The Official Euro 2020 thread....
Discussion
Flip Martian said:
jcremonini said:
It’s not just the England fans who hate the Scots - even those who don’t follow football can’t stand them.
That's a really strange and inaccurate thing to say. Your world view must be pretty narrow and bitter.We were beaten last night, no excuses, no dodgy penalty decisions etc, just not good enough.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/footb...
The Welsh press complaining about a raw deal for the Welsh and England getting it easy.
The Dutch stance is unfair. Breaking their own rules to allow Danish fans in, but banning Welsh fans isn't right. Considering UEFA forced England to accept 2500 VIP hanger-ons surely stadium hosting games at this stage should be a little more equal and fair?
The Welsh press complaining about a raw deal for the Welsh and England getting it easy.
The Dutch stance is unfair. Breaking their own rules to allow Danish fans in, but banning Welsh fans isn't right. Considering UEFA forced England to accept 2500 VIP hanger-ons surely stadium hosting games at this stage should be a little more equal and fair?
Murph7355 said:
Made it out of the group, which is a bonus.
But I have no clue what Southgate's "tactics" are.
We only ever looked like pressing forwards when Saka, Grealish or Shaw were on the ball. Possibly even Stones, after Henderson came on (who you could see shouting at the back line telling them to push forwards).
Maguire is too slow for me. Mings was better with Stones, but Southgate took the latter off for him?!
Walker was OK, but I always thought Walker's big thing was being able to break up the wing. And he did none of that.
Rice was a complete waste of a player. We may as well have played with 10 as have him on the pitch.
And the same goes for Kane. He spent half the match in our own half, even when there were three or four other England players further up field. Something is not right with him - undoubtedly a good player when on it, but we cannot carry someone who's not there.
Sterling does more wrong than he does right. Tonight's goal was a good one, but it wasn't made by him at all.
Bellingham, Rashford and Sancho weren't on long enough to find anything out about them. Pointless subs.
Pickford at least didn't look like an accident in waiting most of the time (Walker chesting it to him would have been destined to nutmeg him on another day, and some of his footwork was iffy).
Philips had a great first game, battling and pushing forwards. Has done not very much in the last two. Almost looks like he wants to but daren't.
Playing this way that team will get battered by Germany or Portugal. France likely too. Basically any team that attacks and we'll end up with 10 players in our own 6yd box for most of the game, Kane likely being one of them, hoping the ball comes out and Sterling remembers which way he should be running and what with.
Brief flashes of the game show we can be dangerous. But they were way too brief.
Out in the next round. Italy or Germany to be eventual winners.
An decent summary. As a Leeds fan I keep an eye a lot on what Phillips is doing and you're right, after the first game where it seemed like he was given the freedom to roam around a bit, the following games feel as if he's been told not to move further than 10m into the opposition half, not to make any tackles and only pass to a player within 10m of him.But I have no clue what Southgate's "tactics" are.
We only ever looked like pressing forwards when Saka, Grealish or Shaw were on the ball. Possibly even Stones, after Henderson came on (who you could see shouting at the back line telling them to push forwards).
Maguire is too slow for me. Mings was better with Stones, but Southgate took the latter off for him?!
Walker was OK, but I always thought Walker's big thing was being able to break up the wing. And he did none of that.
Rice was a complete waste of a player. We may as well have played with 10 as have him on the pitch.
And the same goes for Kane. He spent half the match in our own half, even when there were three or four other England players further up field. Something is not right with him - undoubtedly a good player when on it, but we cannot carry someone who's not there.
Sterling does more wrong than he does right. Tonight's goal was a good one, but it wasn't made by him at all.
Bellingham, Rashford and Sancho weren't on long enough to find anything out about them. Pointless subs.
Pickford at least didn't look like an accident in waiting most of the time (Walker chesting it to him would have been destined to nutmeg him on another day, and some of his footwork was iffy).
Philips had a great first game, battling and pushing forwards. Has done not very much in the last two. Almost looks like he wants to but daren't.
Playing this way that team will get battered by Germany or Portugal. France likely too. Basically any team that attacks and we'll end up with 10 players in our own 6yd box for most of the game, Kane likely being one of them, hoping the ball comes out and Sterling remembers which way he should be running and what with.
Brief flashes of the game show we can be dangerous. But they were way too brief.
Out in the next round. Italy or Germany to be eventual winners.
I don't like Maguire - his arrogance to get the ball and try and run it all the way into the opposition penalty area will cost us. I don't like Mings either but he's extremely effective at what he does - defend.
Did Rice touch the ball? What does Sterling offer apart from two goals which were entirely made for him. Arguably he should have taken it around the keeper or smashed it under him in the first few minutes last night but went for a lob. I know pundits keep telling us how amazing Bellingham is but I've seen absolutely zero to convince me of anything so far.
Southgate doesn't have a clue what his best lineup is. If it were me...
Pickford
Walker Mings Stones Trippier
Phillips
Saka Mount Henderson Grealish
Foden
Kane
CustardOnChips said:
JmatthewB said:
I disagree with the comments about England being too negative and not pressing forwards enough and too slow in the build up. Some of our best moments last night came after a spell of possession in our own half and waiting for one of their midfielders to come out then we played it into the vacated space for Grealish or Saka and we're away.
I know it's a bit joyless when we get a corner and it ends up back with our goalkeeper, but that's because the Czech defenders cleared the first phase. It's better to maintain possession after the initial clearance rather than try a 'hollywood' ball, lose possession and leave ourselves vulnerable to a counter-attack.
Playing more direct will just give the opposition more of the ball and we lose control of the game. This exact thing happened in the 2018 semi-final second half, we started to get nervous, abandoned our slow-build up play and started hitting it long, lost the ball and Croatia dominated us.
Spot on. I know it's a bit joyless when we get a corner and it ends up back with our goalkeeper, but that's because the Czech defenders cleared the first phase. It's better to maintain possession after the initial clearance rather than try a 'hollywood' ball, lose possession and leave ourselves vulnerable to a counter-attack.
Playing more direct will just give the opposition more of the ball and we lose control of the game. This exact thing happened in the 2018 semi-final second half, we started to get nervous, abandoned our slow-build up play and started hitting it long, lost the ball and Croatia dominated us.
Edited by JmatthewB on Wednesday 23 June 09:09
It will be a different proposition against a team who will come at us. There will be a lot more space to play in in the final 3rd
RichB said:
And yet we didn't concede a single goal. He was asked to play defensive midfield sweeping up in front of the back four. Kalvin Philips was allowed the role of pushing forward. At West Ham he and Soucek alternate this with Rice frequently driving the play forward, Southgate clearly asked Rice not to go forward. He seems to get some stick on here but it's hard to criticise the defensive players given the zero goals conceded.
How many touches did he have in the three games? He seemed utterly anonymous. I would bet Shaw, Walker, Mings, Stones and Maguire had massively more time on the ball than Rice did. Even Pickford. So "we didn't concede a goal" in the context of how amazing Rice is doesn't really wash to me.
You could see Henderson shouting at the back line to push up, and in his first 10mins on the pitch yesterday he seemed to be trying to release the ball forwards. I'd be shocked if Rice's pass stats didn't have 90% of his touches going sideways or backwards.
I'm sure he's a great player for West Ham with different players around him. But if I were in charge he wouldn't be starting again.
MiniMan64 said:
I can deal with Sterling starting now to be honest, yes he falls over a lot and can’t always finish but he’s the player in form and I believe in that. ...
Sterling has been out of form for most of this season.Guardiola has preferred Foden (as far as I can tell) this season and there are plenty of rumours that Sterling is on the exit path at City. From a managerial perspective I know whose opinions I'd be more inclined to go with.
Sterling's scored twice, which is obviously great. But I simply do not see what the pundits are seeing. His first goal wasn't cleanly hit at all. The second was on a plate from great play from a couple of others. He's missed a few that high quality players shouldn't. And has fallen over a lot, been out of position, not passed when he should have etc.
With Foden having a yellow card and the team not needing any sort of result to qualify I guess Southgate has an excuse. Unfortunately I don't think that's at the root of it and he will continue to start Sterling and Kane.
As noted, I can see us getting spanked by Germany or Portugal if we're not careful.
I'd play Mings in place of Maguire. Henderson in place of Rice. Give Philips a freer role as he seemed to have in the first game. Foden on for Sterling. Calvert-Lewin for Kane (as shown yesterday, Saka and Grealish, plus Foden could give CL plenty of service and he'd be a handful in the box).
On the pundits...most have been giving England glowing feedback to the point I wonder what games I've been watching. I wonder if this is an attempt at avoiding media negativity. Roy Keane seems to be the only one talking straight.
DaveyBoyWonder said:
An decent summary. As a Leeds fan I keep an eye a lot on what Phillips is doing and you're right, after the first game where it seemed like he was given the freedom to roam around a bit, the following games feel as if he's been told not to move further than 10m into the opposition half, not to make any tackles and only pass to a player within 10m of him.
I don't like Maguire - his arrogance to get the ball and try and run it all the way into the opposition penalty area will cost us. I don't like Mings either but he's extremely effective at what he does - defend.
Did Rice touch the ball? What does Sterling offer apart from two goals which were entirely made for him. Arguably he should have taken it around the keeper or smashed it under him in the first few minutes last night but went for a lob. I know pundits keep telling us how amazing Bellingham is but I've seen absolutely zero to convince me of anything so far.
Southgate doesn't have a clue what his best lineup is. If it were me...
Pickford
Walker Mings Stones Trippier
Phillips
Saka Mount Henderson Grealish
Foden
Kane
You're best line up is 12 players?I don't like Maguire - his arrogance to get the ball and try and run it all the way into the opposition penalty area will cost us. I don't like Mings either but he's extremely effective at what he does - defend.
Did Rice touch the ball? What does Sterling offer apart from two goals which were entirely made for him. Arguably he should have taken it around the keeper or smashed it under him in the first few minutes last night but went for a lob. I know pundits keep telling us how amazing Bellingham is but I've seen absolutely zero to convince me of anything so far.
Southgate doesn't have a clue what his best lineup is. If it were me...
Pickford
Walker Mings Stones Trippier
Phillips
Saka Mount Henderson Grealish
Foden
Kane
I'd suggest that Southgate has more clue than you
DaveyBoyWonder said:
Murph7355 said:
Made it out of the group, which is a bonus.
But I have no clue what Southgate's "tactics" are.
We only ever looked like pressing forwards when Saka, Grealish or Shaw were on the ball. Possibly even Stones, after Henderson came on (who you could see shouting at the back line telling them to push forwards).
Maguire is too slow for me. Mings was better with Stones, but Southgate took the latter off for him?!
Walker was OK, but I always thought Walker's big thing was being able to break up the wing. And he did none of that.
Rice was a complete waste of a player. We may as well have played with 10 as have him on the pitch.
And the same goes for Kane. He spent half the match in our own half, even when there were three or four other England players further up field. Something is not right with him - undoubtedly a good player when on it, but we cannot carry someone who's not there.
Sterling does more wrong than he does right. Tonight's goal was a good one, but it wasn't made by him at all.
Bellingham, Rashford and Sancho weren't on long enough to find anything out about them. Pointless subs.
Pickford at least didn't look like an accident in waiting most of the time (Walker chesting it to him would have been destined to nutmeg him on another day, and some of his footwork was iffy).
Philips had a great first game, battling and pushing forwards. Has done not very much in the last two. Almost looks like he wants to but daren't.
Playing this way that team will get battered by Germany or Portugal. France likely too. Basically any team that attacks and we'll end up with 10 players in our own 6yd box for most of the game, Kane likely being one of them, hoping the ball comes out and Sterling remembers which way he should be running and what with.
Brief flashes of the game show we can be dangerous. But they were way too brief.
Out in the next round. Italy or Germany to be eventual winners.
An decent summary. As a Leeds fan I keep an eye a lot on what Phillips is doing and you're right, after the first game where it seemed like he was given the freedom to roam around a bit, the following games feel as if he's been told not to move further than 10m into the opposition half, not to make any tackles and only pass to a player within 10m of him.But I have no clue what Southgate's "tactics" are.
We only ever looked like pressing forwards when Saka, Grealish or Shaw were on the ball. Possibly even Stones, after Henderson came on (who you could see shouting at the back line telling them to push forwards).
Maguire is too slow for me. Mings was better with Stones, but Southgate took the latter off for him?!
Walker was OK, but I always thought Walker's big thing was being able to break up the wing. And he did none of that.
Rice was a complete waste of a player. We may as well have played with 10 as have him on the pitch.
And the same goes for Kane. He spent half the match in our own half, even when there were three or four other England players further up field. Something is not right with him - undoubtedly a good player when on it, but we cannot carry someone who's not there.
Sterling does more wrong than he does right. Tonight's goal was a good one, but it wasn't made by him at all.
Bellingham, Rashford and Sancho weren't on long enough to find anything out about them. Pointless subs.
Pickford at least didn't look like an accident in waiting most of the time (Walker chesting it to him would have been destined to nutmeg him on another day, and some of his footwork was iffy).
Philips had a great first game, battling and pushing forwards. Has done not very much in the last two. Almost looks like he wants to but daren't.
Playing this way that team will get battered by Germany or Portugal. France likely too. Basically any team that attacks and we'll end up with 10 players in our own 6yd box for most of the game, Kane likely being one of them, hoping the ball comes out and Sterling remembers which way he should be running and what with.
Brief flashes of the game show we can be dangerous. But they were way too brief.
Out in the next round. Italy or Germany to be eventual winners.
I don't like Maguire - his arrogance to get the ball and try and run it all the way into the opposition penalty area will cost us. I don't like Mings either but he's extremely effective at what he does - defend.
Did Rice touch the ball? What does Sterling offer apart from two goals which were entirely made for him. Arguably he should have taken it around the keeper or smashed it under him in the first few minutes last night but went for a lob. I know pundits keep telling us how amazing Bellingham is but I've seen absolutely zero to convince me of anything so far.
Southgate doesn't have a clue what his best lineup is. If it were me...
Pickford
Walker Mings Stones Trippier
Phillips
Saka Mount Henderson Grealish
Foden
Kane
TBH I think England have gone backwards since 2018. Southgate, I agree, just doesn't seem to know his best team.
Walker was incredibly negative last night.
Agree with Tripps back in. And I'd play that midfield you suggest as at least is should be positive.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
smn159 said:
abzmike said:
ddom said:
Could be worse. Could be Scotland.
Could be worse - could think we have a divine right to win the thing.Overall England are a QF team.
Scotland are a DNQ team, though with an expanded Euros squeaked in.
I wish Scotland had gone through, and they did play well against a lousy England performance. P1sspoor to lose the other two games at home though. And totally outclassed by Croatia.
Still, the Scotland team is in better shape than it's been probably since the late 80s.
48k said:
CustardOnChips said:
JmatthewB said:
I disagree with the comments about England being too negative and not pressing forwards enough and too slow in the build up. Some of our best moments last night came after a spell of possession in our own half and waiting for one of their midfielders to come out then we played it into the vacated space for Grealish or Saka and we're away.
I know it's a bit joyless when we get a corner and it ends up back with our goalkeeper, but that's because the Czech defenders cleared the first phase. It's better to maintain possession after the initial clearance rather than try a 'hollywood' ball, lose possession and leave ourselves vulnerable to a counter-attack.
Playing more direct will just give the opposition more of the ball and we lose control of the game. This exact thing happened in the 2018 semi-final second half, we started to get nervous, abandoned our slow-build up play and started hitting it long, lost the ball and Croatia dominated us.
Spot on. I know it's a bit joyless when we get a corner and it ends up back with our goalkeeper, but that's because the Czech defenders cleared the first phase. It's better to maintain possession after the initial clearance rather than try a 'hollywood' ball, lose possession and leave ourselves vulnerable to a counter-attack.
Playing more direct will just give the opposition more of the ball and we lose control of the game. This exact thing happened in the 2018 semi-final second half, we started to get nervous, abandoned our slow-build up play and started hitting it long, lost the ball and Croatia dominated us.
Edited by JmatthewB on Wednesday 23 June 09:09
It will be a different proposition against a team who will come at us. There will be a lot more space to play in in the final 3rd
We've topped the group without conceding a goal. Previous 'flair' England teams would have conceded against these so-called lesser opponents and made it difficult, how many times have we been in a 'must win' group stage game?
What Southgate has achieved so far has been dull but effective. He's experimented with various players but I am worried that he doesn't have a settled back four that effectively names itself, for when we meet inevitably stronger opposition.
My big worry is Harry Kane. He might be top scorer in the Prem, but I haven't seen anything in these last three group games to justify his selection, completely anonymous. In my view it was a huge mistake to leave Ollie Watkins out of the squad - I am biased in this as a Villa fan - but he's got a great record in his first season in the Prem, and his game is all about beating defences with his pace, rather than goal-hanging for a tap in like Kane seems to want to do.
PurpleTurtle said:
In my view it was a huge mistake to leave Ollie Watkins out of the squad - I am biased in this as a Villa fan
As an aside, and as an Exeter City fan Ollie Watkins is the gift that just keeps giving. £1.8M from his transfer to Brentford, then another (I think) £5+M from his transfer to Villa, then a six figure sum from his England debut, then a five figure sum from his appearance in the warm up game. It seems every five minutes we're trousering another hefty wedge thanks to Ollie's exploits, which to a club like ours really is invaluable.JNW1 said:
vonuber said:
Wales will go further than England.
Every chance of that to be honest...I want Wales to do well, but likewise after the Eriksen drama I hope Denmark do very well.
Antony Moxey said:
I'm pretty sure if six weeks ago we were told we'd top the group with seven points without conceding a goal, Scotland would finish bottom, we'd see decent match time (and performances) from Saka, Foden, Grealish and Mount, Sterling would continue his excellent international scoring form (is that now 14 goals in the last 19 games?) and we'd see Henderson and Maguire back after injury we'd all be quite pleased with that.
Of course. A bit selective though!If you also said we would only score two, be outplayed by Scotland, Kane looks like he is at 50% and we only look bright, creative and threatening in 20 of the 270 mins played maybe you would be less pleased.
mikeswagon said:
And these English 'fans' wonder why nobody likes them? You could do a poll of countries who have hosted the world cups for example, see what they think. Hopefully some of them will have good enough memories to recall us at a tournament.
We were beaten last night, no excuses, no dodgy penalty decisions etc, just not good enough.
Yup, since the first game its obvious Scotland don't really have anyone capable of taking chances regularly at that level. The goal last night was a belter though. Trouble is, Croatia got 3 of them.We were beaten last night, no excuses, no dodgy penalty decisions etc, just not good enough.
I'm going to be optimistic & say our (Gareth's) defensive tactics will be more suited against more attacking teams coming onto us & that will give us chances on the break with the likes of Sterling, Foden, Saka & Grealish.
Granted we'll still probably lose 4-2 but at least it won't be as boring! No, scratch that, it will suit our system & we'll win our next game! Optimism!
Granted we'll still probably lose 4-2 but at least it won't be as boring! No, scratch that, it will suit our system & we'll win our next game! Optimism!
benm3evo said:
I'm going to be optimistic & say our (Gareth's) defensive tactics will be more suited against more attacking teams coming onto us & that will give us chances on the break with the likes of Sterling, Foden, Saka & Grealish.
Granted we'll still probably lose 4-2 but at least it won't be as boring! No, scratch that, it will suit our system & we'll win our next game! Optimism!
There's a good chance he won't play 3 of those players against a good team. Granted we'll still probably lose 4-2 but at least it won't be as boring! No, scratch that, it will suit our system & we'll win our next game! Optimism!
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