The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)

[dickymint]

I'll say it again - fk who 'the manager' is we do not have a leader on the pitch where it really matters

[uk66fastback]

LF5335 said:

I reckon I could both manage a team to beat United currently and also manage a United team to deliver better results.

I've read some crap in here lately (and some acknowledgement of reality) but this is the best yet!

The Thread of Arrogance rears its head. Is there no end to your talents?

[dickymint]

uk66fastback said:

LF5335 said:

I reckon I could both manage a team to beat United currently and also manage a United team to deliver better results.

I've read some crap in here lately (and some acknowledgement of reality) but this is the best yet!

The Thread of Arrogance rears its head. Is there no end to your talents?

Whoah there careful who you're tarring with that brush

[CLK-GTR]

Forester1965 said:

The manager is responsible for the results.

Ultimately yes but there are a lot more people in the club who have a bigger share of blame on their shoulders than the manager.

[Forester1965]

CLK-GTR said:

Ultimately yes but there are a lot more people in the club who have a bigger share of blame on their shoulders than the manager.

In the wider sense (as in, how the club is run, how it buys, pays and sells players) you're right. However. The manager picks the players on the park. He decides how they train, the tactics and strategy. He has a lot more potential quality at his disposal than the teams immediately around him. He's failing, has failed. It's not getting better.

[Wacky Racer]

[Barchettaman]

That poor lad at centre forward should put in a transfer request.

Runs himself to a standstill every single game and no bugger ever passes him the ball.

[Challo]

LF5335 said:

As opposed to the proven leader we now have after two years at the helm?

Klopp had only managed in Germany.

All it takes is a commitment to a style of play and getting players to play that style. I reckon I could both manage a team to beat United currently and also manage a United team to deliver better results.

I agree with your point about Klopp, but my point is that we have managed to ruin Moyes, LVG, Jose, OGS and now ETH.

I would suspect that even with Alorim we would get a new manager bounce and then fail again.

SJR said in an interview after the marathon that's it going to take time. They need to get the right pieces in place at the top but there is something rotten about the club at the moment and with the squad.

Does changing ETH fix that? Who knows but who ever we get in is also a massive risk. EtH would be a manager we would be looking at if he was still at Ajax.

[simon800]

Challo said:

I agree with your point about Klopp, but my point is that we have managed to ruin Moyes, LVG, Jose, OGS and now ETH.

This is a really terrible take.

We ruined Moyes, LVG, Jose, OGS and ETH? Really?

Moyes was a mid table guy who got the job based on his Scottishness. Should never have been here. Went on to get sacked from 3 next jobs, took Sunderland down etc.

LVG had been out of club football for some time, it was always a gamble. Turns out his arrogant Dutch approach didn't suit the club (sounds familiar, hmmm).

Jose was a busted flush when he came here, he left Chelsea in a relegation battle. Was at Chelsea, turned toxic, got sacked. Came here, turned toxic, got sacked. Went to Spurs, turned toxic, got sacked. Went to Roma, turned toxic, got sacked. See a common denominator here? Hint, it's not us.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's managerial achievements prior to Man Utd were getting Cardiff relegated. He hasn't had a job since.

Ten Hag won a farmers league a couple of times, same thing De Boer achieved (the one who got sacked by Palace after 0 wins 0 goals in 4 games). That aside his greatest achievement was bottling a Champions League semi final to the champions of bottle jobs half a decade ago.

We've made bad appointments, simple as. None of these guys were good enough, hence none of them have gone on to manage any other top clubs since - I hardly see Bayern, Madrid and Barca queuing up to get Moyes and Solksjaer in....

Arguably Ten Hag was worth a punt - it simply hasn't worked, we should have got rid in October when it was obvious where this was heading.

Challo said:

EtH would be a manager we would be looking at if he was still at Ajax.

He's not though. He's here, has been given carte blanche in the transfer market, has signed a load of st players that need replacing and he can't manage his way out of a wet paper bag. Tactics rubbish, results rubbish, style of play rubbish, signings rubbish - what else can he be judged on?

Edited by simon800 on Monday 22 April 08:07

[Frimley111R]

Challo said:

LF5335 said:

As opposed to the proven leader we now have after two years at the helm?

Klopp had only managed in Germany.

All it takes is a commitment to a style of play and getting players to play that style. I reckon I could both manage a team to beat United currently and also manage a United team to deliver better results.

I agree with your point about Klopp, but my point is that we have managed to ruin Moyes, LVG, Jose, OGS and now ETH.

I would suspect that even with Alorim we would get a new manager bounce and then fail again.

SJR said in an interview after the marathon that's it going to take time. They need to get the right pieces in place at the top but there is something rotten about the club at the moment and with the squad.

Does changing ETH fix that? Who knows but who ever we get in is also a massive risk. EtH would be a manager we would be looking at if he was still at Ajax.

It does seem that problems within the club's structure are causing multiple issues and ETH is just the guy who front these issues.

I'd rather he stays and we see the club building in the background, a bit like an F1 team. Merc, for example, didn't ditch its manager when the team was not performing well because it knew that it was building up skills/resources for the future.

[LF5335]

Challo said:

I agree with your point about Klopp, but my point is that we have managed to ruin Moyes, LVG, Jose, OGS and now ETH.

I would suspect that even with Alorim we would get a new manager bounce and then fail again.

SJR said in an interview after the marathon that's it going to take time. They need to get the right pieces in place at the top but there is something rotten about the club at the moment and with the squad.

Does changing ETH fix that? Who knows but who ever we get in is also a massive risk. EtH would be a manager we would be looking at if he was still at Ajax.

We’re jumping through the sea hoops though every year “it’s a project”, “it will take time”, “we need to be patient” etc. the reality is that once again we’ve picked someone not up to the job. It’s not because the job is too big, it’s because he seems to lack the ability to create a coherent style of play and then have a Plan B when needed. Instead we get served up a random XI (often the same failing players) generally standing around or not paying attention while 2 or 3 of them run themselves into the ground. Sadly, of the ones doing that most 1 or 2 of them aren’t really good enough either.


I just can’t see any way that he survives this, or that he deserves to. Winning the FA Cup rightly made no difference to LVG and whatever happens in the Final shouldn’t matter to the decision with ETH. The problem will be that there’s no manager out there who fires the imagination.

[simon800]

When he does inevitably get sacked I hope he takes his bellend of a mate with him;

[LF5335]

uk66fastback said:

LF5335 said:

I reckon I could both manage a team to beat United currently and also manage a United team to deliver better results.

I've read some crap in here lately (and some acknowledgement of reality) but this is the best yet!

The Thread of Arrogance rears its head. Is there no end to your talents?

How is that anything to do with the thread being arrogant? I might be being arrogant about my ability, but I’m certainly not saying United are anything other than crap currently.

[Forester1965]

When you've oodles of money and run through a succession of managers, most of whom are known to be competent, you have to ask if it's just unlucky that you've gone through a load of them or a problem at your end?

[uk66fastback]

LF5335 said:

uk66fastback said:

LF5335 said:

I reckon I could both manage a team to beat United currently and also manage a United team to deliver better results.

I've read some crap in here lately (and some acknowledgement of reality) but this is the best yet!

The Thread of Arrogance rears its head. Is there no end to your talents?

How is that anything to do with the thread being arrogant? I might be being arrogant about my ability, but I’m certainly not saying United are anything other than crap currently.

Sadly though, you’ll never get the chance to demonstrate that ability to everyone in this thread! Never mind, the Utd platers must be distraught …

[easytiger123]

Forester1965 said:

When you've oodles of money and run through a succession of managers, most of whom are known to be competent, you have to ask if it's just unlucky that you've gone through a load of them or a problem at your end?

Correct. And that's exactly why sacking ETH is either a) the wrong decision or b) only, possibly, the right decision if you clear out the most toxic of the culprits in the dressing room at the same time. Which is hard because nobody else wants them.

[simon800]

Forester1965 said:

When you've oodles of money and run through a succession of managers, most of whom are known to be competent, you have to ask if it's just unlucky that you've gone through a load of them or a problem at your end?

The problem has been choosing managers badly. None of the managers we've appointed who failed here have gone on to achieve much (if anything) since leaving, and it was clear several we appointed were the wrong appointment.

If we'd burned through say Ancelotti, Simeone, Zidane, Emery - then I'd say you're onto something.

[Challo]

simon800 said:

Challo said:

I agree with your point about Klopp, but my point is that we have managed to ruin Moyes, LVG, Jose, OGS and now ETH.

This is a really terrible take.

We ruined Moyes, LVG, Jose, OGS and ETH? Really?

Moyes was a mid table guy who got the job based on his Scottishness. Should never have been here. Went on to get sacked from 3 next jobs, took Sunderland down etc.

LVG had been out of club football for some time, it was always a gamble. Turns out his arrogant Dutch approach didn't suit the club (sounds familiar, hmmm).

Jose was a busted flush when he came here, he left Chelsea in a relegation battle. Was at Chelsea, turned toxic, got sacked. Came here, turned toxic, got sacked. Went to Spurs, turned toxic, got sacked. Went to Roma, turned toxic, got sacked. See a common denominator here? Hint, it's not us.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's managerial achievements prior to Man Utd were getting Cardiff relegated. He hasn't had a job since.

Ten Hag won a farmers league a couple of times, same thing De Boer achieved (the one who got sacked by Palace after 0 wins 0 goals in 4 games). That aside his greatest achievement was bottling a Champions League semi final to the champions of bottle jobs half a decade ago.

We've made bad appointments, simple as. None of these guys were good enough, hence none of them have gone on to manage any other top clubs since - I hardly see Bayern, Madrid and Barca queuing up to get Moyes and Solksjaer in....

Arguably Ten Hag was worth a punt - it simply hasn't worked, we should have got rid in October when it was obvious where this was heading.

Challo said:

EtH would be a manager we would be looking at if he was still at Ajax.

He's not though. He's here, has been given carte blanche in the transfer market, has signed a load of st players that need replacing and he can't manage his way out of a wet paper bag. Tactics rubbish, results rubbish, style of play rubbish, signings rubbish - what else can he be judged on?

Edited by simon800 on Monday 22 April 08:07

Well it also shows it is 'US' as we as the club have spent a decade making terrible appointments, terrible signings and having no direction with regards to on the pitch. All the club cared about was money and how to make it, and how much can the glazers take out as dividends.

Sacking ETH in October would have been another knee jerk reaction, and we would have churned through another manager for short term game. The takeover hadn't even been finalised then, so we would have signed another manage chosen by Glazers and Murtough. ETH deserved the right to get to the end of the season with this season and live and die by the results.

The performances have been shocking at times, and results haven't been good either. For a club of our size that is not good enough and based on that alone I can see him being sacked. I do think there is lots of mitigating factors this season, and its a been a st show of injuries meaning we have played a different back 4 in 40 games this season.

Could ETH perform better with the right structure behind him, and newer players? Maybe? Would we benefit with a new manager maybe? Reports of Tuchel being touted now as well.

All we know is that Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox and SJR will need to put a plan in place in how they want the team to play and perform, and then decide who is the best manager that will deliver that plan.

What we do know is that the injury issue needs to be fixed, and there are several players at the club that is past it and need to be moved on. The issue will be who will buy them, and could we as a club afford to cut them loose and still afford to buy new ones.

[simon800]

Challo said:

.....the club have spent a decade making terrible appointments, terrible signings and having no direction with regards to on the pitch. All the club cared about was money and how to make it, and how much can the glazers take out as dividends.

agree 100%

Challo said:

Sacking ETH in October would have been another knee jerk reaction, and we would have churned through another manager for short term game. The takeover hadn't even been finalised then, so we would have signed another manage chosen by Glazers and Murtough. ETH deserved the right to get to the end of the season with this season and live and die by the results.

I'm not sure I agree, we've kept him and wasted an entire season. It was obvious as far back as October what way this season was heading. I'd rather have taken the hit and not wasted an entire season, rather than waste an entire season just so we can say "well we weren't knee jerk". If I'm driving somewhere and heading the wrong direction I wouldn't just keep driving the wrong direction to save myself from turning around....

Challo said:

Could ETH perform better with the right structure behind him, and newer players?

He's already got 17 new players. How many does he need to be able to perform well and comfortably beat teams like Coventry, Newport, Brentford, Fulham etc?

Unless the new structure are choosing the tactics, motivating the players, running training and doing the coaching I don't see what changes under Ten Hag and new ownership.

Challo said:

What we do know is that the injury issue needs to be fixed, and there are several players at the club that is past it and need to be moved on. The issue will be who will buy them, and could we as a club afford to cut them loose and still afford to buy new ones.

Agree 100% too. But also think it's an incredible coincidence that all these players who weren't injury prone before Ten Hag are suddenly injury prone now. Do you think it's likely Ten Hag stays and we suddenly go a whole season with no injuries?

I also remain highly sceptical that injuries are an excuse for our underperformance. Newcastle just beat Spurs 4-0, whilst missing;

Pope

Trippier
Lascelles
Botman
Targett

Tonali
Joelinton
Miley

Willock
Almiron
Wilson

Just to confirm that's who they were missing, not their starting lineup that day.

[CLK-GTR]

If/when we sack ETH, we will give the new manager a couple hundred million and a couple of years to get 'his' team in place before we end up right back here again. Until the club structure is sorted we need continuity in the manager because the manager is not the problem.