China, shooting for the moon
Discussion
MartG said:
Cancelled by the NIMBY's knee jerk reaction to anything containing the words 'nuclear' or 'radiation', just like our power stations :-(
Indeed. Austria banned nuclear power stations after Fukushima, forgetting that they were neither in an earthquake zone nor at risk from tidal waves...MartG said:
MarkRSi said:
Where's the atomic powered stuff we saw in Thunderbirds etc?!!? 
Cancelled by the NIMBY's knee jerk reaction to anything containing the words 'nuclear' or 'radiation', just like our power stations :-(MarkRSi said:
I think the problem is that the engineering really hasn't moved on a great deal since the 1960/70s. Asides from the electronic equipment a 'modern' lunar vehicle would be the same as the Apollo one I.e. a big f
koff expensive hydrogen powered rocket like Saturn V, if not bigger still...
Where's the atomic powered stuff we saw in Thunderbirds etc?!!?
Ion drive is the future.koff expensive hydrogen powered rocket like Saturn V, if not bigger still...Where's the atomic powered stuff we saw in Thunderbirds etc?!!?
MarkRSi said:
I think the problem is that the engineering really hasn't moved on a great deal since the 1960/70s. Asides from the electronic equipment a 'modern' lunar vehicle would be the same as the Apollo one I.e. a big fkoff expensive hydrogen powered rocket like Saturn V, if not bigger still...
Where's the atomic powered stuff we saw in Thunderbirds etc?!!?
The engineering has moved on massively, to such an extent that to simply rebuild a Saturn V would be very difficult. Materials science, understanding of aerodynamics, computing and therefore the capacity for analysis have all advanced greatly.koff expensive hydrogen powered rocket like Saturn V, if not bigger still...Where's the atomic powered stuff we saw in Thunderbirds etc?!!?
What hasn't changed is that in order to lift something into orbit, you have to give it a huge amount of energy. A large conventional rocket is still the simplest and currently the best way of doing that. Research is ongoing with high speed air breathing engines, but with mixed success so far.
tank slapper said:
The engineering has moved on massively, to such an extent that to simply rebuild a Saturn V would be very difficult. Materials science, understanding of aerodynamics, computing and therefore the capacity for analysis have all advanced greatly.
It seems odd to my simple brain that because technology has 'advanced massively' we can no longer do things...So we can now 'txt r m8s' but not get into orbit.
Simpo Two said:
It seems odd to my simple brain that because technology has 'advanced massively' we can no longer do things...
What I meant was that engineering practices have changed a lot since then, so building a Saturn V to exactly the same design would be problematic. Skill sets have changed, parts availability for sub-assemblies have changed, and the use of materials has changed. I didn't mean that we literally couldn't build it again, but that it would be a lot simpler to design something from scratch using modern methods than attempt to recreate what was done before.Fair point. Well in that case it should be cheaper and easier to do than it was in the 1960s...!
I met a similar condundrum at Hawker Restorations. The Hurricane has a dodecahedral spar which is a friction fit outside a round one. Whilst they were pumping them out merrily for pennies in 1940, the technology to make it (quickly and affordably) no longer existed.
I suppose it all comes down to the NEED to do something. We no longer need to build Hurricanes to defend England or Saturn Vs to reach the moon, so we build 40 gazillion mobile phones instead. Gr8.
I met a similar condundrum at Hawker Restorations. The Hurricane has a dodecahedral spar which is a friction fit outside a round one. Whilst they were pumping them out merrily for pennies in 1940, the technology to make it (quickly and affordably) no longer existed.
I suppose it all comes down to the NEED to do something. We no longer need to build Hurricanes to defend England or Saturn Vs to reach the moon, so we build 40 gazillion mobile phones instead. Gr8.
Simpo Two said:
tank slapper said:
The engineering has moved on massively, to such an extent that to simply rebuild a Saturn V would be very difficult. Materials science, understanding of aerodynamics, computing and therefore the capacity for analysis have all advanced greatly.
It seems odd to my simple brain that because technology has 'advanced massively' we can no longer do things...So we can now 'txt r m8s' but not get into orbit.
Eric Mc said:
Simpo Two said:
Eric Mc said:
We can get into orbit and do so on a regular basis.
I was thinking of getting men into orbit.And within 5 or 6 more years we wwill have more manned spacecraft options for orbital flight than at any time in history.
When the government is involved it has pretty much infinite resources at its disposal but what happens when it's a private firm that has to deal with it?
Also in the event of a rocket exploding or similar, what happens to the company?
Frankeh said:
With private space flight, what happens in the event of a catastrophe where either a space ship is lost or even worst someone's left stranded in space?
When the government is involved it has pretty much infinite resources at its disposal but what happens when it's a private firm that has to deal with it?
Also in the event of a rocket exploding or similar, what happens to the company?
Not only is it a challenge for the engineering industries, it's a challenge for the insurance industry too When the government is involved it has pretty much infinite resources at its disposal but what happens when it's a private firm that has to deal with it?
Also in the event of a rocket exploding or similar, what happens to the company?
I'd imagine it'd be similar to what happens if a plane crashes.My wife suggested last night that the recent "gravity mapping" satellite the Americans have floated around the moon could actually be there to spy on the Chinese - What are chances of that?
Internally, Chinese people are very excited about getting to the moon. The owner of a factory we use has another company manufacturing buttons (electrical push buttons). One of their buttons has been used on something related to the moon mission and that entitles them to claim the company is a partner in the moon mission. Employees and their families will no doubt watch the moon mission whilst thinking "Uncle Chen's button did that"
For the Chinese I think it is very much about keeping face in front of their own people and simply posturing to the rest of the world. No doubt they will spend a lot of time telling people how they did it better than the Americans and gloss over the fact it was done first, many years ago.
Many Chinese engineers I speak to see Mars being their long term aim, particularly now the Americans seem to have put their plans on-hold. For the Chinese, beating the rest of the world to Mars would be a massive achievement - Landing on the moon is just a practise run.
Internally, Chinese people are very excited about getting to the moon. The owner of a factory we use has another company manufacturing buttons (electrical push buttons). One of their buttons has been used on something related to the moon mission and that entitles them to claim the company is a partner in the moon mission. Employees and their families will no doubt watch the moon mission whilst thinking "Uncle Chen's button did that"
For the Chinese I think it is very much about keeping face in front of their own people and simply posturing to the rest of the world. No doubt they will spend a lot of time telling people how they did it better than the Americans and gloss over the fact it was done first, many years ago.
Many Chinese engineers I speak to see Mars being their long term aim, particularly now the Americans seem to have put their plans on-hold. For the Chinese, beating the rest of the world to Mars would be a massive achievement - Landing on the moon is just a practise run.
Edited by 200bhp on Thursday 5th January 12:27
200bhp said:
My wife suggested last night that the recent "gravity mapping" satellite the Americans have floated around the moon could actually be there to spy on the Chinese - What are chances of that?
Internally, Chinese people are very excited about getting to the moon. The owner of a factory we use has another company manufacturing buttons (electrical push buttons). One of their buttons has been used on something related to the moon mission and that entitles them to claim the company is a partner in the moon mission. Employees and their families will no doubt watch the moon mission whilst thinking "Uncle Chen's button did that"
For the Chinese I think it is very much about keeping face in front of their own people and simply posturing to the rest of the world. No doubt they will spend a lot of time telling people how they did it better than the Americans and gloss over the fact it was done first, many years ago.
Many Chinese engineers I speak to see Mars being their long term aim, particularly now the Americans seem to have put their plans on-hold. For the Chinese, beating the rest of the world to Mars would be a massive achievement - Landing on the moon is just a practise run.
Not likely since it can't take traditional pictures. NASA already have the LRO in orbit however, which is taking stunningly detailed pictures - so that would work.Internally, Chinese people are very excited about getting to the moon. The owner of a factory we use has another company manufacturing buttons (electrical push buttons). One of their buttons has been used on something related to the moon mission and that entitles them to claim the company is a partner in the moon mission. Employees and their families will no doubt watch the moon mission whilst thinking "Uncle Chen's button did that"
For the Chinese I think it is very much about keeping face in front of their own people and simply posturing to the rest of the world. No doubt they will spend a lot of time telling people how they did it better than the Americans and gloss over the fact it was done first, many years ago.
Many Chinese engineers I speak to see Mars being their long term aim, particularly now the Americans seem to have put their plans on-hold. For the Chinese, beating the rest of the world to Mars would be a massive achievement - Landing on the moon is just a practise run.
Edited by 200bhp on Thursday 5th January 12:27
It's absolutely immposible to hide a spacecraft either on its way to the moon, in orbit around the moon and probably on the moon (unless the lander has been disguised to look like a lunar boulder).
I think landing a man on the moon would be a major achievement for any nation. The Chinese have a long way to go before they have the capability to do this - so seeing it as a practice run is mildly facetious. It will take a big effort and will be dangerous - as it was for the Apollo astronauts.
200bhp said:
My wife suggested last night that the recent "gravity mapping" satellite the Americans have floated around the moon could actually be there to spy on the Chinese - What are chances of that?
Pretty low.Edited by 200bhp on Thursday 5th January 12:27
I'd imagine China would hardly be keeping the information under it's hat if they were walking on the Moon, you wouldn't need NASA satellites to keep an eye on them either, the Moon's not that far away.
MiniMan64 said:
200bhp said:
My wife suggested last night that the recent "gravity mapping" satellite the Americans have floated around the moon could actually be there to spy on the Chinese - What are chances of that?
Pretty low.Edited by 200bhp on Thursday 5th January 12:27
I'd imagine China would hardly be keeping the information under it's hat if they were walking on the Moon, you wouldn't need NASA satellites to keep an eye on them either, the Moon's not that far away.
Certainly, getting there is very obvious and the Chinese will want the world to see their achievement anyway.
Eric Mc said:
I don't think you would be able to spot humans wal;king on the surface from 250,000 miles though.
No but you can see the evidende of them being there:
http://www.tass-survey.org/richmond/answers/lunar_...
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