Discussion
Apologies if posted before (it's quite old, but understand they've got it working) - using what effectively looks like a super-intercooler for a jet engine.
EU to AUS in 4-4.5 hours.
Reusable spaceships!
http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/
Reaction Engines said:
In the past, attempts to design single stage to orbit propulsion systems have been unsuccessful largely due to the weight of an on-board oxidiser such as liquid oxygen, needed by conventional rocket engines. One possible solution to reduce the quantity of on-board oxidizer required is by using oxygen already present in the atmosphere in the combustion process just like an ordinary jet engine. This weight saving would enable the transition from single-use multi-stage launch vehicles to multi-use single stage launch vehicles.
Mach 5!EU to AUS in 4-4.5 hours.
Reusable spaceships!
http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/
Was about to post this.
Some of the same people behind HOTOL are involved in this.
They've passed all the tests on the pre-cooler which is fantastic news!
One step closer to SSTO!
It's not an intercooler as the air is cooled before being compressed.
This will make effective Jet/Rocket Hybrid engines a reality.
Some of the same people behind HOTOL are involved in this.
They've passed all the tests on the pre-cooler which is fantastic news!
One step closer to SSTO!
It's not an intercooler as the air is cooled before being compressed.
This will make effective Jet/Rocket Hybrid engines a reality.
annodomini2 said:
It's not an intercooler as the air is cooled before being compressed.
This is a detail that has previously eluded me - I just assumed the intercooler cooled the air before it went into the turbo, but you're saying the turbo compresses it and then it's cooled? (In an ICE).Tonsko said:
annodomini2 said:
It's not an intercooler as the air is cooled before being compressed.
This is a detail that has previously eluded me - I just assumed the intercooler cooled the air before it went into the turbo, but you're saying the turbo compresses it and then it's cooled? (In an ICE).http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo2.htm
It it still presumably an intercooler as it's between compression stages. At Mach 5 they're going going to pretty significant compression in the air intake ahead of the cooler, which is how a RAM or SCRAM jet work. Looks like the idea is similar to the SR-71 engine in that the use a variable geometry intake cone to get shocks that compress the air, and then use a small portion of that air in the engine core, while the rest passes around the outside and is burned as a RAM jet. On the SR-71 that core is a jet engine, on the SABRE it's a rocket that can run on compressed air or oxidant.
http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre_howworks.ht...
http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre_howworks.ht...
Tonsko said:
Mach 5!
YesTonsko said:
EU to AUS in 4-4.5 hours.
NoTonsko said:
Reusable spaceships!
YesFast and potential as first part of SSTO spaceplane but not a passenger plane, can you imagine the ticket price?! Lastly, who needs to get to Aus in such a hurry, its not like its a world business hub :-)
Another brilliant British innovation with much promise.... the chance we'll ever se a 500ft long spaceplan fly from the UK made in the UK and funded by the UK? More chance of aliens landing and offering us a free warp coil, sadly.
RizzoTheRat said:
It it still presumably an intercooler as it's between compression stages. At Mach 5 they're going going to pretty significant compression in the air intake ahead of the cooler, which is how a RAM or SCRAM jet work. Looks like the idea is similar to the SR-71 engine in that the use a variable geometry intake cone to get shocks that compress the air, and then use a small portion of that air in the engine core, while the rest passes around the outside and is burned as a RAM jet. On the SR-71 that core is a jet engine, on the SABRE it's a rocket that can run on compressed air or oxidant.
http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre_howworks.ht...
NOPE!http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre_howworks.ht...
There is no compressor in the inlet, just a shock cone.
The shock cones don't increase the compression over the forward momentum of the vehicle, they reduce the airspeed to subsonic speeds. As the supersonic shock waves would destroy the compressor.
The one in the SR-71 sees minimal pressure loss, uncertain on the SABRE as it hasn't been built yet.
You don't always need a compressor to compress air, the shock wave is a high pressure region. On the SR71 the compressor doesn't see high pressure air, but the shocks formed by the inlet cone give the bypass/afterburner high pressure air, it effectively runs as a ram jet. On the SABRE the heat exchanger sits between the cone and the compressor, so presumably would protect it from damage caused by the shock so might be able to feed pressurised air to the compressor. Agree there's not enough detail published to know yet though.
scubadude said:
Tonsko said:
Mach 5!
YesTonsko said:
EU to AUS in 4-4.5 hours.
NoTonsko said:
Reusable spaceships!
YesFast and potential as first part of SSTO spaceplane but not a passenger plane, can you imagine the ticket price?! Lastly, who needs to get to Aus in such a hurry, its not like its a world business hub :-)
Another brilliant British innovation with much promise.... the chance we'll ever se a 500ft long spaceplan fly from the UK made in the UK and funded by the UK? More chance of aliens landing and offering us a free warp coil, sadly.
RizzoTheRat said:
You don't always need a compressor to compress air, the shock wave is a high pressure region. On the SR71 the compressor doesn't see high pressure air, but the shocks formed by the inlet cone give the bypass/afterburner high pressure air, it effectively runs as a ram jet. On the SABRE the heat exchanger sits between the cone and the compressor, so presumably would protect it from damage caused by the shock so might be able to feed pressurised air to the compressor. Agree there's not enough detail published to know yet though.
True, but the air is compressed before it enters the aperture to the engine.On the A-12/SR71, @ Mach 2.2 the inlet cone can close off the jet engine (shuts down), the engine bypass becomes a supersonic ram jet (sram).
SABRE doesn't want supersonic airflow through the engine, when in air breathing mode.
The SR-71 did it this way to allow it to operate at sustained Mach 3 flight. Above Mach 2.2 the air temperature is so high when compressed by the compressor that the temperatures get to the point of melting the turbine blades, hence why they use this method.
This is why the SABRE will have a precooler allowing the sustained air breathing mode to continue beyond mach 2.2.
The SR71 uses the shock to compress the bypass air, but it runs as a RAM jet not a SCRAM, the flow is subsonic but at a higher temperature and pressure than ahead of engine. No idea if SABRE does but you could put that high temperature, high pressure air through the cooler before passing it through the compressor.
I watched the Rocketmen programme on the BBC some weeks ago. It's many of the same people who proposed HOTOL. It seems one of the main lessons learnt from HOTOL was not to patent any of the technology, because when they did that last time, it was classified by the Govt. And when the Govt didn't want to finance development they couldn't go for commercial funding. So this time they're protecting their IP by simply not telling anyone else.
Caruso said:
I watched the Rocketmen programme on the BBC some weeks ago. It's many of the same people who proposed HOTOL. It seems one of the main lessons learnt from HOTOL was not to patent any of the technology, because when they did that last time, it was classified by the Govt. And when the Govt didn't want to finance development they couldn't go for commercial funding. So this time they're protecting their IP by simply not telling anyone else.
Boffins Vs. Government = 1-0! 
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