The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)

[Abc321]

Thank you both! Yes very much not optimistic on the football side of things. Will be there pretty early so will try the Salford Quays. Thank you again

[Gone a bit AMG]

Abc321 said:

Thank you both! Yes very much not optimistic on the football side of things. Will be there pretty early so will try the Salford Quays. Thank you again

Have a look at the JustPark app, I rent a driveway close to OT when I have to drive.

[G-wiz]

Who's more in disarray, us or Chelsea?

I could be biased, but I say it's Chelsea.

[G-wiz]

And forgot to add, after 32 games, we still have a negative goal difference.

It is boggling of the mind.

[LF5335]

CLK-GTR said:

LF5335 said:

Not sure your argument is working. You’re saying he knows we don’t have the players to fit his style, but he knows he can’t get rid of them and bring in the ones who can do it his way. So why doesn’t he change his tactics? I’d have thought a top coach / manager would do that. In fact, I’d have thought a pretty crappy one would be able to do that.

Also, he has brought in quite a few players over his time here. I’m not seeing how Antony, or Casemiro, or Malacia, or Mount, or Sabitzer, or Amrabat, or Eriksen, or Sancho, or Varane, or Onana, or Weghorst and so on are somehow making us a high press, high tempo team that would be quick on the transition.

No top coach changes their tactics to fit the team. Not one I can think of. They all go out and find players to fit, or they join a club with the players already there. Pep, Klopp, Mourinho, Ancelotti all the same. Managers like Allardyce do that when they need to make it tough for an opponent and escape relegation battles.

His recruitment has been average but a lot of those players were not his and I don't think it should be his job anyway. It isn't for other top managers.

He hasn’t found players that fit the style of play you’re saying he wants to play. Everybody knows we can’t just clear out the squad, as much as we’d like to. He knew that, he knows the players he has aren’t good enough to play his preferred style, but he keeps on insisting they do. That is not a sign of a good coach. How you’re arguing it is is mind boggling.

His recruitment has been shocking. Not average. It’s been piss poor.

[simon800]

For those who are really happy with the job Ten Hag is doing and put all of our on pitch failings down to the club structure rather than anything he is doing wrong, would you be happy to give Ten Hag a new contract?

He is in the final year of his contract heading into next year, and I expect he'd want to see some commitment from the club if he's to continue. How long would you be happy to extend him for/how long would you give it before you say this isn't working?

[57Ford]

We don’t need to extend or show any extra commitment because he’s contracted to do a job until next summer. That’s effectively his trial period so if he does ok next year in Ineos’ eyes, he will be approached to sign a new contract.
Pretty good timing really.

[CLK-GTR]

LF5335 said:

He hasn’t found players that fit the style of play you’re saying he wants to play. Everybody knows we can’t just clear out the squad, as much as we’d like to. He knew that, he knows the players he has aren’t good enough to play his preferred style, but he keeps on insisting they do. That is not a sign of a good coach. How you’re arguing it is is mind boggling.

His recruitment has been shocking. Not average. It’s been piss poor.

He has done the same as any top coach, he has come in to play a certain system and expected to buy players in to do it. As I say Pep was terrible until they went and bought him a whole new squad. Klopp took a few years to get his players in. ETH has tried to do the same and got it wrong, but I'm arguing the recruitment structure set him up to fail like it did all the other managers we have had and will do future managers unless we change things. If we change managers before we address that we will be back here again having the same discussions in 2 years time.

[simon800]

57Ford said:

We don’t need to extend or show any extra commitment because he’s contracted to do a job until next summer.

I'm not sure on that, there have been reports that he will walk away if not given commitment from INEOS. Obviously like all reports could be BS, guess we will never know.

[Wacky Racer]

CLK-GTR said:

As I say Pep was terrible until they went and bought him a whole new squad. .

Who are "they" and what period are you talking about?

[57Ford]

What does that commitment look like?

Here’s £150M for you to spend on whoever you fancy this summer Erik?
That’s not going to happen because
A; There are new guys at the helm who probably don’t want to pursue past-it or plastic Galactico’s.
B; ETH track record in going it alone in the transfer market is akin to giving my little girl my credit card in Hamleys.
C; FFP - we’re potless

Here’s a new 4 year contract Erik?
Not going to happen either because
A; this season’s CL campaign
B; this season’s PL campaign

He needs to impress the new guys and earn any new contract. For my money he doesn’t necessarily need to win anything next season or even qualify for CL but he needs to prove he can manage consistently on a week by week basis. No severe trouncings, no sustained lack of performance. Then the talks could start in February 25.

[GTO-3R]

CLK-GTR said:

He has done the same as any top coach, he has come in to play a certain system and expected to buy players in to do it. As I say Pep was terrible until they went and bought him a whole new squad. Klopp took a few years to get his players in. ETH has tried to do the same and got it wrong, but I'm arguing the recruitment structure set him up to fail like it did all the other managers we have had and will do future managers unless we change things. If we change managers before we address that we will be back here again having the same discussions in 2 years time.

Exactly. Pep finished 4th with a previously title winning team in his first season and Klopp took years to get to the top. Whilst there are frustrations towards EtH this season, he needs time to get players in for how he wants to play and also how the club want to play in the future too.

I wrote a list the other day to a mate of players who I think can go and would NOT get in any other top 6 side:

AWB
Maguire
Varane
Lindelof
Malacia
Williams
Eriksen
Casemiro
Hannibal
Sancho
Pellistri
Van De Beek
Martial
Shoretire
Greenwood
Antony

Some might add McTominay and Rashford to that list too..

That's 16(!) players and shows just how far our squad has fallen. The manager can't be expected to compete with a squad like that.

[GTO-3R]

Doesn't matter what manager you bring in, even Pep or Klopp, they're not doing jack st with that squad so how can EtH...

[uk66fastback]

GTO-3R said:

CLK-GTR said:

He has done the same as any top coach, he has come in to play a certain system and expected to buy players in to do it. As I say Pep was terrible until they went and bought him a whole new squad. Klopp took a few years to get his players in. ETH has tried to do the same and got it wrong, but I'm arguing the recruitment structure set him up to fail like it did all the other managers we have had and will do future managers unless we change things. If we change managers before we address that we will be back here again having the same discussions in 2 years time.

Exactly. Pep finished 4th with a previously title winning team in his first season and Klopp took years to get to the top. Whilst there are frustrations towards EtH this season, he needs time to get players in for how he wants to play and also how the club want to play in the future too.

I wrote a list the other day to a mate of players who I think can go and would NOT get in any other top 6 side:

AWB
Maguire
Varane
Lindelof
Malacia
Williams
Eriksen
Casemiro
Hannibal
Sancho
Pellistri
Van De Beek
Martial
Shoretire
Greenwood
Antony

Some might add McTominay and Rashford to that list too..

That's 16(!) players and shows just how far our squad has fallen. The manager can't be expected to compete with a squad like that.

You forgot the 'keeper - or are you thinking he would get in a top six side?

[simon800]

GTO-3R said:

Exactly. Pep finished 4th with a previously title winning team in his first season and Klopp took years to get to the top. Whilst there are frustrations towards EtH this season, he needs time to get players in for how he wants to play and also how the club want to play in the future too.

I wrote a list the other day to a mate of players who I think can go and would NOT get in any other top 6 side:

AWB
Maguire
Varane
Lindelof
Malacia
Williams
Eriksen
Casemiro
Hannibal
Sancho
Pellistri
Van De Beek
Martial
Shoretire
Greenwood
Antony

Some might add McTominay and Rashford to that list too..

That's 16(!) players and shows just how far our squad has fallen. The manager can't be expected to compete with a squad like that.

Not picking a fight at all, but 25% of that list is players the manager signed....

Which does make the argument "how can he be expected to compete with that squad" a bit tricky when he's bought a quarter of them?

There's also about half that list who have come 2nd and 3rd in the league being managed by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

So we are basically saying that a load of players Ole can get to 2nd and 3rd supplemented by a load of players the current manager has signed can't be expected to compete under the current manager.

[Muzzer79]

GTO-3R said:

I wrote a list the other day to a mate of players who I think can go and would NOT get in any other top 6 side:

AWB
Maguire
Varane
Lindelof
Malacia
Williams
Eriksen
Casemiro
Hannibal
Sancho
Pellistri
Van De Beek
Martial
Shoretire
Greenwood
Antony

Some might add McTominay and Rashford to that list too..

That's 16(!) players and shows just how far our squad has fallen. The manager can't be expected to compete with a squad like that.

You think that the following wouldn't waltz into the Villa, Tottenham or Newcastle sides?

Greenwood
Sancho
Casemiro
Varane



These are top players. Greenwood's issues are not pitch-related. The others, well they were doing pretty well before they entered the red twilight zone so the common denominator isn't talent or lack thereof.

There's something deeply, culturally wrong at United. You could replace them all with the City squad and they'd still be out of the CL places IMO.

[GTO-3R]

simon800 said:

Not picking a fight at all, but 25% of that list is players the manager signed....

Which does make the argument "how can he be expected to compete with that squad" a bit tricky when he's bought a quarter of them?

There's also about half that list who have come 2nd and 3rd in the league being managed by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

So we are basically saying that a load of players Ole can get to 2nd and 3rd supplemented by a load of players the current manager has signed can't be expected to compete under the current manager.

As far as I can see, only Malacia, Casemiro & Antony are EtH's signings no? So 3 out of 16.

The argument that Ole did well with them is that they were players that suited his counter attack style more. Soon as they were asked to press, they all st the bed as they can't do it.

[GTO-3R]

Muzzer79 said:

You think that the following wouldn't waltz into the Villa, Tottenham or Newcastle sides?

Greenwood
Sancho
Casemiro
Varane



These are top players. Greenwood's issues are not pitch-related. The others, well they were doing pretty well before they entered the red twilight zone so the common denominator isn't talent or lack thereof.

There's something deeply, culturally wrong at United. You could replace them all with the City squad and they'd still be out of the CL places IMO.

Greenwood yes (and he's an outlier on the list really but he will be off) but the others, no. You think Varane can play in a high defensive line that Spurs and especially Villa play? No chance, he's too slow. Casemiro isn't mobile enough to play in either side either and Sancho is far far too lazy to play in either of them teams too.

[simon800]

GTO-3R said:

As far as I can see, only Malacia, Casemiro & Antony are EtH's signings no? So 3 out of 16.

+ Eriksen

Agree with above that Casemiro wouldn't trouble the starting XI for any top 6 teams, I actually think the Saudi league may be too fast paced for him

[AtomWhore]

uk66fastback said:

You forgot the 'keeper - or are you thinking he would get in a top six side?

I seen a stat on Onana today that put things into perspective...

He's faced over 500 shots at goal this season! Petr Cech faced less that 1200 in 11 years at Chelsea!?! Now as I am typing that it just doesn't sound right?!

But it is pretty obscene the amount of shots he's had to deal with not forgetting the changes in defence... 26 different back fours this season alone! I think any keeper would have struggled to come in the premiership and have to deal with that.

No doubt another 30 shots at goal again tonight