Discussion
Following a brief discussion in this thread...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I thought it was about time (sic) that there needs a bit of reality brought to the whole subject of time.
So... what is time?
The first thing to realise is that time is a measurement, nothing more or less, we call it a Meter or Metric.
Time has no properties of its own, there is no formula for time, if you see it in any formulae it is simply 't'.
Time is an attribute of Causality and Causality is a product of Motion (movement).
Time never has and never will be mutable, something to be manipulated, that is why it is called (very correctly) times arrow, it passes in one direction as ceaselessly as motion and causality.
Now look at the impossibility of time travel, both back and forward.
Back first.
Can you reverse causality? can you make something that has already happened to not happen? The answer is self-evident, you cannot, you can stop something from happening if you intervene now, this instant, but that is all that we can do, so to return to some place in the past, things would have to 'unhappen' and that is not possible, you are too late, it's happened. Even when a cinematographer causes a film to reverse and the dropped cup re-appears whole again, that has happened along times arrow, it didn't 'unhappen'.
How about going forward?
Time is the very essence of 'now', you type in response to my text, that is the cause of you actions, to jump forward to next week, you have to jump to a point in the future with no cause for anything to be where it is or doing what it does, no cause means no time, this means the future truly does not exist, there are things in motion that means it will, but it is not written or defined, it all happens in this instant 'now'.
This is all a consequence of Causality.
At this point in time we know everything there is to know about time, a million years from now no-one will be able to say anything more than I know now and if you grasp this text they won't know anything more than you do either.
Perhaps for the first time in History, by simply understanding what I have written here, you and the entire World can stand on a shared pinnacle of understanding, no-one will ever know more than you do about the immutability of time.
No scientist, no shamen, nobody ever will elevate this pinnacle of understanding.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I thought it was about time (sic) that there needs a bit of reality brought to the whole subject of time.
So... what is time?
The first thing to realise is that time is a measurement, nothing more or less, we call it a Meter or Metric.
Time has no properties of its own, there is no formula for time, if you see it in any formulae it is simply 't'.
Time is an attribute of Causality and Causality is a product of Motion (movement).
Time never has and never will be mutable, something to be manipulated, that is why it is called (very correctly) times arrow, it passes in one direction as ceaselessly as motion and causality.
Now look at the impossibility of time travel, both back and forward.
Back first.
Can you reverse causality? can you make something that has already happened to not happen? The answer is self-evident, you cannot, you can stop something from happening if you intervene now, this instant, but that is all that we can do, so to return to some place in the past, things would have to 'unhappen' and that is not possible, you are too late, it's happened. Even when a cinematographer causes a film to reverse and the dropped cup re-appears whole again, that has happened along times arrow, it didn't 'unhappen'.
How about going forward?
Time is the very essence of 'now', you type in response to my text, that is the cause of you actions, to jump forward to next week, you have to jump to a point in the future with no cause for anything to be where it is or doing what it does, no cause means no time, this means the future truly does not exist, there are things in motion that means it will, but it is not written or defined, it all happens in this instant 'now'.
This is all a consequence of Causality.
At this point in time we know everything there is to know about time, a million years from now no-one will be able to say anything more than I know now and if you grasp this text they won't know anything more than you do either.
Perhaps for the first time in History, by simply understanding what I have written here, you and the entire World can stand on a shared pinnacle of understanding, no-one will ever know more than you do about the immutability of time.
No scientist, no shamen, nobody ever will elevate this pinnacle of understanding.
Zumbruk said:
Gene Vincent said:
Zumbruk said:
Gene Vincent said:
Stuff.
This isn't right. It isn't even wrong.You go first, where specifically is there a single statement that is wrong and present your reasoning.
The floor, is yours!
Gene Vincent said:
The first thing to realise is that time is a measurement, nothing more or less, we call it a Meter or Metric.
Err, no. Time is a component (or dimension) of Minkowski Spacetime. It is a consequence of the second law of thermodynamics, and is experienced by humans as a sequential separation of events and experiences. It is measured by clocks. It is what stops everything happening at once. So it is in fact a great deal more than a measurement. Edited by Gaspode on Sunday 12th August 18:11
Gene Vincent said:
Time is an attribute of Causality and Causality is a product of Motion (movement).
No it isn't, and no it isn't.A causal event happens at a fixed point in space-time, but then so do lots of other (non-causal) events. The statement 'causality is a product of motion' is an effectively meaningless statement, pure sophistry.
Gene Vincent said:
Time never has and never will be mutable, something to be manipulated, that is why it is called (very correctly) times arrow, it passes in one direction as ceaselessly as motion and causality.
Err, No. Both Special and General Relativity demonstrate that time is indeed capable of being manipulated. "Time's Arrow" deosn't actually seem to pass in a single direction at all, in fact there are conditions in which it's "direction" appears to be pretty arbitrary.For a detailed exposition of this and other points, read "Why does E=Mc^2? (And why should we care?)" by Brian Cox and Jeff Forshaw.
Gaspode said:
Gene Vincent said:
The first thing to realise is that time is a measurement, nothing more or less, we call it a Meter or Metric.
Err, no. Time is a component (or dimension) of Minkowski Spacetime. It is a consequence of the second law of thermodynamics, and is experienced by humans as a sequential separation of events and experiences. It is measured by clocks. It is what stops everything happening at once. So it is in fact a great deal more than a measurement. Edited by Gaspode on Sunday 12th August 18:11
This does not make them have an existence in and of themselves.
The 2LoT does not create time, time is the meter upon which the law can operate within, but plays no other part than that.
You are confusing Causality and Time as to being the same thing, they are not, the former is real and second is simply the measure of the effect brought about by an event (causality).
You are not seeing deeply enough into the matter if you can confuse the two.
Gaspode said:
Gene Vincent said:
Time is an attribute of Causality and Causality is a product of Motion (movement).
No it isn't, and no it isn't.A causal event happens at a fixed point in space-time, but then so do lots of other (non-causal) events. The statement 'causality is a product of motion' is an effectively meaningless statement, pure sophistry.
It is not sophistry, it is the actuality of time, it is why the Singularity is termed "t=0"
The start of time is the start of motion, hence t=0.
It is only meaningless because you fail to understand, it would not be meaningless if you did.
Gaspode said:
Gene Vincent said:
Time never has and never will be mutable, something to be manipulated, that is why it is called (very correctly) times arrow, it passes in one direction as ceaselessly as motion and causality.
Err, No. Both Special and General Relativity demonstrate that time is indeed capable of being manipulated. "Time's Arrow" deosn't actually seem to pass in a single direction at all, in fact there are conditions in which it's "direction" appears to be pretty arbitrary.For a detailed exposition of this and other points, read "Why does E=Mc^2? (And why should we care?)" by Brian Cox and Jeff Forshaw.
davepoth said:
Gene Vincent said:
Absolutely serious.
You have in my post above all there is to know about time.
The only way you would know that is if you had been to the future to check. Your argument is therefore invalid.You have in my post above all there is to know about time.
HTH.
The reason it is so simple is that it is singular, the other three work together and this gives them a myriad of complex characteristics, but time is like a just one of those dimensions all on its own and 'x' without 'y' or 'z' is simple in the extreme.
Time is no different to that.
I recommend you re-read my first post and get your head around it, it is correct, it is how it is., no time travel or future-proofing is required.
Gene Vincent said:
There are no 'non-causal' events in the Cosmos, that is called 'magic' and has no place in the 'Science!' forum.
A non-causal event is an event which does not have a measurable effect in the frame of the observer. I can't be arsed to engage in further discussion, you are a patronising git. Gaspode said:
Gene Vincent said:
There are no 'non-causal' events in the Cosmos, that is called 'magic' and has no place in the 'Science!' forum.
A non-causal event is an event which does not have a measurable effect in the frame of the observer. I can't be arsed to engage in further discussion, you are a patronising git. Perhaps you had better stop. you are making a fool of yourself.
read my first post and get just that tad wiser than you were before doing so, don't fight knowledge, embrace it.
Gene Vincent said:
Any and every event has a cause, it ceases to be an event if it has no cause!
Perhaps you had better stop. you are making a fool of yourself.
read my first post and get just that tad wiser than you were before doing so, don't fight knowledge, embrace it.
You can't even be bothered to read what I'm writing. I don't dispute that every event has a cause, I am making the point that it is possible for an event to have no measurable effect. To be thought a fool by such as you is no hardship.Perhaps you had better stop. you are making a fool of yourself.
read my first post and get just that tad wiser than you were before doing so, don't fight knowledge, embrace it.
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