The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 19]
Discussion
Good article regarding whether player welfare should become profit:
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/07/liverpools-9...
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/07/liverpools-9...
type-r said:
Good article regarding whether player welfare should become profit:
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/07/liverpools-9...
If that's the price to pay to play top level football it doesn't seem too onerous. https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/07/liverpools-9...
Plenty of people work in a factory with no windows and close to minimum wage for 40 years.
If they don't like it they don't have to do it.
type-r said:
Good article regarding whether player welfare should become profit:
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/07/liverpools-9...
Ultimately I think its players who have a chance to earn huge sums in elite sport - and they see it as a path to that. Like the Brazilian lad, they probably don't know how well they can cope with a fairly nomadic and temporary life in an alien environment until they try it. As long as they know what they're getting in to, I don't really object to it. You would think, however, that LFC would send players to clubs they have arrangements with that can develop talent. Not adopt a "throw enough mud at the wall and see how much sticks" approach which with all the random clubs, seems more likely (maybe I'm wrong to assume that).https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/07/liverpools-9...
ChocolateFrog said:
If that's the price to pay to play top level football it doesn't seem too onerous.
Plenty of people work in a factory with no windows and close to minimum wage for 40 years.
If they don't like it they don't have to do it.
Plus the need to pay off the £50m investment in the shiny new Kirby I suppose. The conveyor belt of prospective talent will still arrive in future too from South America and Africa - my only thought is, is it ethical? To buy a player knowing that they almost probably won't make it but there is a potential to flip them for profit in future. Whilst they are compensated, there is a feeling of human capital.Plenty of people work in a factory with no windows and close to minimum wage for 40 years.
If they don't like it they don't have to do it.
Edited by type-r on Thursday 22 July 11:24
type-r said:
ChocolateFrog said:
If that's the price to pay to play top level football it doesn't seem too onerous.
Plenty of people work in a factory with no windows and close to minimum wage for 40 years.
If they don't like it they don't have to do it.
Plus the need to pay off the £50m investment in the shiny new Kirby I suppose. The conveyor belt of prospective talent will still arrive in future too from South America and Africa - my only thought is, is it ethical? To buy a player knowing that they almost probably won't make it but there is a potential to flip them for profit in future. Whilst they are compensated, there is a feeling of human capital.Plenty of people work in a factory with no windows and close to minimum wage for 40 years.
If they don't like it they don't have to do it.
Edited by type-r on Thursday 22 July 11:24
NRS said:
I guess it's hard to answer, in that do we know they won't make it - or is it just that very few will make it with us anyway. Think about all the youth talent we talk about on these pages. Almost none make it. If you sign for Liverpool or other top teams as young players you're probably above 90% chance of not making it for the club. Top clubs tend to buy ready-made players, with the odd youth prodigy thrown in (maybe 1 a decade?).
If you look at UTD I think they have had a youth player in every squad for about 50 years. So it can happen.My brother (who is now mid 40s) got a trainee and subsequent pro contract with a lower league club back in the day. It really was the be all and end all of his life.
The way he was treated was appalling - next to zero education and when his time was up they literally showed him the door with no notice. So he went from what had looked like a promising career to scrabbling around for a contract and after a couple of years in the conference he jacked it in. In the conference it was part time and he was earning well for his age, but he'd just lost interest and the game really was a toxic cess pit back then.
Fast forward nearly 30 years and for a few years I was a director of a really forward thinking football agency and the way the clubs were set up was much better and some care is shown to the players but the world of agents and coaches is still a toxic cess pit - and one in which doing the right thing regularly costs you a lot of money.
Flip Martian said:
type-r said:
Good article regarding whether player welfare should become profit:
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/07/liverpools-9...
Ultimately I think its players who have a chance to earn huge sums in elite sport - and they see it as a path to that. Like the Brazilian lad, they probably don't know how well they can cope with a fairly nomadic and temporary life in an alien environment until they try it. As long as they know what they're getting in to, I don't really object to it. You would think, however, that LFC would send players to clubs they have arrangements with that can develop talent. Not adopt a "throw enough mud at the wall and see how much sticks" approach which with all the random clubs, seems more likely (maybe I'm wrong to assume that).https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/07/liverpools-9...
The issue for me is potentially where they get signed up as young teenagers and then farmed out to second rate leagues in Europe often playing in tier 3 and 4. No family, no friends, cant speak the language, and I would presume limited support from the club that signed them or loaned them out. Must be pretty tough life, and no doubt you see why so many talented kids never make it.
Challo said:
I think if the player is staying at Liverpool and working his way through the youth set-ups then I don't have an issue. The top prem clubs all have good youth programs and I would presume there is an empathise on education, and looking at supporting them if they don't make the grade.
The issue for me is potentially where they get signed up as young teenagers and then farmed out to second rate leagues in Europe often playing in tier 3 and 4. No family, no friends, cant speak the language, and I would presume limited support from the club that signed them or loaned them out. Must be pretty tough life, and no doubt you see why so many talented kids never make it.
Yup, that latter part is the bit I don't like much. As long as the player knows what he's getting into, fair enough. It would be a hard existence (relatively) but with the promise of decent money, it would be attractive. But it sounds pretty much like its a very hard faced arrangement. "we rate you and think we can make money from you - but we're not going to develop you ourselves". I assume also loan fees cover their salaries. Football though is a very hard faced business.The issue for me is potentially where they get signed up as young teenagers and then farmed out to second rate leagues in Europe often playing in tier 3 and 4. No family, no friends, cant speak the language, and I would presume limited support from the club that signed them or loaned them out. Must be pretty tough life, and no doubt you see why so many talented kids never make it.
Flip Martian said:
Challo said:
I think if the player is staying at Liverpool and working his way through the youth set-ups then I don't have an issue. The top prem clubs all have good youth programs and I would presume there is an empathise on education, and looking at supporting them if they don't make the grade.
The issue for me is potentially where they get signed up as young teenagers and then farmed out to second rate leagues in Europe often playing in tier 3 and 4. No family, no friends, cant speak the language, and I would presume limited support from the club that signed them or loaned them out. Must be pretty tough life, and no doubt you see why so many talented kids never make it.
Yup, that latter part is the bit I don't like much. As long as the player knows what he's getting into, fair enough. It would be a hard existence (relatively) but with the promise of decent money, it would be attractive. But it sounds pretty much like its a very hard faced arrangement. "we rate you and think we can make money from you - but we're not going to develop you ourselves". I assume also loan fees cover their salaries. Football though is a very hard faced business.The issue for me is potentially where they get signed up as young teenagers and then farmed out to second rate leagues in Europe often playing in tier 3 and 4. No family, no friends, cant speak the language, and I would presume limited support from the club that signed them or loaned them out. Must be pretty tough life, and no doubt you see why so many talented kids never make it.
NRS said:
Is that not partly work permit related though? We can't get them to work in the UK, so they work in places they can get permits. If they turned out to be a new amazing youth talent we'd presumably then work harder at taking them to the UK earlier, but if they don't shine there's a lot less reason to try and push for us to get extra permits/ use the quota? on them?
Possibly so yes. Either way while the journalist writing the article sees them as young people first, clearly LFC (and other clubs no doubt) see them as "speculating".Flip Martian said:
NRS said:
Is that not partly work permit related though? We can't get them to work in the UK, so they work in places they can get permits. If they turned out to be a new amazing youth talent we'd presumably then work harder at taking them to the UK earlier, but if they don't shine there's a lot less reason to try and push for us to get extra permits/ use the quota? on them?
Possibly so yes. Either way while the journalist writing the article sees them as young people first, clearly LFC (and other clubs no doubt) see them as "speculating".Assets worth millions of pounds at that and if they make it the skies the limit and the balance of power swings back into their favour.
Starting XI vs Mainz.
Liverpool: Kelleher; Alexander-Arnold, Konate, Matip, Tsimikas; Milner, Elliott, Keita; Salah, Mane, Oxlade-Chamberlain
Subs: Adrian, Karius, H.Davies, Phillips, Koumetio, N.Williams, Bradley, Beck, Clarkson, Cain, Morton, Jones, Gordon, Jota, Minamino, Origi
Ox really getting a run out as an out-and-out striker. Interesting move - one that I like. His goal against Burnley (?) back end of last year was superb. I imagine Klopp is weighing up if he needs to go back into the market or if Ox can be moulded over time to be Bobby's long term replacement, with the right support.
Liverpool: Kelleher; Alexander-Arnold, Konate, Matip, Tsimikas; Milner, Elliott, Keita; Salah, Mane, Oxlade-Chamberlain
Subs: Adrian, Karius, H.Davies, Phillips, Koumetio, N.Williams, Bradley, Beck, Clarkson, Cain, Morton, Jones, Gordon, Jota, Minamino, Origi
Ox really getting a run out as an out-and-out striker. Interesting move - one that I like. His goal against Burnley (?) back end of last year was superb. I imagine Klopp is weighing up if he needs to go back into the market or if Ox can be moulded over time to be Bobby's long term replacement, with the right support.
There has been a lot of talk about Klopp planning to use Ox as a false 9 - an alternative to Bobby, essentially. Which would free up Jota to be in for Sadio or Mo - which would keep them all fresh, longer. If it means they don't need to buy a striker, that clearly saves money for elsewhere.
Nice positive interview with Sadio - first time since he came to Liverpool he's had more than a week or 2 for his summer break "Wow, what a season it’s going to be for us again".
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/438612...
Nice positive interview with Sadio - first time since he came to Liverpool he's had more than a week or 2 for his summer break "Wow, what a season it’s going to be for us again".
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/438612...
Apparently Wilson is off.... hopefully it's a permanent deal!
https://mobile.twitter.com/dmlynch/status/14186036...
https://mobile.twitter.com/dmlynch/status/14186036...
Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff