The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)
Discussion
Gone a bit AMG said:
I’m in as well. He has also made it clear he wants us to be the fastest transition team in the league. You don’t manage an Ajax team into the champions league semis and suddenly become incompetent. Look at where Ajax are now. I patient enough to see him have another year. Despite sharing everyones frustrations with form.
Fair play for your patience, I just can't fathom how a cup run half a decade ago gives faith when we've seen the shambles of a manager he is first hand in his 2 years here since. Ironically, said cup run ended with his team somehow surrendering a comfortable 3 goal lead to crash out. That sounds familiar for some reason....
Would you take Rudi Garcia? He reached a CL semi final in 2020.
simon800 said:
Gone a bit AMG said:
I’m in as well. He has also made it clear he wants us to be the fastest transition team in the league. You don’t manage an Ajax team into the champions league semis and suddenly become incompetent. Look at where Ajax are now. I patient enough to see him have another year. Despite sharing everyones frustrations with form.
Fair play for your patience, I just can't fathom how a cup run half a decade ago gives faith when we've seen the shambles of a manager he is first hand in his 2 years here since. Ironically, said cup run ended with his team somehow surrendering a comfortable 3 goal lead to crash out. That sounds familiar for some reason....
Would you take Rudi Garcia? He reached a CL semi final in 2020.
Yes we had some big lows in that season with some of the performances and results in certain games but his 1st season was a success.
simon800 said:
Gone a bit AMG said:
I’m in as well. He has also made it clear he wants us to be the fastest transition team in the league. You don’t manage an Ajax team into the champions league semis and suddenly become incompetent. Look at where Ajax are now. I patient enough to see him have another year. Despite sharing everyones frustrations with form.
Fair play for your patience, I just can't fathom how a cup run half a decade ago gives faith when we've seen the shambles of a manager he is first hand in his 2 years here since. Ironically, said cup run ended with his team somehow surrendering a comfortable 3 goal lead to crash out. That sounds familiar for some reason....
Would you take Rudi Garcia? He reached a CL semi final in 2020.
And no mate I wouldn’t take Rudi Garcia I just support who is whoever in the dug out because that’s how I am. I had a fabulous weekend and will have another one in a month. Win or lose. That’s what football is about to me. We all chose to follow in different ways but I do thick weekly match going fans think differently. I certainly do! But I am officially bonkers.
Having watched us burn through managers at the first sign of trouble, rinse and repeat I doubt Radcliffe is stupid enough to do the same. Every youngster we’ve got around the squad has improved, he’s got a role for McT no one else saw. I’m as unhappy with our league position as anyone I just think he should get more time.
Every other clubs fans think a cup is huge deal. Building a team to take on City takes years. I do not want another immediate reset and I don’t think there’ll be. If he struggling at Christmas then that’s the time with a replacement lined up to slot in with the new structure.
He won’t get final say on transfers this summer so I’d rather he stayed and get a fully fit refreshed squad.
I don't pay much attention to winning the Dutch League. Even Steve McLaren managed it and he's sucked in English leagues.
If we'd seen progression in yr 2 I'd be more open minded, but the team looks less cohesive now than it did when he took over, the signings haven't worked out and the results are abysmal for the resources available. Another year of this just sounds depressing.
If we'd seen progression in yr 2 I'd be more open minded, but the team looks less cohesive now than it did when he took over, the signings haven't worked out and the results are abysmal for the resources available. Another year of this just sounds depressing.
The team has got very much worse this year. Performances and results have been absolutely shocking. The pro-ETH argument has to put that down to luck, rather than a lack of ability.
Ultimately, the most objective measures - signings, appearance of tactics, subs- all tell strongly against the idea that ETH knows what he is doing. The substitutions are wildly incompetent, and I find it hard to see any evidence of progress.
Ultimately, the most objective measures - signings, appearance of tactics, subs- all tell strongly against the idea that ETH knows what he is doing. The substitutions are wildly incompetent, and I find it hard to see any evidence of progress.
CLK-GTR said:
Same system as all the top coaches. High defensive line (only one of our defenders can play this way) and inverted fullbacks (try that with Wan Bissaka), aggressive pressing (Rashford 
) to recover possession, fast passing (never happening with the likes of McTominay) into forward players (we have only one, a 21 year old kid).
We have all different players who fit all different styles. No coach can set a system because we don't have a squad of players who can all play one way.
If it’s the same system then why have none of the top coaches we’ve had previously been able to succeed either?) to recover possession, fast passing (never happening with the likes of McTominay) into forward players (we have only one, a 21 year old kid). We have all different players who fit all different styles. No coach can set a system because we don't have a squad of players who can all play one way.
If you’re a top manager then one of two things happens.
1. You realise your squad (or at least most of it) isn’t up to what you want to do. You sell those incapable of to mad you buy those capable of it.
2. You accept that you can’t sell most of your squad, because the owners are tw*ts, so you adjust your tactics to suit the strengths of your squad rather than playing to their weaknesses.
3. You don’t take the job, due to either / both of point a 1 & 2.
Challo said:
So no credit for his first season as manager? 3rd in the league, carabao cup and FA cup finalist?
Yes we had some big lows in that season with some of the performances and results in certain games but his 1st season was a success.
Only City and Arsenal put on a performance last year, we were fighting for 3rd & 4th with Newcastle all season while Liverpool Spurs, Chelsea were shocking. Despite that Liverpool found some form at the end of the season and it was squeaky bum time whether we’d make it or into the CL spots. Yes we had some big lows in that season with some of the performances and results in certain games but his 1st season was a success.
We lost the FA Cup final after 0.2 seconds or whatever it was. Carabao was nice, but hardly the sort of trophy to crow about. Everything fell apart on 13/04/2023 45 minutes into the Sevilla match and hasn’t recovered since.
LF5335 said:
If it’s the same system then why have none of the top coaches we’ve had previously been able to succeed either?
If you’re a top manager then one of two things happens.
1. You realise your squad (or at least most of it) isn’t up to what you want to do. You sell those incapable of to mad you buy those capable of it.
2. You accept that you can’t sell most of your squad, because the owners are tw*ts, so you adjust your tactics to suit the strengths of your squad rather than playing to their weaknesses.
3. You don’t take the job, due to either / both of point a 1 & 2.
It doesn't work because we don't have the players for it, that's the point. We don't have a set of players for any particular system.If you’re a top manager then one of two things happens.
1. You realise your squad (or at least most of it) isn’t up to what you want to do. You sell those incapable of to mad you buy those capable of it.
2. You accept that you can’t sell most of your squad, because the owners are tw*ts, so you adjust your tactics to suit the strengths of your squad rather than playing to their weaknesses.
3. You don’t take the job, due to either / both of point a 1 & 2.
In modern football option 1 is the only option, a dud first season and over a billion quid since for Pep attests to that. Or Klopps first years at Liverpool. Option 2 isn't an option if you want to be anything more than a mid table nuisance. Margins are too fine for pragmatism to succeed.
CLK-GTR said:
LF5335 said:
If it’s the same system then why have none of the top coaches we’ve had previously been able to succeed either?
If you’re a top manager then one of two things happens.
1. You realise your squad (or at least most of it) isn’t up to what you want to do. You sell those incapable of to mad you buy those capable of it.
2. You accept that you can’t sell most of your squad, because the owners are tw*ts, so you adjust your tactics to suit the strengths of your squad rather than playing to their weaknesses.
3. You don’t take the job, due to either / both of point a 1 & 2.
It doesn't work because we don't have the players for it, that's the point. We don't have a set of players for any particular system.If you’re a top manager then one of two things happens.
1. You realise your squad (or at least most of it) isn’t up to what you want to do. You sell those incapable of to mad you buy those capable of it.
2. You accept that you can’t sell most of your squad, because the owners are tw*ts, so you adjust your tactics to suit the strengths of your squad rather than playing to their weaknesses.
3. You don’t take the job, due to either / both of point a 1 & 2.
In modern football option 1 is the only option, a dud first season and over a billion quid since for Pep attests to that. Or Klopps first years at Liverpool. Option 2 isn't an option if you want to be anything more than a mid table nuisance. Margins are too fine for pragmatism to succeed.
Also, he has brought in quite a few players over his time here. I’m not seeing how Antony, or Casemiro, or Malacia, or Mount, or Sabitzer, or Amrabat, or Eriksen, or Sancho, or Varane, or Onana, or Weghorst and so on are somehow making us a high press, high tempo team that would be quick on the transition.
LF5335 said:
CLK-GTR said:
LF5335 said:
If it’s the same system then why have none of the top coaches we’ve had previously been able to succeed either?
If you’re a top manager then one of two things happens.
1. You realise your squad (or at least most of it) isn’t up to what you want to do. You sell those incapable of to mad you buy those capable of it.
2. You accept that you can’t sell most of your squad, because the owners are tw*ts, so you adjust your tactics to suit the strengths of your squad rather than playing to their weaknesses.
3. You don’t take the job, due to either / both of point a 1 & 2.
It doesn't work because we don't have the players for it, that's the point. We don't have a set of players for any particular system.If you’re a top manager then one of two things happens.
1. You realise your squad (or at least most of it) isn’t up to what you want to do. You sell those incapable of to mad you buy those capable of it.
2. You accept that you can’t sell most of your squad, because the owners are tw*ts, so you adjust your tactics to suit the strengths of your squad rather than playing to their weaknesses.
3. You don’t take the job, due to either / both of point a 1 & 2.
In modern football option 1 is the only option, a dud first season and over a billion quid since for Pep attests to that. Or Klopps first years at Liverpool. Option 2 isn't an option if you want to be anything more than a mid table nuisance. Margins are too fine for pragmatism to succeed.
Also, he has brought in quite a few players over his time here. I’m not seeing how Antony, or Casemiro, or Malacia, or Mount, or Sabitzer, or Amrabat, or Eriksen, or Sancho, or Varane, or Onana, or Weghorst and so on are somehow making us a high press, high tempo team that would be quick on the transition.
Weghorst / Sabitzer / Amrabat - Short term loans. I actually think Weghorst and Sabitzer did a job last year and covered for gaps in the squad.
Eriksen / Casemiro - Worked last year, gave us control. Age has caught up and failed this year
Malacia - Young, mobile, good back up to Shaw. Was working last year, shame he suffered those bad knee injuries.
Mount - Who knows how he would fit in. But in theory he is mobile, adds control and retain the ball, excellent in a high press.
Onana - Bought to play behind a high line
Antony - He is the odd one out.
LF5335 said:
Not sure your argument is working. You’re saying he knows we don’t have the players to fit his style, but he knows he can’t get rid of them and bring in the ones who can do it his way. So why doesn’t he change his tactics? I’d have thought a top coach / manager would do that. In fact, I’d have thought a pretty crappy one would be able to do that.
Also, he has brought in quite a few players over his time here. I’m not seeing how Antony, or Casemiro, or Malacia, or Mount, or Sabitzer, or Amrabat, or Eriksen, or Sancho, or Varane, or Onana, or Weghorst and so on are somehow making us a high press, high tempo team that would be quick on the transition.
No top coach changes their tactics to fit the team. Not one I can think of. They all go out and find players to fit, or they join a club with the players already there. Pep, Klopp, Mourinho, Ancelotti all the same. Managers like Allardyce do that when they need to make it tough for an opponent and escape relegation battles.Also, he has brought in quite a few players over his time here. I’m not seeing how Antony, or Casemiro, or Malacia, or Mount, or Sabitzer, or Amrabat, or Eriksen, or Sancho, or Varane, or Onana, or Weghorst and so on are somehow making us a high press, high tempo team that would be quick on the transition.
His recruitment has been average but a lot of those players were not his and I don't think it should be his job anyway. It isn't for other top managers.
Challo said:
So no credit for his first season as manager? 3rd in the league, carabao cup and FA cup finalist?
Yes we had some big lows in that season with some of the performances and results in certain games but his 1st season was a success.
The end result of last season was fantastic - of that there is no doubt. Yes we had some big lows in that season with some of the performances and results in certain games but his 1st season was a success.
The road to getting there was paved with a fair bit of fortune (cup run of Villa/Burnley/Charlton home, then Forest, a league with the most single goal victories by any team, Spurs/Chelsea/Pool all having an off year) along with a fair few mishaps (7-0 defeat to Liverpool, disaster vs Sevilla, losing every single away match vs a big team in the league).
We also can't forget that in his first season as manager he splurged hundreds of millions on players that need replacing already - a point which I think you are beginning to acknowledge.
I don't buy into the idea that last season was such an incredible unprecedented success that a free pass should be handed out for the one that follows - the guy took a squad that had finished 2nd/3rd quite a few times, spent a s
t load and finished 3rd.If we'd won the quadruple last season then I am sure this season would be more palatable.
Not a single person came into this season thinking a finish between 6th - 9th would be acceptable, or that coming bottom of a Champions League group with Galatasary and Copenhagen would be acceptable.
We are at a point now where Man Utd beating 2 promoted clubs at Old Trafford in our next two games, playing attacking football, conceding less than 20 shots and looking like a coherent team would be MORE of a surprise than if the opposite happened. I don't think that's hyperbole either.
CLK-GTR said:
His recruitment has been average but a lot of those players were not his and I don't think it should be his job anyway. It isn't for other top managers.
He is on the record saying he demanded complete control over recruitment or wouldn't take the job, so it's difficult to then excuse his poor recruitment and say it shouldn't be his job.....he literally demanded it to be his job, so he must be judged on it accordingly.Erik ten Hag says he wouldn't have taken Man United job without 'control' over transfers;
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/3762776...
"I set requirements in advance about how I want to work," he told Dutch outlet Trouw.
"If they aren't granted, I won't do it. I am ultimately responsible and accounted for the results. I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but control in transfers is a condition for me."
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