Kane does not therefore by your logic Luke Chadwick is a better player than Harry Kane.

Not better, but more successful.

If Kane wants a Premier League medal and potentially a Champions League medal then he needs to leave Spurs. I'm not sure he will though unless Levy needs to sell him to pay off Jose

I think the opposite is perhaps true. Kane seems loyal despite clearly having the ability to play for a team that is certain to get lots more trophies. So to me it's more if Jose is too negative and destroys the "fun" of playing/attacking then that's more likely to be the reason he'd leave if he will ever leave. He can earn more trophies and money elsewhere, so it has to be the fans/teammates/fun of playing which is keeping him at Tottenham.

Indeed. Rooney could have stayed at Everton and probably won nothing but he left his boyhood club and won everything possible. Kane has to make the choice soon as he's 27 now and at/reaching his peak.

[TEKNOPUG]

GTO-3R said:

Indeed. Rooney could have stayed at Everton and probably won nothing but he left his boyhood club and won everything possible. Kane has to make the choice soon as he's 27 now and at/reaching his peak.

I'm in a similar position at the moment, as I'm also reaching my peak supporting prowess. I'm considering supporting Citeh in the summer for a few seasons, so I can enjoy winning some trophies and will have something to tell my grandchildren. Although I'm also tempted to support PSG as I think they will also be a force for the next few years.

On the international front, I still think it's unlikely for England to win a tournament, so I think I will switch my allegiance between Germany and Brazil.

[48k]

NRS said:

He can earn more trophies and money elsewhere, so it has to be the fans/teammates/fun of playing which is keeping him at Tottenham.

I think his close-knit family is a strong reason for him staying there. He's a local lad, married his school sweetheart, both sets of parents live close, so lots of opportunity for the grandparents to see the grandkids, babysit and so on. It's why I can't see him going abroad to join Poch at PSV but could see him going to Man City simply because less family upheval.

[NRS]

TEKNOPUG said:

GTO-3R said:

Indeed. Rooney could have stayed at Everton and probably won nothing but he left his boyhood club and won everything possible. Kane has to make the choice soon as he's 27 now and at/reaching his peak.

I'm in a similar position at the moment, as I'm also reaching my peak supporting prowess. I'm considering supporting Citeh in the summer for a few seasons, so I can enjoy winning some trophies and will have something to tell my grandchildren. Although I'm also tempted to support PSG as I think they will also be a force for the next few years.

On the international front, I still think it's unlikely for England to win a tournament, so I think I will switch my allegiance between Germany and Brazil.

Hm, you might be onto something here. The second Sye disappeared we went to st! Maybe his super positive support and lack of awareness of how he appeared to other team's supporters was the reason for our success?!

48k said:

NRS said:

He can earn more trophies and money elsewhere, so it has to be the fans/teammates/fun of playing which is keeping him at Tottenham.

I think his close-knit family is a strong reason for him staying there. He's a local lad, married his school sweetheart, both sets of parents live close, so lots of opportunity for the grandparents to see the grandkids, babysit and so on. It's why I can't see him going abroad to join Poch at PSV but could see him going to Man City simply because less family upheval.

That's a good point. Going there it would be a new language, they drink loads, it's crowded, smelly and a bit run down. But at least it's in the same country.