The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)

[LF5335]

uk66fastback said:

LF5335 said:

uk66fastback said:

LF5335 said:

I reckon I could both manage a team to beat United currently and also manage a United team to deliver better results.

I've read some crap in here lately (and some acknowledgement of reality) but this is the best yet!

The Thread of Arrogance rears its head. Is there no end to your talents?

How is that anything to do with the thread being arrogant? I might be being arrogant about my ability, but I’m certainly not saying United are anything other than crap currently.

Sadly though, you’ll never get the chance to demonstrate that ability to everyone in this thread! Never mind, the Utd platers must be distraught …

Oh no. I really thought I was going to get a phone call ahead of next season. The thing is it’s not difficult to organise a team to beat United. Coventry sat back and played tippy tappy football for an hour and didn’t reallly create much. After going 3 down they decided to attack and took United apart. They could have scored at least 6 in the following hour (including extra time)

[simon800]

They have a poll running on redcafe, I assume the 22% are mainly opposition fans;

[Challo]

simon800 said:

They have a poll running on redcafe, I assume the 22% are mainly opposition fans;

Lets go with the approach we bring in a new manager. Knowing that we need another squad overhaul, another load of money spent what would be the minimum for the first season?

Champions League Qualification?

Supporters will need to be patient, but many have a short term approach.

[simon800]

Challo said:

Lets go with the approach we bring in a new manager. Knowing that we need another squad overhaul, another load of money spent what would be the minimum for the first season?

Champions League Qualification?

This is the starting point to improve on;

Games - 45
Wins - 21
Draws- 7
Losses - 17
Goals - 76
Goals against - 74

My expectation for a new manager for next season would be;

Top 5 finish
Run in a cup
Discernible style of play
Sell some of Ten Hag's dross
Not having the most 3 goals against since the 1960's
Not having the most league losses since the 1980's
Being able to score more than a newly promoted side

I don't think it's that big an ask, I can barely imagine any manager in the world would do worse than Ten Hag this season so improving on it would be easy.

[Challo]

simon800 said:

Challo said:

Lets go with the approach we bring in a new manager. Knowing that we need another squad overhaul, another load of money spent what would be the minimum for the first season?

Champions League Qualification?

This is the starting point to improve on;

Games - 45
Wins - 21
Draws- 7
Losses - 17
Goals - 76
Goals against - 74

My expectation for a new manager for next season would be;

Top 5 finish
Run in a cup
Discernible style of play
Sell some of Ten Hag's dross
Not having the most 3 goals against since the 1960's
Not having the most league losses since the 1980's
Being able to score more than a newly promoted side

I don't think it's that big an ask, I can barely imagine any manager in the world would do worse than Ten Hag this season so improving on it would be easy.

Lets hope that happens and we dont hound them out if they dont start well.

[bobski1]

My 2 cents into this is that I am not sure ETH is the right man but I am not sure who to replace him with. For the most part managers with potential even though the plays in the team at the start you can see an uplift and a defined style and slowly the players who don't need the standard are sold. The style is unclear, the players seem confused and not consistent. His signings haven't exactly lit the world on fire and we've made such a bad job of trying to get rid of the players because their attitudes and quality is well known.

Agree with others in that we need to work on the rest of the club to really give the new manager a chance to have success and would that person really have a chance next season given how well organised the other teams around us are, I'd say no.

[57Ford]

My view, after calming down a bit, is that he’s not the right man but it’s probably not a good idea to bring someone else in until the new structure is ready because once it is, we might have a bit more to spend on the new manager’s additions and also might attract a better quality of manager rather than just jumping now for whoever is available.

[Forester1965]

57Ford said:

My view, after calming down a bit, is that he’s not the right man but it’s probably not a good idea to bring someone else in until the new structure is ready because once it is, we might have a bit more to spend on the new manager’s additions and also might attract a better quality of manager rather than just jumping now for whoever is available.

And what do we say to the current manager when he's chosen the players he wants to let go/bring in for the new season? "Sorry mate, you're only here till we get our st together than you're out on your ear"? Or we let them buy even more overpriced poor performing tat tying us to millions in wages for years to come?

[57Ford]

We say either yes or no, based on whether whether or not his requests coincide with the views of the new technical director etc.
He can’t be allowed to carry on making the decisions alone now there’s others to assist.

[Forester1965]

If the technical team don't know which manager they're buying the players for, how do they know those players will fit into the new manager's system? How will you persuade top players to come to the club if they don't know who they're going to play under (or worse, that they do know it'll be ETH!)?

[bstb3]

Forester1965 said:

If the technical team don't know which manager they're buying the players for, how do they know those players will fit into the new manager's system? How will you persuade top players to come to the club if they don't know who they're going to play under (or worse, that they do know it'll be ETH!)?

I got the impression that going forward the idea is it's not the manager that sets the style of play, but they are more brought in to coach the way of playing the club structure wants. I'm sure Ratcliffe or someone had said something along those lines. On that basis they should be buying to that, irrespective of if ETH / anyone else is in place.

I do agree though the players would want to know who the manager is / will be and that I imagine can be an issue this summer unless things are resolved one way or another.

[CLK-GTR]

Forester1965 said:

If the technical team don't know which manager they're buying the players for, how do they know those players will fit into the new manager's system? How will you persuade top players to come to the club if they don't know who they're going to play under (or worse, that they do know it'll be ETH!)?

You've got it the wrong way round. The football directorship sets the system, the question should be can the manager fit into the system.

Chasing that outdated Ferguson model is why we are still here 11 years later.

[Forester1965]

CLK-GTR said:

You've got it the wrong way round. The football directorship sets the system, the question should be can the manager fit into the system.

Ultimately you still have a 'first team coach' who needs to be able to fit players into their own tactics and style of play. If they haven't the skills to do it with a current squad of expensively assembled players, I don't see how they'll be any better with another group?

The argument for delaying the appointment of a new coach is an acceptance of the status quo until he's replaced at an undetermined point in the future. Any incoming coach will have to work under the new system. Can't really see any upside to keeping someone on-board who you know is not able to get a tune out of his squad and is unlikely to going forward. It's like staying with a girlfriend because she does all the cooking despite the fact you hate her food.

[Challo]

bstb3 said:

Forester1965 said:

If the technical team don't know which manager they're buying the players for, how do they know those players will fit into the new manager's system? How will you persuade top players to come to the club if they don't know who they're going to play under (or worse, that they do know it'll be ETH!)?

I got the impression that going forward the idea is it's not the manager that sets the style of play, but they are more brought in to coach the way of playing the club structure wants. I'm sure Ratcliffe or someone had said something along those lines. On that basis they should be buying to that, irrespective of if ETH / anyone else is in place.

I do agree though the players would want to know who the manager is / will be and that I imagine can be an issue this summer unless things are resolved one way or another.

Thats my idea as well. Brighton is a good example of how it could work. The club and DOF decide the style of play they want to play, and the manager is chosen who best could implement that style. That then means from a recruitment perspective you can streamline the type of players you need to buy, and who you need to scout to be the next player on that production line.

If the manager goes like Potter, DeZerbi can come in hit the ground running, players can leave but you have a ready made replacement to come in.

United are the best example of how not to do it. Moyes, to LVG, to Jose, to OGS to ETH. All have different styles, want different types of players and now you have an unbalanced squad of over paid players who can only play a certain way and we can't get rid of them.

Also knowing the style you want to play means you can get the youth teams also implementing that structure so the jump into the 1st team is less of an issue.

I dont really see how not knowing who the manager is would be an issue recruiting players. Given the fact managers chop and change all the time

[57Ford]

But when you’re skint, it might be better to stick with her for a while rather than immediately commit to a new one who only wants to cook vegan food. Tasty for a while but not necessarily in tune with your long term preference.

[dickymint]

simon800 said:

Challo said:

Lets go with the approach we bring in a new manager. Knowing that we need another squad overhaul, another load of money spent what would be the minimum for the first season?

Champions League Qualification?

This is the starting point to improve on;

Games - 45
Wins - 21
Draws- 7
Losses - 17
Goals - 76
Goals against - 74

My expectation for a new manager for next season would be;

Top 5 finish
Run in a cup
Discernible style of play
Sell some of Ten Hag's dross
Not having the most 3 goals against since the 1960's
Not having the most league losses since the 1980's
Being able to score more than a newly promoted side

I don't think it's that big an ask, I can barely imagine any manager in the world would do worse than Ten Hag this season so improving on it would be easy.

Ten Hag could (and will if he stays) achieve all of that

[jgrewal]

Never has a semi final cup win to reach a FA cup final felt like a defeat. This team is beyond a joke and ETH will pay with his job. Some these players can do one aswell. Ratcliffe running the London marathon in 4.5 hours and coming to watch that crap after he will 100% act this summer.

[dickymint]

57Ford said:

But when you’re skint, it might be better to stick with her for a while rather than immediately commit to a new one who only wants to cook vegan food. Tasty for a while but not necessarily in tune with your long term preference.

Strength in depth is required here with subs on the bench

[CLK-GTR]

Forester1965 said:

Ultimately you still have a 'first team coach' who needs to be able to fit players into their own tactics and style of play. If they haven't the skills to do it with a current squad of expensively assembled players, I don't see how they'll be any better with another group?

The argument for delaying the appointment of a new coach is an acceptance of the status quo until he's replaced at an undetermined point in the future. Any incoming coach will have to work under the new system. Can't really see any upside to keeping someone on-board who you know is not able to get a tune out of his squad and is unlikely to going forward. It's like staying with a girlfriend because she does all the cooking despite the fact you hate her food.

Using your analogy, we're buying her a jar of strawberry jam, a pack of chicken thighs and a box of cereal and expecting her to make a meal. You could have Gordon Ramsay under the apron and not know it. If you want to make a recipe you need to buy the ingredients for that recipe first. Get that right and you don't need Michelin stars to make a good meal.

Sacking Ten Hag now would be a horrible move because it will mask the real issues within the club.

[simon800]

CLK-GTR said:

Using your analogy, we're buying her a jar of strawberry jam, a pack of chicken thighs and a box of cereal and expecting her to make a meal. .

In all fairness cornflake chicken is fantastic. The strawberry jam does present a challenge in that context though.