The Official Arsenal - 14 x Cup Winners Thread (Vol 5)
Discussion
Full credit to Liverpool, i cringe at the term world-class but that’s what that Salah goal was, it was similar to many goals Aguero has scored down the years, it had it all - pace, balance, skill and a knowledge of the game. Made Gabriel look like a part-time player and i rate Gabriel as a good signing.
I won’t beat up on our team too hard, we finish the season as we started it, a mid-table team. It’s good to hope for more but that’s the state of the squad right now.
I won’t beat up on our team too hard, we finish the season as we started it, a mid-table team. It’s good to hope for more but that’s the state of the squad right now.
Yet again our whole season depends on Thursday evening, so if it all goes pear shaped should Arteta be allowed to carry on? Looking on the various transfer market websites, the only manager of any repute out there available free is Allegri, and he’s got no Prem experience so an unknown entity. Who would you go for?
Cupramax said:
Yet again our whole season depends on Thursday evening, so if it all goes pear shaped should Arteta be allowed to carry on? Looking on the various transfer market websites, the only manager of any repute out there available free is Allegri, and he’s got no Prem experience so an unknown entity. Who would you go for?
As I keep saying, it doesn't matter who is in charge until the Kronkes f
k off!! We don't even need Chelsea/Man City levels of investment, just owners who actually slightly give a st about the club.I was thinking we could get a top eight finish but now I’m thinking top ten at best which is absolutely shocking for Arsenal
Our entire season hangs on the EL now. To win it is a huge ask. Unfortunately we have a squad of very average players. Wenger, Emery and Arteta have all added to it and are all responsible. I can’t see the next 3-5 years being very positive. Average players on fairly long contracts and good money. Saka has been about the only positive this season
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the job is too big for Arteta. He does not have the experience to turn this around
I was talking to a young Gooner at work who is too young to remember Bergkamp etc. Thank god I’m not. I honestly don’t think I’ll see players of his caliber again at Arsenal in my lifetime
Memories are all I have
Our entire season hangs on the EL now. To win it is a huge ask. Unfortunately we have a squad of very average players. Wenger, Emery and Arteta have all added to it and are all responsible. I can’t see the next 3-5 years being very positive. Average players on fairly long contracts and good money. Saka has been about the only positive this season
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the job is too big for Arteta. He does not have the experience to turn this around
I was talking to a young Gooner at work who is too young to remember Bergkamp etc. Thank god I’m not. I honestly don’t think I’ll see players of his caliber again at Arsenal in my lifetime
Memories are all I have
Allyc85 said:
Cupramax said:
Yet again our whole season depends on Thursday evening, so if it all goes pear shaped should Arteta be allowed to carry on? Looking on the various transfer market websites, the only manager of any repute out there available free is Allegri, and he’s got no Prem experience so an unknown entity. Who would you go for?
As I keep saying, it doesn't matter who is in charge until the Kronkes fk off!! We are a mid table team/squad, and other than the odd good cup run here and there, that's all we're going to be under Silent Stan's or Kreonke Jnr's ownership.
Fans just need to accept that, and stop pretending otherwise.
The manager situation is a tricky one - I honestly think that Arteta has something about him but the harsh truth of it is that performances and results are too inconsistent and just plain not good enough. Good wins against Chelsea, United and Spurs this season show so much promise but there is never long to wait before an absolute howler, and they tend to come in groups. It really has been a case of one step forward and two steps back. After the north London Derby we were all of a sudden breathing down the necks of Spurs and Liverpool but a couple of games later and that momentum has been thrown away again.
I was critical of Chelsea when they sacked Frank - what is the point of appointing a young manager and sacking him when things don't immediately go to plan? Surely you should take a longer term approach. But it is impossible to argue with the decision as Tuchel has turned the team on its head since coming in.
Allegri would have a similar effect I'd imagine, and has the kind of reputation that players would join the club for.
There isn't a huge amount to play for left this season, but I wouldn't rule out winning the Europa at all. Bookies have us second favourites behind United and last season's FA cup shows that we are capable of winning cup ties. But limping out in the quarters or semi finals and finishing around about where we currently are in the league would be, let's face it, a pretty st season.
All pointless to think about though really, as we all know that Arteta will be given more time - at least next season. I'm really rooting for him as I genuinely think he has the makings of a good manager.
I was critical of Chelsea when they sacked Frank - what is the point of appointing a young manager and sacking him when things don't immediately go to plan? Surely you should take a longer term approach. But it is impossible to argue with the decision as Tuchel has turned the team on its head since coming in.
Allegri would have a similar effect I'd imagine, and has the kind of reputation that players would join the club for.
There isn't a huge amount to play for left this season, but I wouldn't rule out winning the Europa at all. Bookies have us second favourites behind United and last season's FA cup shows that we are capable of winning cup ties. But limping out in the quarters or semi finals and finishing around about where we currently are in the league would be, let's face it, a pretty s
t season. All pointless to think about though really, as we all know that Arteta will be given more time - at least next season. I'm really rooting for him as I genuinely think he has the makings of a good manager.
Claptonian said:
I was critical of Chelsea when they sacked Frank - what is the point of appointing a young manager and sacking him when things don't immediately go to plan? Surely you should take a longer term approach. But it is impossible to argue with the decision as Tuchel has turned the team on its head since coming in.
Until coming up against the willy old PL experience of Fat Sam at the weekend.....The problem with Arteta, is that, he's learnt a lot under Pep, playing a system that suits much better players than we have at the moment, or likely to have. I think he needs to find a system that best suits the tools at his disposal, not the system that he wants to play using unsuitable tools.
I don't think we have much other manager/coach options anyway, as I just don't think a top manager will be heading to the Emirates, as they won't be given the budget that they would want. Allegri won't heading to Emirates anytime soon.
This season hangs on the Europa League now.
aeropilot said:
Until coming up against the willy old PL experience of Fat Sam at the weekend.....
The problem with Arteta, is that, he's learnt a lot under Pep, playing a system that suits much better players than we have at the moment, or likely to have. I think he needs to find a system that best suits the tools at his disposal, not the system that he wants to play using unsuitable tools.
I don't think we have much other manager/coach options anyway, as I just don't think a top manager will be heading to the Emirates, as they won't be given the budget that they would want. Allegri won't heading to Emirates anytime soon.
This season hangs on the Europa League now.
Arsenal is a very desirable destination for managers - good wages, great city, famous and high profile club and a famously patient hierarchy that will give them time to implement their ideas and plenty of potential with young players in the squad. Allegri would come if we wanted him. It was well reported, by the likes of Ornstein, that after Wenger left this was the case. I think people downplay Arsenal in this sense sometimes. The problem with Arteta, is that, he's learnt a lot under Pep, playing a system that suits much better players than we have at the moment, or likely to have. I think he needs to find a system that best suits the tools at his disposal, not the system that he wants to play using unsuitable tools.
I don't think we have much other manager/coach options anyway, as I just don't think a top manager will be heading to the Emirates, as they won't be given the budget that they would want. Allegri won't heading to Emirates anytime soon.
This season hangs on the Europa League now.
Regardless, Arteta is staying for the time being. I agree with you about his system and the players we have. I'm optimistic though - Partey, Saka and ESR are undoubtedly good enough to play this type of football. Hopefully Odegaard can be added to that list if we can either loan again or buy him. Tierney as well. Martinelli will hopefully become another one (bloody injuries).
There is potential in the squad. The summer will be interesting.
Claptonian said:
aeropilot said:
Until coming up against the willy old PL experience of Fat Sam at the weekend.....
The problem with Arteta, is that, he's learnt a lot under Pep, playing a system that suits much better players than we have at the moment, or likely to have. I think he needs to find a system that best suits the tools at his disposal, not the system that he wants to play using unsuitable tools.
I don't think we have much other manager/coach options anyway, as I just don't think a top manager will be heading to the Emirates, as they won't be given the budget that they would want. Allegri won't heading to Emirates anytime soon.
This season hangs on the Europa League now.
Arsenal is a very desirable destination for managers - good wages, great city, famous and high profile club and a famously patient hierarchy that will give them time to implement their ideas and plenty of potential with young players in the squad. Allegri would come if we wanted him. The problem with Arteta, is that, he's learnt a lot under Pep, playing a system that suits much better players than we have at the moment, or likely to have. I think he needs to find a system that best suits the tools at his disposal, not the system that he wants to play using unsuitable tools.
I don't think we have much other manager/coach options anyway, as I just don't think a top manager will be heading to the Emirates, as they won't be given the budget that they would want. Allegri won't heading to Emirates anytime soon.
This season hangs on the Europa League now.
What makes you say Allegri would come if we wanted him? He was free to come for nearly 6 months prior to Arteta taking over, so either he didn't want to come or the club didn't want him, so that kind of makes your statement pointless.
Claptonian said:
The manager situation is a tricky one - I honestly think that Arteta has something about him but the harsh truth of it is that performances and results are too inconsistent and just plain not good enough.
We moaned (I know i did) when we had our golden younger generation led by Fabregas and when they were inconsistent. We loved them when they were not but there were plenty of times they did not turn up because, they were too young and not ready.A young squad in 2021 welded to Xhaka in the centre of the park is not going to produce anything but what you have described.
We will only know Arteta's skill level as a manger until the club arms him with the players that he needs. The squad has come so far since September, the club took some risks in January which have born some fruit but the rot has not been fully expunged, there's only so much you can do outside of a summer window.
aeropilot said:
Arsenal WAS a very desirable destination for managers.... The AFC of 10-20 years ago is not the AFC of today.
What makes you say Allegri would come if we wanted him? He was free to come for nearly 6 months prior to Arteta taking over, so either he didn't want to come or the club didn't want him, so that kind of makes your statement pointless.
Well Allegri didn't go to Chelsea (twice) or Barcelona either and he was available when both were looking for a manager recently. The fact that he didn't end up at any of them doesn't mean he wouldn't go. What makes you say Allegri would come if we wanted him? He was free to come for nearly 6 months prior to Arteta taking over, so either he didn't want to come or the club didn't want him, so that kind of makes your statement pointless.
My statement was based simply on the fact that a number of very good journalists, such as Ornstein confirmed that there was A LOT of interest from high profile managers a couple of years back after Wenger left. And for the reasons I listed above. If you disagree that is fine, but it is a high profile club with patient owners, a huge fanbase and pays managers handsomely. Allegri was just an example, that someone else brought up.
Edit - sorry, it was me who brought up Allegri but just as an example of a manager similar to Tuchel when Chelsea brought him in a couple of months back (big name and available).
Edited by Claptonian on Tuesday 6th April 15:54
Carl_Manchester said:
We moaned (I know i did) when we had our golden younger generation led by Fabregas and when they were inconsistent. We loved them when they were not but there were plenty of times they did not turn up because, they were too young and not ready.
A young squad in 2021 welded to Xhaka in the centre of the park is not going to produce anything but what you have described.
We will only know Arteta's skill level as a manger until the club arms him with the players that he needs. The squad has come so far since September, the club took some risks in January which have born some fruit but the rot has not been fully expunged, there's only so much you can do outside of a summer window.
I agree 100%! Hence why I listed, what, 5 players that the club could build around? Though apparently there are some good players in the youth setup but I must admit I don't follow it closely unlike other fans! A young squad in 2021 welded to Xhaka in the centre of the park is not going to produce anything but what you have described.
We will only know Arteta's skill level as a manger until the club arms him with the players that he needs. The squad has come so far since September, the club took some risks in January which have born some fruit but the rot has not been fully expunged, there's only so much you can do outside of a summer window.
I think Edu (or whoever it is) has made great strides in shifting the flab from the squad. Problem is that no one knows how much money will be there to be spent in the summer - other than the fact that it is unlikely to be much.
As I said, I think arteta has something about him and appointing rookie managers and not giving them plenty of time is a fool's game - and arsenal are going to give him plenty of time.
Claptonian said:
but it is a high profile club with patient owners
The only thing the owners care about is making money, they didn't buy the club to win trophies, and have stated that fact publically.Some of us have some realism regarding the club, rather than pure blinkered faith, but you're welcome to follow Alice.
aeropilot said:
The only thing the owners care about is making money, they didn't buy the club to win trophies, and have stated that fact publically.
Some of us have some realism regarding the club, rather than pure blinkered faith, but you're welcome to follow Alice.
Come on - we can have a discussion without resorting to that can't we?Some of us have some realism regarding the club, rather than pure blinkered faith, but you're welcome to follow Alice.
You say that no high profile managers want to come here - I've said that it was well reported by trustworthy sources that just a couple of years ago that was categorically not the case. Maybe you're right and things have really changed in those two years. It's a small point though and hardly a reason to start getting personal. I've also said that I want Arteta to continue anyway so it wasn't even the point of my original post that you replied to. Just making the point that it is hard to criticise Chelsea in hindsight for getting rid of their manager when you can see the difference Tuchel has made (weekend result aside).
I have no blinkered faith - I know where the club currently is. I've been supporting them for 30 years so there isn't much I haven't seen and know where this squad stands. I remember Nayim from the halfway line and Wrexham in the FA cup as well as I remember the Invincibles and I know where this squad ranks in the grand scheme of things. There's lots of work to do and I hope Arteta gets it right.
Allyc85 said:
fk, sake! I really should disown the mate who brainwashed me as a kid into supporting Arsenal.
At least you have a reason like that. k, sake! I really should disown the mate who brainwashed me as a kid into supporting Arsenal.I only started watching football in 2014 because a mate dragged me to the pub with him to watch the WC games. I enjoyed it, and spent the next 18-24 motnhs just watching a lot as a neutral. After a while I found myself gravitating towards Arsenal more than any other team, to the point that for the last five years I've firmly been a fan of the club.
So while I am aware they happened I don't even remember any of the late 90s and early 00s glory years, I wasn't watching football then. I started supporting when Arsenal were firmly in the doldrums, to be polite. No idea why, it just seemed right.
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