The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 19]

[Pommy]

Are we talking about Liverpool Captain, has been England Captain, has been FWA Player of the Year and Senior England Player of the Year and with 58 England caps, 8 as Captain Jordan Henderson?

Bang average mate, not everyone rates him. Not the Liverpool Manager and England Manager, you know, those who matter.

Wouldn't even be in the top 500 of all time PL player.

[Flip Martian]

Guvernator said:

I'm not comparing him to you or me, that would be stupid. I'm comparing him to his peers where it's definitely possible to recognise the average players from the really great ones.

With all respect, I think I'd probably take the opinion of his peers from any other club over internet forum johnny (no offence meant) any day. If you CAN find any negative quotes from other footballers about him though, I'm all ears.

[Adam.]

Guvernator said:

JeffreyD said:

You both seem to be making an argument no Liverpool fan is

The poster said that Henderson deserves to be spoken about in his own right rather than in comparison to Gerrard.

He actually said I know there will always be comparisons to Gerrard which is a subtle but important difference to how you've just put it.

Of course they will be compared - both Liverpool captains, both have from midfield, both won CL, one came very close to winning PL, one did.

No one here has said JH is as talented a footballer as Gerrard but he had been as influential a captain IMO. The best CEO is the best leader not the best finance or legal or operations or HR person.

It’s no coincidence some of his injuries or suspensions have coincided with a slump in our form.

He does the dirty stuff well, rarely makes mistakes and has huge fitness and is a decent honourable guy, that’s how he leads by example. And is a very effective footballer.

The fact Spurs fans can’t acknowledge that and just try to take the piss, whereas a United fan can makes it more funny

Edited by Adam. on Wednesday 9th June 14:46

[Adam.]

All the Spurs WUM crap about not rated for England made me think of the last WC when he was highly regarded and did well IIRC

So a quick google and this summarises him well I think:

“Unsung but vital. Worked tirelessly throughout and added a more positive edge to his game. Has made the pivot role his own, and is also the consummate professional and character.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44834111

The public vote made him 4th best in the team FWIW ahead of Kane and Alli

Edited by Adam. on Wednesday 9th June 14:54

[Cie]

Adam. said:

The fact Spurs fans can’t acknowledge that and just try to take the piss, whereas a United fan can makes it more funny

Edited by Adam. on Wednesday 9th June 14:46

Spurs fans have no clue how influential those types of players can be in trophy winning teams

[ferrisbueller]

Cie said:

Adam. said:

The fact Spurs fans can’t acknowledge that and just try to take the piss, whereas a United fan can makes it more funny

Edited by Adam. on Wednesday 9th June 14:46

Spurs fans have no clue how influential those types of players can be in trophy winning teams

Who was in their midfield when Spurs last won something?

[paulrockliffe]

Cie said:

Adam. said:

The fact Spurs fans can’t acknowledge that and just try to take the piss, whereas a United fan can makes it more funny

Edited by Adam. on Wednesday 9th June 14:46

Spurs fans have no clue how influential those types of players can be in trophy winning teams

True, they also argued for Eric Dier to play midfield for England ahead of Henderson so......

[Adam.]

Cie said:

Spurs fans have no clue how influential those types of players can be in trophy winning teams

Yeah like Keane once said - his job was to win the ball and give it to the better players.

It’s not flash but it’s vital. Carrick is a great example, Kante probably current best though less of a leader

[SydneyBridge]

Gerrard was an excellent player in an average team (mostly). I remember seasons when he was motd nearly every week.

Henderson, is a very good player and an excellent captain, in a very good team (mostly...). He is part of a team.

[jammy-git]

Cie said:

Adam. said:

The fact Spurs fans can’t acknowledge that and just try to take the piss, whereas a United fan can makes it more funny

Edited by Adam. on Wednesday 9th June 14:46

Spurs fans have no clue how influential those types of players can be in about trophy winning teams

[jammy-git]

As of July 2020, Liverpool with Henderson starting:
Games: 65
Wins: 48
Draws: 11
Defeats: 6
Goals per game: 1.98
Goals against per game: 0.7

Points per game: 2.38
Win rate: 73.8%

Liverpool without Henderson starting:
Games: 43
Wins: 29
Draws: 5
Defeats: 9
Goals per game: 2.2
Goals against per game: 1.18

Points per game: 2.13
Win rate: 67.4%

Yup, we're definitely carrying him. Seriously those Spurs boys do embarrass themselves on here a lot.

[Flip Martian]

jammy-git said:

As of July 2020, Liverpool with Henderson starting:
Games: 65
Wins: 48
Draws: 11
Defeats: 6
Goals per game: 1.98
Goals against per game: 0.7

Points per game: 2.38
Win rate: 73.8%

Liverpool without Henderson starting:
Games: 43
Wins: 29
Draws: 5
Defeats: 9
Goals per game: 2.2
Goals against per game: 1.18

Points per game: 2.13
Win rate: 67.4%

Yup, we're definitely carrying him. Seriously those Spurs boys do embarrass themselves on here a lot.

What is interesting in those latter figures is how positively they were skewed by our good run-in. 8 wins out of the last 10, was it? All without him. Prior to that, the "without him" win %age would have looked much worse.

[NRS]

Yet again Spurs fans wander in and selectively argue a random point no on is saying. No one is saying Hendo is as talented as Gerrard or similar. However, you need a balance to a team, and hard working players who are solid and do the right thing. And the skills to be a role model and a decent captain are very different from being talented. You need both types of players, if you only have "fancy" players they typically lose the ball a lot more and you concede goals. A solid midfielder who can hold the ball up, move it around and makes the right pass consistently doesn't look spectacular, but is important. Particularly in a team like ours where we have/had the high press and if we lose the ball in midfield we only have a few defenders to stop the counter attack.

It's amazing we were the best club in the world, Europe and the PL, considering we had a overrated poor keeper, a cheapo relegation LB, a expensive CB plus another CB and RB, no midfield and bang average Bobby up front. All said by Spurs fans. So the only decent players we had seem to be Salah, Mane, perhaps VvD and TTA? Not bad results considering that...

[General Price]

NRS said:

Yet again Spurs fans wander in and selectively argue a random point no on is saying. No one is saying Hendo is as talented as Gerrard or similar. However, you need a balance to a team, and hard working players who are solid and do the right thing. And the skills to be a role model and a decent captain are very different from being talented. You need both types of players, if you only have "fancy" players they typically lose the ball a lot more and you concede goals. A solid midfielder who can hold the ball up, move it around and makes the right pass consistently doesn't look spectacular, but is important. Particularly in a team like ours where we have/had the high press and if we lose the ball in midfield we only have a few defenders to stop the counter attack.

It's amazing we were the best club in the world, Europe and the PL, considering we had a overrated poor keeper, a cheapo relegation LB, a expensive CB plus another CB and RB, no midfield and bang average Bobby up front. All said by Spurs fans. So the only decent players we had seem to be Salah, Mane, perhaps VvD and TTA? Not bad results considering that...

You forgot VAR and dodgy refs.

[jammy-git]

Flip Martian said:

jammy-git said:

As of July 2020, Liverpool with Henderson starting:
Games: 65
Wins: 48
Draws: 11
Defeats: 6
Goals per game: 1.98
Goals against per game: 0.7

Points per game: 2.38
Win rate: 73.8%

Liverpool without Henderson starting:
Games: 43
Wins: 29
Draws: 5
Defeats: 9
Goals per game: 2.2
Goals against per game: 1.18

Points per game: 2.13
Win rate: 67.4%

Yup, we're definitely carrying him. Seriously those Spurs boys do embarrass themselves on here a lot.

What is interesting in those latter figures is how positively they were skewed by our good run-in. 8 wins out of the last 10, was it? All without him. Prior to that, the "without him" win %age would have looked much worse.

That's July 2020, so doesn't include this season. I think if this season was to be included it would look even more favourable for him.

[GloverMart]

jammy-git said:

Flip Martian said:

jammy-git said:

As of July 2020, Liverpool with Henderson starting:
Games: 65
Wins: 48
Draws: 11
Defeats: 6
Goals per game: 1.98
Goals against per game: 0.7

Points per game: 2.38
Win rate: 73.8%

Liverpool without Henderson starting:
Games: 43
Wins: 29
Draws: 5
Defeats: 9
Goals per game: 2.2
Goals against per game: 1.18

Points per game: 2.13
Win rate: 67.4%

Yup, we're definitely carrying him. Seriously those Spurs boys do embarrass themselves on here a lot.

What is interesting in those latter figures is how positively they were skewed by our good run-in. 8 wins out of the last 10, was it? All without him. Prior to that, the "without him" win %age would have looked much worse.

That's July 2020, so doesn't include this season. I think if this season was to be included it would look even more favourable for him.

Flip's good, but he's no Sye.

[Adam.]

NRS said:

Yet again Spurs fans wander in and selectively argue a random point no on is saying.

Their team is going backwards, no CL, no one wants to manage them and their star striker wants to leave. I suspect we will get a few of these over the summer.

Deflection tactics Jose would be proud of.

[BadBull]

Let them get on with it. It's hilarious.

[Flip Martian]

GloverMart said:

jammy-git said:

Flip Martian said:

jammy-git said:

As of July 2020, Liverpool with Henderson starting:
Games: 65
Wins: 48
Draws: 11
Defeats: 6
Goals per game: 1.98
Goals against per game: 0.7

Points per game: 2.38
Win rate: 73.8%

Liverpool without Henderson starting:
Games: 43
Wins: 29
Draws: 5
Defeats: 9
Goals per game: 2.2
Goals against per game: 1.18

Points per game: 2.13
Win rate: 67.4%

Yup, we're definitely carrying him. Seriously those Spurs boys do embarrass themselves on here a lot.

What is interesting in those latter figures is how positively they were skewed by our good run-in. 8 wins out of the last 10, was it? All without him. Prior to that, the "without him" win %age would have looked much worse.

That's July 2020, so doesn't include this season. I think if this season was to be included it would look even more favourable for him.

Flip's good, but he's no Sye.

Teach me NOT TO SPEED READ...

[Flip Martian]

Adam. said:

Their team is going backwards, no CL, no one wants to manage them and their star striker wants to leave. I suspect we will get a few of these over the summer.

Deflection tactics Jose would be proud of.

I suspect when they sink to regular top 12 mediocrity, they might be more apathetic and quiet.