Which WRX STI- Hawkeye VS Hatch VS 2010 Saloon?
Discussion
plenty said:
Also - interested in your comment about rear droop. The GC I’ve bought was set up for track by Chevron for sprinting. Rear ride height is lower than front. I set up my previous Imprezas with a little positive rake (rear higher than front) as I like soft suspension and as this helps with understeer on a compliant setup. I drive on bumpy country roads, no track.
I am planning to rip out the fat roll bars and the stiff PSS9s and fit OEM bars, struts and P1 springs which worked really well on my previous GCs without DCCD. Just wondering if this setup, which has positive take built in, might make my DCCD car trickier on the limit than my current setup.
You need to measure ride height as the distance from the centre of the wheel to the arch.I am planning to rip out the fat roll bars and the stiff PSS9s and fit OEM bars, struts and P1 springs which worked really well on my previous GCs without DCCD. Just wondering if this setup, which has positive take built in, might make my DCCD car trickier on the limit than my current setup.
One of the problems with the GC8 UK cars is they are more prone to understeer due to the viscous centre diff setup, to fix this you tend to use a stiffer rear ARB to try and change the basic balance. The problem with that for road use in particular is a stiffer rear bar reduces rear droop in roll, so you lose grip on the inside rear tyre, which gives you snap oversteer. Basic understeer is less of an issue on the DCCD cars, this allows you to run a softer rear ARB and not have the issue of droop limiting in roll.
Like all these things it's a compromise, what works on the road might be slow on track, so just tailor the car to what matters most to you. I've found on the Newage cars you tend to need a stiffer front bar that you would with a classic, because the extra weight and a stiffer chassis makes the front bar more critical in tuning the overall balance. If you do a lot of bumpy road work, you want soft ARB's, if where you drive is pretty smooth you can find the car works better with some stiffer ARB's. Often what feels fast is actually slower, its just the fact you are working harder that makes you think you are going quickly.
plenty said:
Thanks again. Will definitely have small (OEM 19/20) bars. My current ride height on PSS9s is 5mm lower at the rear versus front, whereas the setup I am planning is 6mm higher at the rear and your comment made me wonder if it might be trickier on the limit.
I ran 5mm more gap at the rear on my STi5 RA. You may find on your current setup there isnt enough droop at the rear to accommodate that. Simon knows what he is doing, he is limited by what kit you have.Some great info there. I would add that it depends what you are happy to live with if it is a daily driver.
A hatchback or later shape STi is going to be more refined and a nicer daily vehicle in general. I wouldn't really want to daily my hawkeye Spec C RA (although a standardish UK car wouod be better in this regard).
As said it depends how you drive the car but I have found that with coilovers and a bigger turbo (yes nore power makes breaking traction easier) 4 wheel drifts and getting the rear end moving is very easy after some practice and especially on track but is a different technique than used on a RWD car.
They are fantastic cars and really get under your skin.
A hatchback or later shape STi is going to be more refined and a nicer daily vehicle in general. I wouldn't really want to daily my hawkeye Spec C RA (although a standardish UK car wouod be better in this regard).
As said it depends how you drive the car but I have found that with coilovers and a bigger turbo (yes nore power makes breaking traction easier) 4 wheel drifts and getting the rear end moving is very easy after some practice and especially on track but is a different technique than used on a RWD car.
They are fantastic cars and really get under your skin.
Echo that. Get it bought.
Had loads of performance cars for me & the wife over the last 30 years.
Had 2005 UK STI for coming up to 7 years almost double the length of time anything else.
Browse the internet daily for potential replacements. Then I drive it & say "we are never selling this"
Had loads of performance cars for me & the wife over the last 30 years.
Had 2005 UK STI for coming up to 7 years almost double the length of time anything else.
Browse the internet daily for potential replacements. Then I drive it & say "we are never selling this"
Not a Diesel said:
Echo that. Get it bought.
Had loads of performance cars for me & the wife over the last 30 years.
Had 2005 UK STI for coming up to 7 years almost double the length of time anything else.
Browse the internet daily for potential replacements. Then I drive it & say "we are never selling this"
That certainly is reassuring Had loads of performance cars for me & the wife over the last 30 years.
Had 2005 UK STI for coming up to 7 years almost double the length of time anything else.
Browse the internet daily for potential replacements. Then I drive it & say "we are never selling this"
Morning all,
I'm pleased to say I got hold of a 2006 hawkeye.
Safe to say, never before have I driven a car that reflects exactly what I want in a car.
Sure I have had great fun with various Bmws and other bits, but this car really does feel incredible!
There is something magic about the drive train. It almost feels like it has rear steering of kinds!
The grip is phenomenal and turn is incredible.
The feel of the steering is probably one of my favourite things. They way it seamlessly glides over bad roads and curves through the corners. Sure its pretty bumpy, but by the same token the suspension and chasis feels so robust. When it recovers from a bump its done very quickly and is ready for the next one. Bmws I find try to keep on doing things (post bump) which give a more swaying feeling. Not sure how to describe but essentially it feels less connected but more luxurious.
Only slight downside is when you're approaching an apex of a corner and apply power it can push forward rather than into the corner (understeer) but I counter that by not really putting power then but post corner. At that point the car seems to somewhat crap itself into the next corner / straight.
Such a machine though, really confident inspiring!
Just wondering, does my 2006 have hydraulic steering?
Best
T
I'm pleased to say I got hold of a 2006 hawkeye.
Safe to say, never before have I driven a car that reflects exactly what I want in a car.
Sure I have had great fun with various Bmws and other bits, but this car really does feel incredible!
There is something magic about the drive train. It almost feels like it has rear steering of kinds!
The grip is phenomenal and turn is incredible.
The feel of the steering is probably one of my favourite things. They way it seamlessly glides over bad roads and curves through the corners. Sure its pretty bumpy, but by the same token the suspension and chasis feels so robust. When it recovers from a bump its done very quickly and is ready for the next one. Bmws I find try to keep on doing things (post bump) which give a more swaying feeling. Not sure how to describe but essentially it feels less connected but more luxurious.
Only slight downside is when you're approaching an apex of a corner and apply power it can push forward rather than into the corner (understeer) but I counter that by not really putting power then but post corner. At that point the car seems to somewhat crap itself into the next corner / straight.
Such a machine though, really confident inspiring!
Just wondering, does my 2006 have hydraulic steering?
Best
T
I assume you bought a 2.5L STi? They are great cars and any understeer can be altered using various mods or driving techniques. My Spec C type RA is very neutral into corners and power oversteers on exit when driven that way, I find tyre types and pressures have a big impact on that.
The road spec toyos it was wearing when I bought it really are a World away from the R888Rs it is wearing now.
The road spec toyos it was wearing when I bought it really are a World away from the R888Rs it is wearing now.
theog87 said:
Morning all,
I'm pleased to say I got hold of a 2006 hawkeye.
Safe to say, never before have I driven a car that reflects exactly what I want in a car.
Sure I have had great fun with various Bmws and other bits, but this car really does feel incredible!
There is something magic about the drive train. It almost feels like it has rear steering of kinds!
The grip is phenomenal and turn is incredible.
The feel of the steering is probably one of my favourite things. They way it seamlessly glides over bad roads and curves through the corners. Sure its pretty bumpy, but by the same token the suspension and chasis feels so robust. When it recovers from a bump its done very quickly and is ready for the next one. Bmws I find try to keep on doing things (post bump) which give a more swaying feeling. Not sure how to describe but essentially it feels less connected but more luxurious.
Only slight downside is when you're approaching an apex of a corner and apply power it can push forward rather than into the corner (understeer) but I counter that by not really putting power then but post corner. At that point the car seems to somewhat crap itself into the next corner / straight.
Such a machine though, really confident inspiring!
Just wondering, does my 2006 have hydraulic steering?
Best
T
Congratulations on your purchase I'm pleased to say I got hold of a 2006 hawkeye.
Safe to say, never before have I driven a car that reflects exactly what I want in a car.
Sure I have had great fun with various Bmws and other bits, but this car really does feel incredible!
There is something magic about the drive train. It almost feels like it has rear steering of kinds!
The grip is phenomenal and turn is incredible.
The feel of the steering is probably one of my favourite things. They way it seamlessly glides over bad roads and curves through the corners. Sure its pretty bumpy, but by the same token the suspension and chasis feels so robust. When it recovers from a bump its done very quickly and is ready for the next one. Bmws I find try to keep on doing things (post bump) which give a more swaying feeling. Not sure how to describe but essentially it feels less connected but more luxurious.
Only slight downside is when you're approaching an apex of a corner and apply power it can push forward rather than into the corner (understeer) but I counter that by not really putting power then but post corner. At that point the car seems to somewhat crap itself into the next corner / straight.
Such a machine though, really confident inspiring!
Just wondering, does my 2006 have hydraulic steering?
Best
T
In December 2019 I purchased a 2007 Hawkeye WRX - a fantastic car.
theog87 said:
Only slight downside is when you're approaching an apex of a corner and apply power it can push forward rather than into the corner (understeer) but I counter that by not really putting power then but post corner. At that point the car seems to somewhat crap itself into the next corner / straight.
Such a machine though, really confident inspiring!
Just wondering, does my 2006 have hydraulic steering?
T
Yes, hydraulic steering.Such a machine though, really confident inspiring!
Just wondering, does my 2006 have hydraulic steering?
T
These cars respond very well to trail braking. The rear is very planted and you don't have to worry about losing it. Carry as much speed into the corner as you dare, then brake later than you are used to, just as you hit the apex and even through the apex. The general rule of not braking and steering at the same time doesn't apply to Imprezas
This will help rotate the car and you can get on the throttle hard as the road straightens up, taking advantage of AWD traction to slingshot you out.Get it right and you may even experience a most satisfying four-wheel drift.
Elatino1 said:
I assume you bought a 2.5L STi? They are great cars and any understeer can be altered using various mods or driving techniques. My Spec C type RA is very neutral into corners and power oversteers on exit when driven that way, I find tyre types and pressures have a big impact on that.
The road spec toyos it was wearing when I bought it really are a World away from the R888Rs it is wearing now.
Yes got myself a WRX STIThe road spec toyos it was wearing when I bought it really are a World away from the R888Rs it is wearing now.
Just from looking online, seeing things about the 6 speed gearbox and other bits made me want to go for the STI
I find normally with cars, it's often best to go for a cheaper car (as a whole) but get the top model. That way you often get a plethora of nice bits and pieces.... brakes, gears, mod cons etc.
In response to the understeer, as suggested, I think I need to adjust my driving habits. I have been RWD for perhaps 5 years now (as main fun car at least), so I guess I need to adjust myself. To be honest, when it comes to flinging the car around, I think I will need to do a track day to build confidence in this arena before I get to confident on road. Perhaps I could play around with a large roundabout of kinds, normally safer than B road twists.
Tyres wise, very interesting point. Luckily all tyres have >5mm all round, so not sure I want to change them just yet. I belive I They are Toyos on front and Eagle F1s on back, but might be the other way round. Not sure.
Am I imaging things or is there more room in the back on the hawkeye in comparison to the blob?
theog87 said:
Yes got myself a WRX STI
Just from looking online, seeing things about the 6 speed gearbox and other bits made me want to go for the STI
I find normally with cars, it's often best to go for a cheaper car (as a whole) but get the top model. That way you often get a plethora of nice bits and pieces.... brakes, gears, mod cons etc.
In response to the understeer, as suggested, I think I need to adjust my driving habits. I have been RWD for perhaps 5 years now (as main fun car at least), so I guess I need to adjust myself. To be honest, when it comes to flinging the car around, I think I will need to do a track day to build confidence in this arena before I get to confident on road. Perhaps I could play around with a large roundabout of kinds, normally safer than B road twists.
Tyres wise, very interesting point. Luckily all tyres have >5mm all round, so not sure I want to change them just yet. I belive I They are Toyos on front and Eagle F1s on back, but might be the other way round. Not sure.
Am I imaging things or is there more room in the back on the hawkeye in comparison to the blob?
The steering wheel on the Hawkeye is 1660mm from the rear bulkhead.Just from looking online, seeing things about the 6 speed gearbox and other bits made me want to go for the STI
I find normally with cars, it's often best to go for a cheaper car (as a whole) but get the top model. That way you often get a plethora of nice bits and pieces.... brakes, gears, mod cons etc.
In response to the understeer, as suggested, I think I need to adjust my driving habits. I have been RWD for perhaps 5 years now (as main fun car at least), so I guess I need to adjust myself. To be honest, when it comes to flinging the car around, I think I will need to do a track day to build confidence in this arena before I get to confident on road. Perhaps I could play around with a large roundabout of kinds, normally safer than B road twists.
Tyres wise, very interesting point. Luckily all tyres have >5mm all round, so not sure I want to change them just yet. I belive I They are Toyos on front and Eagle F1s on back, but might be the other way round. Not sure.
Am I imaging things or is there more room in the back on the hawkeye in comparison to the blob?
The steering wheel on the Blobeye is 1502mm from the rear bulkhead.
So the same driver will have the front seat 158mm further forward for the same driving position, giving more rear legroom in the rear for the rear seat passenger. That of course means weight distribution of the driver is worse in the Hawkeye.
Handling wise, being patient with the throttle is important, 0.5s makes a difference, most people hit the throttle too soon and don't let the car rotate, this is in any car, but as an AWD car has front drive, it's more noticeable. As standard the front camber is less than the rear, just adding more front camber helps change the basic balance, with stock suspension this usually requires an extra set of camber bolts in the front strut mount.
If you have different tyres front/rear, you are screwing up the basic handling, don't do it. If you cant afford to buy a pair of tyres, put the best on the front. It's not just the grip that is the issue, the sidewall stiffness really counts on these cars, the car was designed with a very stiff sidewall tyre (Bridgestone RE070), so when replacing them use the highest sidewall stiffness tyres of the range you prefer.
jsf said:
theog87 said:
Yes got myself a WRX STI
Just from looking online, seeing things about the 6 speed gearbox and other bits made me want to go for the STI
I find normally with cars, it's often best to go for a cheaper car (as a whole) but get the top model. That way you often get a plethora of nice bits and pieces.... brakes, gears, mod cons etc.
In response to the understeer, as suggested, I think I need to adjust my driving habits. I have been RWD for perhaps 5 years now (as main fun car at least), so I guess I need to adjust myself. To be honest, when it comes to flinging the car around, I think I will need to do a track day to build confidence in this arena before I get to confident on road. Perhaps I could play around with a large roundabout of kinds, normally safer than B road twists.
Tyres wise, very interesting point. Luckily all tyres have >5mm all round, so not sure I want to change them just yet. I belive I They are Toyos on front and Eagle F1s on back, but might be the other way round. Not sure.
Am I imaging things or is there more room in the back on the hawkeye in comparison to the blob?
The steering wheel on the Hawkeye is 1660mm from the rear bulkhead.Just from looking online, seeing things about the 6 speed gearbox and other bits made me want to go for the STI
I find normally with cars, it's often best to go for a cheaper car (as a whole) but get the top model. That way you often get a plethora of nice bits and pieces.... brakes, gears, mod cons etc.
In response to the understeer, as suggested, I think I need to adjust my driving habits. I have been RWD for perhaps 5 years now (as main fun car at least), so I guess I need to adjust myself. To be honest, when it comes to flinging the car around, I think I will need to do a track day to build confidence in this arena before I get to confident on road. Perhaps I could play around with a large roundabout of kinds, normally safer than B road twists.
Tyres wise, very interesting point. Luckily all tyres have >5mm all round, so not sure I want to change them just yet. I belive I They are Toyos on front and Eagle F1s on back, but might be the other way round. Not sure.
Am I imaging things or is there more room in the back on the hawkeye in comparison to the blob?
The steering wheel on the Blobeye is 1502mm from the rear bulkhead.
So the same driver will have the front seat 158mm further forward for the same driving position, giving more rear legroom in the rear for the rear seat passenger. That of course means weight distribution of the driver is worse in the Hawkeye.
Handling wise, being patient with the throttle is important, 0.5s makes a difference, most people hit the throttle too soon and don't let the car rotate, this is in any car, but as an AWD car has front drive, it's more noticeable. As standard the front camber is less than the rear, just adding more front camber helps change the basic balance, with stock suspension this usually requires an extra set of camber bolts in the front strut mount.
If you have different tyres front/rear, you are screwing up the basic handling, don't do it. If you cant afford to buy a pair of tyres, put the best on the front. It's not just the grip that is the issue, the sidewall stiffness really counts on these cars, the car was designed with a very stiff sidewall tyre (Bridgestone RE070), so when replacing them use the highest sidewall stiffness tyres of the range you prefer.
Thanks for info regarding front tyres
These the only ones for the front or are others good?
Would increasing rim size improve this? Ideally I want to keep the originals.
theog87 said:
OK very interesting! Glad I got the hawkeye as the family like the space!
Thanks for info regarding front tyres
These the only ones for the front or are others good?
Would increasing rim size improve this? Ideally I want to keep the originals.
I don't understand your question on front tyres.Thanks for info regarding front tyres
These the only ones for the front or are others good?
Would increasing rim size improve this? Ideally I want to keep the originals.
I have always used the original wheel size of 17" x 8", i have original OEM and also some Speedline wheels, the Speedlines are genuine Group N wheels with ET48, OEM are ET53, so the speedlines widen the track 10mm. I wouldn't go any larger an offset than this as you are moving the contact patch relative to the steering geometry which has an effect on tyre feedback and self centre.
My car is JDM spec, so the tyres are wider 235/45x17, UK uses 225/45x17.
Lots of people use 18" wheels and lower profile tyres, i don't think that's a good move on the road, i didn't even use a bigger diameter wheel on sprints or Time Attack as the sidewall flex adds some benefits in the traction zones.
jsf said:
I don't understand your question on front tyres.
I have always used the original wheel size of 17" x 8", i have original OEM and also some Speedline wheels, the Speedlines are genuine Group N wheels with ET48, OEM are ET53, so the speedlines widen the track 10mm. I wouldn't go any larger an offset than this as you are moving the contact patch relative to the steering geometry which has an effect on tyre feedback and self centre.
My car is JDM spec, so the tyres are wider 235/45x17, UK uses 225/45x17.
Lots of people use 18" wheels and lower profile tyres, i don't think that's a good move on the road, i didn't even use a bigger diameter wheel on sprints or Time Attack as the sidewall flex adds some benefits in the traction zones.
I was thinking bigger rims, lower profile and harder tyre wall edge could help out, but I dont know much about these things tbh. I have always used the original wheel size of 17" x 8", i have original OEM and also some Speedline wheels, the Speedlines are genuine Group N wheels with ET48, OEM are ET53, so the speedlines widen the track 10mm. I wouldn't go any larger an offset than this as you are moving the contact patch relative to the steering geometry which has an effect on tyre feedback and self centre.
My car is JDM spec, so the tyres are wider 235/45x17, UK uses 225/45x17.
Lots of people use 18" wheels and lower profile tyres, i don't think that's a good move on the road, i didn't even use a bigger diameter wheel on sprints or Time Attack as the sidewall flex adds some benefits in the traction zones.
I really like current set up, so I think I will just change the tyres later in the year. Seems a bit of a waste to change them now tbh as I'm mainly doing family driving.
On the road you always want the smallest wheels that will fit over your brakes. The only benefit of a bigger wheel is improved steering response due to lower-profile tyres, and even that’s marginal and more dependent on sidewall stiffness.
Big wheels and thin tyres are heavier and less compliant...for show not go
Big wheels and thin tyres are heavier and less compliant...for show not go
Gassing Station | Subaru | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff