Where did the language of maths come from?
Discussion
First of all, I vote for a few more Emoticon icons; preferably a question mark icon. 
On to the question at hand; I've been watching a lot of documentaries lately (which will be the topic of other threads yet to be created by myself) ranging from Ancient Egypt, the Universe, drug addiction, prisons, etc etc etc and a few most recently about String Theory (to which I am an advocate of; wait for the appropriate topic) and Quantum Physics and the likes.
Math is the language of the universe it has been said and if intelligent life does exist out there and we try and communicate it would be highly probable that the communication would be through mathematics. I suppose there is a chance it may come in the form of pictures, but one would assume if they are intelligent enough to make contact with us purposely, it would be through math.
My question is this; How in the world did mathematics and more specifically physics originate? I suppose answering this would be like trying to answer the origin of language. Who said we'll use 26 characters and they will mean "this" when put together?
How did one who was one day pondering the working of the universe suddenly come up with the idea of using equations to prove or disprove their query?
I must warn you by the way that math was my worse subject by far.
so please....be gentle.
On to the question at hand; I've been watching a lot of documentaries lately (which will be the topic of other threads yet to be created by myself) ranging from Ancient Egypt, the Universe, drug addiction, prisons, etc etc etc and a few most recently about String Theory (to which I am an advocate of; wait for the appropriate topic) and Quantum Physics and the likes.
Math is the language of the universe it has been said and if intelligent life does exist out there and we try and communicate it would be highly probable that the communication would be through mathematics. I suppose there is a chance it may come in the form of pictures, but one would assume if they are intelligent enough to make contact with us purposely, it would be through math.
My question is this; How in the world did mathematics and more specifically physics originate? I suppose answering this would be like trying to answer the origin of language. Who said we'll use 26 characters and they will mean "this" when put together?
How did one who was one day pondering the working of the universe suddenly come up with the idea of using equations to prove or disprove their query?
I must warn you by the way that math was my worse subject by far.
so please....be gentle.
The mathematics of today is derived from work carried out by humans going back to ancient times. Therefore, a lot of the expressions that are used trace their roots to the languages of ancient civilisations.
Some of the basic stuff is actually Arabic. It was the Arabs who popularised the use of Base 10 and it was also the Arabs who invented the concept of Zero and Minus numbers. The digits 1, 2,3, 4 etc are also Arabic in nature. Some mathematical expressions are Arabic too - algebra, algorithim for example.
Most of the letters we us in algebra are Roman A, B, C, X etc.
Some symbols we use are ancient Greek - Delta, Pi, Omega, Sigma etc.
Some of the basic stuff is actually Arabic. It was the Arabs who popularised the use of Base 10 and it was also the Arabs who invented the concept of Zero and Minus numbers. The digits 1, 2,3, 4 etc are also Arabic in nature. Some mathematical expressions are Arabic too - algebra, algorithim for example.
Most of the letters we us in algebra are Roman A, B, C, X etc.
Some symbols we use are ancient Greek - Delta, Pi, Omega, Sigma etc.
Targ - Not 1 TBH and I am 30 years old. I knew I should have just Wiki'd it and avoid a proper PH whipping LOL Quick someone quote my OP so I cant delete it and save myself further embarrassment and shame 
Pumpkin and Doofus - MathS is it? I had no idea, seriously. It doesn't sound right to me though.
Perhaps my next thread will attract a more reasonable discussion. Ah screw it, I may as well do it here and now...
Again, my curiosity has been sparked by my viewing of an array of documentaries, and I wonder....
There are so many mysteries/questions surrounding ancient Egypt and their engineering and intelligence etc. Why are there questions? Why? How? Because how is there not living descendants of Egyptian culture where such information has been passed down. The Mayans too, hell, every great civilization or man. Take Jesus Christ for example, or Buddha, anyone, surely there must be someone alive today who is a knowing descendant. I mean seriously, what happened, all the people who were alive in Ancient Egypt who had offspring spanning 3,000 years just suddenly all disappeared?
Pumpkin and Doofus - MathS is it? I had no idea, seriously. It doesn't sound right to me though.
Perhaps my next thread will attract a more reasonable discussion. Ah screw it, I may as well do it here and now...
Again, my curiosity has been sparked by my viewing of an array of documentaries, and I wonder....
There are so many mysteries/questions surrounding ancient Egypt and their engineering and intelligence etc. Why are there questions? Why? How? Because how is there not living descendants of Egyptian culture where such information has been passed down. The Mayans too, hell, every great civilization or man. Take Jesus Christ for example, or Buddha, anyone, surely there must be someone alive today who is a knowing descendant. I mean seriously, what happened, all the people who were alive in Ancient Egypt who had offspring spanning 3,000 years just suddenly all disappeared?
Eric Mc said:
The mathematics of today is derived from work carried out by humans going back to ancient times. Therefore, a lot of the expressions that are used trace their roots to the languages of ancient civilisations.
Some of the basic stuff is actually Arabic. It was the Arabs who popularised the use of Base 10 and it was also the Arabs who invented the concept of Zero and Minus numbers. The digits 1, 2,3, 4 etc are also Arabic in nature. Some mathematical expressions are Arabic too - algebra, algorithim for example.
Most of the letters we us in algebra are Roman A, B, C, X etc.
Some symbols we use are ancient Greek - Delta, Pi, Omega, Sigma etc.
Thank you!Some of the basic stuff is actually Arabic. It was the Arabs who popularised the use of Base 10 and it was also the Arabs who invented the concept of Zero and Minus numbers. The digits 1, 2,3, 4 etc are also Arabic in nature. Some mathematical expressions are Arabic too - algebra, algorithim for example.
Most of the letters we us in algebra are Roman A, B, C, X etc.
Some symbols we use are ancient Greek - Delta, Pi, Omega, Sigma etc.
The obvious first form of communication with any other life would be visual (pictures or signs). Its how we originaly communcated with people who spoke other languages, and its how we communcate with people who can't hear language (ie deaf)
Even without training you can communicate reasonably well to someone with gestures or signs.
Even without training you can communicate reasonably well to someone with gestures or signs.
ESOG said:
Eric Mc said:
The mathematics of today is derived from work carried out by humans going back to ancient times. Therefore, a lot of the expressions that are used trace their roots to the languages of ancient civilisations.
Some of the basic stuff is actually Arabic. It was the Arabs who popularised the use of Base 10 and it was also the Arabs who invented the concept of Zero and Minus numbers. The digits 1, 2,3, 4 etc are also Arabic in nature. Some mathematical expressions are Arabic too - algebra, algorithim for example.
Most of the letters we us in algebra are Roman A, B, C, X etc.
Some symbols we use are ancient Greek - Delta, Pi, Omega, Sigma etc.
Thank you!Some of the basic stuff is actually Arabic. It was the Arabs who popularised the use of Base 10 and it was also the Arabs who invented the concept of Zero and Minus numbers. The digits 1, 2,3, 4 etc are also Arabic in nature. Some mathematical expressions are Arabic too - algebra, algorithim for example.
Most of the letters we us in algebra are Roman A, B, C, X etc.
Some symbols we use are ancient Greek - Delta, Pi, Omega, Sigma etc.
What is meant when they said "the language of maths is universal" is that the concepts will be the same throughout the universe. For example "True" and "False" in formal logic have very clear precise meanings, and there is no other state. You can represent these states using the words "true" and "false" but it wouldn't matter what symbols you used, the meaning would be unchanged. Have a look at this wiki for more on formal logic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_logic
The "language of physics" is also universal, but the notation is also mostly arbitrary. When you have a chemical reaction there may be two molecules react and combine to produce a new molecule, and this will be true throughout the known universe. We will write down a balanced chemical reaction using our notation, and the other intelligent life will also know about these reactions but would use different notation. However the concept/meaning would be identical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_equation#Bal...
Also have a look at formal semantics and logic systems as concepts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_semantics_(log...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_system
ESOG said:
Again, my curiosity has been sparked by my viewing of an array of documentaries, and I wonder....
There are so many mysteries/questions surrounding ancient Egypt and their engineering and intelligence etc. Why are there questions? Why? How? Because how is there not living descendants of Egyptian culture where such information has been passed down. The Mayans too, hell, every great civilization or man. Take Jesus Christ for example, or Buddha, anyone, surely there must be someone alive today who is a knowing descendant. I mean seriously, what happened, all the people who were alive in Ancient Egypt who had offspring spanning 3,000 years just suddenly all disappeared?
Put the remote away and ignore crap documentaries. There are not as many mysteries as there are half baked conspiracy theories and ignorant documentary makers.There are so many mysteries/questions surrounding ancient Egypt and their engineering and intelligence etc. Why are there questions? Why? How? Because how is there not living descendants of Egyptian culture where such information has been passed down. The Mayans too, hell, every great civilization or man. Take Jesus Christ for example, or Buddha, anyone, surely there must be someone alive today who is a knowing descendant. I mean seriously, what happened, all the people who were alive in Ancient Egypt who had offspring spanning 3,000 years just suddenly all disappeared?
Of course there are descendants of ancient civilisations (although I'm not sure that there is any claim that either Jesus or Buddha had kids so you're going to have trouble there), but that isnt the same as retaining skills or knowledge. For that you need fairly continuous civilisation able and wanting to exercise those skills and/or a level of literacy able to propagate that knowledge (and again stability for the records to survive).
Ways of doing things are lost in many ways and there is no need to look back to the 'ancients' to see that. Skills and knowledge from a hundred years ago are lost and thats in a time when there is good documentary record keeping.
A lot of the ancient building secrets come down to the fact that if you have enough slaves and a big enough ego then you don't actually care about the costs and time involved in doing something.
bigandclever said:
TooLateForAName said:
...although I'm not sure that there is any claim that either Jesus or Buddha had kids so you're going to have trouble there...
Pretty sure that Buddha had a son.
There are also claims that Jesus the Christ (if you believe that individual existed) had kids as well, with Mary (hence the reason she was airbrushed out of orthodox Christianity).
TooLateForAName said:
A lot of the ancient building secrets come down to the fact that if you have enough slaves and a big enough ego then you don't actually care about the costs and time involved in doing something
Not the pyramids. The idea that 'lots of slaves' was the secret is not accurate. There are still plenty of mysteries about the Great Pyramid.Edited by Halb on Wednesday 20th June 11:02
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