The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)

[Gone a bit AMG]

LF5335 said:

Look at all you non-match going fans stealing coverage and streaming illegally. Someone will be very upset with you.

Sadly that appears to be a little dig at me? Why? You can stop now as you’ve finally managed to ruin the thread completely for me and a few others who no longer bother posting at all with your inability to accept other’s opinions differ from yours. It’s now boring reading exactly the same inbetween and after every game and any positivity offered is mocked or belittled.

I’ll just keep going to OT and having a great time supporting United win or lose and you can keep arguing on the internet with strangers because you are always right.

To each their own. It clearly makes you happy so good luck to you.

[Challo]

simon800 said:

Frimley111R said:

True, but could that be said of every keeper in the Prem?

He's let in goals I'd expect a pub keeper to save. I accept he's made a lot of saves, but this weird narrative that he's turned into Lev Yashin since January seems nonsensical to me.

Have other keepers let as many trickle over the line as him? Honestly speaking I've not watched enough of every other teams games to know. But I've seen several Onana ones that I'd expect any elite keeper to keep out.

But you have said he is st. He is a good keeper, yes had issues initially at the start of the campaign and we can blame him for the horror show in the CL.

Statically he is a very good premier league keeper. Due to the way he plays he will also give up the odd horror goal. Allisson is regarding as one of the best in the prem, but he has dropped a few clangers trying to be clever.

According to the stats Onana has the 3rd best save percentage in the prem. Faced the second most shots in the premier league. Tied with Martnez / Ederson for clean sheets with 8.

Given the fact he is new to the league, has a constantly changing backline in front of him, and peppered with 30 shots a game I think he has done well this year.

[Challo]

Frimley111R said:

dickymint said:

Wheatley 3 fouls........i like him, nice and fiesty, good debut

Lol and he was only on for the last few minutes

Scored 2 for U18's vs City in the Cup on Tuesday, and then on Wednesday gets a premier league debut.

What a few days for the lad.

[LF5335]

Challo said:

But you have said he is st. He is a good keeper, yes had issues initially at the start of the campaign and we can blame him for the horror show in the CL.

Statically he is a very good premier league keeper. Due to the way he plays he will also give up the odd horror goal. Allisson is regarding as one of the best in the prem, but he has dropped a few clangers trying to be clever.

According to the stats Onana has the 3rd best save percentage in the prem. Faced the second most shots in the premier league. Tied with Martnez / Ederson for clean sheets with 8.

Given the fact he is new to the league, has a constantly changing backline in front of him, and peppered with 30 shots a game I think he has done well this year.

His performances have been poor. He is most definitely a weak link in the team. The defence are nervous of him. The opposition appear keen to take shots on that they possibly wouldn’t have considered with other teams. The 30 shots he faced a match are down to both an ever changing defence and him loving to dive over the ball or fall over in a 1 on 1.

He isn’t top class.

[Rusty Old-Banger]

Gone a bit AMG said:

LF5335 said:

Look at all you non-match going fans stealing coverage and streaming illegally. Someone will be very upset with you.

Sadly that appears to be a little dig at me? Why? You can stop now as you’ve finally managed to ruin the thread completely for me and a few others who no longer bother posting at all with your inability to accept other’s opinions differ from yours. It’s now boring reading exactly the same inbetween and after every game and any positivity offered is mocked or belittled.

I’ll just keep going to OT and having a great time supporting United win or lose and you can keep arguing on the internet with strangers because you are always right.

To each their own. It clearly makes you happy so good luck to you.

Ignore him. He has some decidedly unsavoury opinions on various things and he's not worth engaging with. Just move past his posts and don't feed him.

[CLK-GTR]

simon800 said:

He's let in goals I'd expect a pub keeper to save. I accept he's made a lot of saves, but this weird narrative that he's turned into Lev Yashin since January seems nonsensical to me.

Have other keepers let as many trickle over the line as him? Honestly speaking I've not watched enough of every other teams games to know. But I've seen several Onana ones that I'd expect any elite keeper to keep out.

You want to watch Allison and Ederson then. The days of keepers with cat like reflexes are long gone, the best keepers save exactly what you'd expect them to and little more but win you games with their distribution, as Onana very nearly did yesterday had Garnacho finished that chance.

[Challo]

LF5335 said:

Challo said:

But you have said he is st. He is a good keeper, yes had issues initially at the start of the campaign and we can blame him for the horror show in the CL.

Statically he is a very good premier league keeper. Due to the way he plays he will also give up the odd horror goal. Allisson is regarding as one of the best in the prem, but he has dropped a few clangers trying to be clever.

According to the stats Onana has the 3rd best save percentage in the prem. Faced the second most shots in the premier league. Tied with Martnez / Ederson for clean sheets with 8.

Given the fact he is new to the league, has a constantly changing backline in front of him, and peppered with 30 shots a game I think he has done well this year.

His performances have been poor. He is most definitely a weak link in the team. The defence are nervous of him. The opposition appear keen to take shots on that they possibly wouldn’t have considered with other teams. The 30 shots he faced a match are down to both an ever changing defence and him loving to dive over the ball or fall over in a 1 on 1.

He isn’t top class.

Weak link in the team when statically he is one of the better keepers in the league? Have you seen the rest of the team? I can think of a lot more issues that Onana currently.

I'm not stating he is top class, but he is a very good goal keeper and performing well in a poor team.

[franki68]

Challo said:

Scored 2 for U18's vs City in the Cup on Tuesday, and then on Wednesday gets a premier league debut.

What a few days for the lad.

They did the double the u18s , which is encouraging .

[LF5335]

Challo said:

Weak link in the team when statically he is one of the better keepers in the league? Have you seen the rest of the team? I can think of a lot more issues that Onana currently.

I'm not stating he is top class, but he is a very good goal keeper and performing well in a poor team.

The way I see it is that if the ball goes past him then chances are it’s a goal. A player elsewhere will always have someone behind them to have a chance to sweep up mistakes. For a keeper, they are the last man and any errors are usually costly. I don’t know how tough the saves are that he’s had to make vs other keepers and stats can always tell us what ever we want them to a large extent. My view is that opposition teams ar being given instructions around pressing the defence hard and taking on a shot whenever they can, rather than passing sideways or backwards to retain possession. Sheffield Utd yesterday pressed and hurried us all over the pitch, but fell apart when it came to shooting, so didn’t get many away. When they did get a shot on target they scored with half of them.

As did Coventry and Bournemouth in the two previous matches.

Edited by LF5335 on Thursday 25th April 12:49

[Sycamore]

LF5335 said:

The way I see it is that if the ball goes past him then chances are it’s a goal.

I may be due a parrot here

I'm no MU or Onana fan, but you're saying that if the ball goes past your goalkeeper, chances are it's a goal?

Professor?

[franki68]

I feel uncomfortable with Onana , I have no doubt teams are shooting on site as they are instructed to do so .I have never seen a keeper be so wrong footed so many times .
Ok some ridiculous deflections like on Saturday don’t help him but he is slow transferring his weight and has conceded so many goals where he can’t even dive for the ball due to this inability to shift his weight/balance .

[uk66fastback]

He's no better or worse than other keeper in diving and saving shots that are above knee height ... it's the low shots that do for him nine times out of ten, but players still insist on shooting higher than the tips of the grass. Do they not see what others see?

[Challo]

franki68 said:

I feel uncomfortable with Onana , I have no doubt teams are shooting on site as they are instructed to do so .I have never seen a keeper be so wrong footed so many times .
Ok some ridiculous deflections like on Saturday don’t help him but he is slow transferring his weight and has conceded so many goals where he can’t even dive for the ball due to this inability to shift his weight/balance .

There has been some articles that he has a unconventional technique, but the stats show he he is one of the best keepers in the prem this season. The guy has had 172 shots on target, and saved 123 of them (74%)

If you look at Ederson and Raya for comparison.

Ederson - Faced 74 shots on target / Saved 49 / Save % 69% (28 Games played)

Raya - Faced 61 shots on target / Saved 40 / Save % 67% (28 Games played)

Give the fact Onana has nearly faced triple the same shots on target Raya has, any slight error is going to be amplified into the narrative of he is a st keeper.

Another thing which goes against him is the fact he is a completely different profile to DeGea who was an amazing shot stopper and would pull out saves no other keeper could. On the flip side he also dropped regular clangers, was terrible on the ball and never came for crosses. Last year despite DeGea winning the golden gloves he only had a save % of 71%.

[G-wiz]

If Onana has a weakness with low shots, or with transferring his weight, or whatever, then someone needs to be spend time with him on the training pitch and get it sorted.

Pronto.

No cookies and custard until it's resolved.

[Challo]

G-wiz said:

If Onana has a weakness with low shots, or with transferring his weight, or whatever, then someone needs to be spend time with him on the training pitch and get it sorted.

Pronto.

No cookies and custard until it's resolved.

https://theathletic.com/4940987/2023/10/10/onana-andre-man-utd/

Someone already looked into it. It seems that Onana technique while different allows him to be a better goal keeper.

[simon800]

During my time of watching United I have been fortunate enough to see 3 x truly great goalkeepers. Schmeichel, Van Der Sar, De Gea (at his peak)

Onana is a million miles away from those.

We've also had some proper banter goalkeepers. Tim Howard, Fabian Barthez for example. Whatever the save % statistics tell people, my eyes tell me Onana belongs in this 2nd category, not the first one, for now.

If he learns to dive properly then he could improve, but he was bought as a finished article player with a finished article price tag. There have been several goals which wouldn't go down as complete howlers, but he's either dived over the ball, dived too late or dived the opposite direction to where the ball was going.

[dickymint]

simon800 said:

During my time of watching United I have been fortunate enough to see 3 x truly great goalkeepers. Schmeichel, Van Der Sar, De Gea (at his peak)

Onana is a million miles away from those.

We've also had some proper banter goalkeepers. Tim Howard, Fabian Barthez for example. Whatever the save % statistics tell people, my eyes tell me Onana belongs in this 2nd category, not the first one, for now.

If he learns to dive properly then he could improve, but he was bought as a finished article player with a finished article price tag. There have been several goals which wouldn't go down as complete howlers, but he's either dived over the ball, dived too late or dived the opposite direction to where the ball was going.

It would help if he could catch the ball......he can't.

[LF5335]

Sycamore said:

I may be due a parrot here

I'm no MU or Onana fan, but you're saying that if the ball goes past your goalkeeper, chances are it's a goal?

Professor?

Do you just pop in here because nobody cares at all about Wolves?

[Challo]

simon800 said:

During my time of watching United I have been fortunate enough to see 3 x truly great goalkeepers. Schmeichel, Van Der Sar, De Gea (at his peak)

Onana is a million miles away from those.

We've also had some proper banter goalkeepers. Tim Howard, Fabian Barthez for example. Whatever the save % statistics tell people, my eyes tell me Onana belongs in this 2nd category, not the first one, for now.

If he learns to dive properly then he could improve, but he was bought as a finished article player with a finished article price tag. There have been several goals which wouldn't go down as complete howlers, but he's either dived over the ball, dived too late or dived the opposite direction to where the ball was going.

I agree he has had a troubled season, but I think there will be a massive improvement next year. Another year in the prem, settled back 4 and he will come into his own.

So going by the article the work done at Ajax, and anaylsis from a former keeper is bks then. He just needs to learn to dive better?

[LF5335]

Challo said:

There has been some articles that he has a unconventional technique, but the stats show he he is one of the best keepers in the prem this season. The guy has had 172 shots on target, and saved 123 of them (74%)

If you look at Ederson and Raya for comparison.

Ederson - Faced 74 shots on target / Saved 49 / Save % 69% (28 Games played)

Raya - Faced 61 shots on target / Saved 40 / Save % 67% (28 Games played)

Give the fact Onana has nearly faced triple the same shots on target Raya has, any slight error is going to be amplified into the narrative of he is a st keeper.

Another thing which goes against him is the fact he is a completely different profile to DeGea who was an amazing shot stopper and would pull out saves no other keeper could. On the flip side he also dropped regular clangers, was terrible on the ball and never came for crosses. Last year despite DeGea winning the golden gloves he only had a save % of 71%.

That’s just a load of stats. More detail is required to see if there’s any substance to it.

Onana not saved 49 on target shots, that’s 49 goals. If 90% of those were within 2 feet of where he was standing compared to 10% being that close for Raya & Ederson then that changes it massively. The same applies in reverse. As does the speed of the shot and / or the proximity of the striker of the ball and so on.