Discussion
TheHeretic said:
You realise that Earth-like includes some pretty harsh, and diverse environments? High pressure, toxic, heat, cold, and so on? What suggests to you that Earth is unique, and what makes you think we are end products?
I'm speculating, no different to you! Earth is unique isn't it as we've yet to discover any identical planets afaik? Whilst some areas of the planet are harsh there is still enough room for 7bn humans ...TX.
Terminator X said:
TheHeretic said:
You realise that Earth-like includes some pretty harsh, and diverse environments? High pressure, toxic, heat, cold, and so on? What suggests to you that Earth is unique, and what makes you think we are end products?
I'm speculating, no different to you! Earth is unique isn't it as we've yet to discover any identical planets afaik? Whilst some areas of the planet are harsh there is still enough room for 7bn humans ...TX.
Looking at the vast distances and time scales involved for space travel, I think it's 'impossible' for earth to ever be contacted by another species or 'alien' society. Well we have around 2 billion years left of habitable earth life if we look after our planet. Just look what we have achieved in space over the past 50 years. Maybe one day humans could be the 'aliens' visiting another planet. God help them.
PD9 said:
At the moment I would say its only our technology that is holding us back from discovering some distant goldilocks planet. Obviously.
Looking at the vast distances and time scales involved for space travel, I think it's 'impossible' for earth to ever be contacted by another species or 'alien' society. Well we have around 2 billion years left of habitable earth life if we look after our planet. Just look what we have achieved in space over the past 50 years. Maybe one day humans could be the 'aliens' visiting another planet. God help them.
Not only that, but of all the billions, and billions of stars to visit, what are the odds of getting to one with intelligent life on it, or it us? Radio has only travelled less than 100 light years from Earth. Looking at the vast distances and time scales involved for space travel, I think it's 'impossible' for earth to ever be contacted by another species or 'alien' society. Well we have around 2 billion years left of habitable earth life if we look after our planet. Just look what we have achieved in space over the past 50 years. Maybe one day humans could be the 'aliens' visiting another planet. God help them.
TheHeretic said:
They could, but unlikely I think. How many insects look like us, bacteria, fish or reptiles? An extinction event could easily have wiped our ancestors out, just as the big Dinosaurs were, etc. Our faces, and that of mammals are in this configuration simply because that is the configuration that our distant ancestors had. There is nothing to say that something on another planet would have a 'head' so to speak. Basically, the variation we have on this single example we have to work with is unbelievably vast, and that all sprang from a single line. Any of those lines, extinct or not, could well have proved successful had the environment been slightly different, and the 'end product' could well be 8 legged, or a flying critter, and it would be considered the top critter.
Had to post this, sorry...
TheHeretic said:
Not only that, but of all the billions, and billions of stars to visit, what are the odds of getting to one with intelligent life on it, or it us? Radio has only travelled less than 100 light years from Earth.
The idea of finding advanced civilisations throughout the universe is one that fascinates most of us but there is a tendancy for folks to believe that all you need is water for life. It's far more complex than that. The Earth is an incredibly fortunate planet, starting with the fact that we are located on an outer arm of a relatively safe spiral galaxy as opposed to the more numerous and vastly more dangerous elliptical and irregular shaped galaxies.
Our Sun is a yellow dwarf and amongst the largest stars in the Milky Way, whereas the vast majority of stars are red dwarfs which aren't suited to supporting life. They are much less luminous meaning that a habitable planet would have to be much closer which in turn makes that planet more vulnerable to solar activity (flares and bursts of radiation) plus they dont produce a great deal of ultraviolet light which is needed to produce Oxygen.
The distance of Earth from the Sun is very important. We are sat in what is referred to as the "Circumstellar Habitable Zone", that is, the Earth is in just the right place to allow for oceans on its surface. Any closer and they'd be boiled and eveporate, which may have happened to Venus. Any futher away and we'd have to have a great deal more carbon dioxide in our atmosphere to retain more of the Sun's energy to stop the oceans from freezing over which in turn reduces the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere a consequence of which would be the inability for complex mammal like organisms to exist.
Even the size, shape and position of our moon supports life on Earth. It stabilises the Earth's tilt on it's axis which limits the variation in the seasons as we travel around the Sun. It increases the extent of our tides helping to keep the oceans rich in nutrients and helps to keep large scale ocean circulation active bringing warmth to the northern and southernmost areas of the globe.
Even the presence of the gas giants, planets such as Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus in the outer region of our solar system plays a part in facilitating the extistance of life on Earth. Jupiter in particular being 300 times the size of Earth and having such a large gravitational pull that it deflects comets, preventing them from travelling into the inner solar system and colliding with the smaller planets such as our own.
Then you've got the Earth itself. There are several boxes the Earth ticks that allow it to support life;
From its mass, which allows it to retain an atmosphere and allows for the Earth's metal content, heavy elements particularly iron are crucial to habitability as without them planets would not have internal heat sources or magnetic fields.
Even the prevalence of these metals near the Earth's surface is significant as they aided the technological development of mankind.
Also there's the existance of plate tectonics which is increasingly being acknowledged as having a crucial role in so many of the Earth's processes. Whether its recycling carbon which helps to regulate the temperature on Earth and balance the levels of greenhouse gasses, the creation of the magnetic field which protects us from solar radiation that could destroy our atmosphere to its role in the formation of oceans, continents and mountain ranges that encourage such great diversity in life on Earth. No other planet in our solar system has active tectonic activity, there has been conjecture as to whether or not Mars was once tectonically active but at present there isn't enough evidence to suggest it ever was.
You must also consider the numerous biogeochemical cycles that take place on Earth, all of which are integral to the existance of complex life.
There's the carbon cycle, sulphur cycle, phopherous cycle, nitrogen cycle, oxygen cycle and the hydrological cycle. All of which depend on the complex inner working of our planet, its molten core, tectonic activity and its atmosphere. Frankly Earth is f
king amazing!It's very easy to look at that famous Hubble Deep Field image littered as it is with galaxies and come to the conclusion that life must be everywhere in the universe, but in reality the conditions required to promote and sustain life are so many and so precise that actually there may not be anyone else out there.....maybe we'll never know.
MikeyMike said:
It's very easy to look at that famous Hubble Deep Field image littered as it is with galaxies and come to the conclusion that life must be everywhere in the universe, but in reality the conditions required to promote and sustain life are so many and so precise that actually there may not be anyone else out there.....maybe we'll never know.
Having a sample of only one makes that a very difficult judgement to make.Truly mind blown after reading this. Didn't realise it takes so much for Earth (and us) to exist...
MikeyMike said:
The idea of finding advanced civilisations throughout the universe is one that fascinates most of us but there is a tendancy for folks to believe that all you need is water for life. It's far more complex than that.
The Earth is an incredibly fortunate planet, starting with the fact that we are located on an outer arm of a relatively safe spiral galaxy as opposed to the more numerous and vastly more dangerous elliptical and irregular shaped galaxies.
Our Sun is a yellow dwarf and amongst the largest stars in the Milky Way, whereas the vast majority of stars are red dwarfs which aren't suited to supporting life. They are much less luminous meaning that a habitable planet would have to be much closer which in turn makes that planet more vulnerable to solar activity (flares and bursts of radiation) plus they dont produce a great deal of ultraviolet light which is needed to produce Oxygen.
The distance of Earth from the Sun is very important. We are sat in what is referred to as the "Circumstellar Habitable Zone", that is, the Earth is in just the right place to allow for oceans on its surface. Any closer and they'd be boiled and eveporate, which may have happened to Venus. Any futher away and we'd have to have a great deal more carbon dioxide in our atmosphere to retain more of the Sun's energy to stop the oceans from freezing over which in turn reduces the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere a consequence of which would be the inability for complex mammal like organisms to exist.
Even the size, shape and position of our moon supports life on Earth. It stabilises the Earth's tilt on it's axis which limits the variation in the seasons as we travel around the Sun. It increases the extent of our tides helping to keep the oceans rich in nutrients and helps to keep large scale ocean circulation active bringing warmth to the northern and southernmost areas of the globe.
Even the presence of the gas giants, planets such as Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus in the outer region of our solar system plays a part in facilitating the extistance of life on Earth. Jupiter in particular being 300 times the size of Earth and having such a large gravitational pull that it deflects comets, preventing them from travelling into the inner solar system and colliding with the smaller planets such as our own.
Then you've got the Earth itself. There are several boxes the Earth ticks that allow it to support life;
From its mass, which allows it to retain an atmosphere and allows for the Earth's metal content, heavy elements particularly iron are crucial to habitability as without them planets would not have internal heat sources or magnetic fields.
Even the prevalence of these metals near the Earth's surface is significant as they aided the technological development of mankind.
Also there's the existance of plate tectonics which is increasingly being acknowledged as having a crucial role in so many of the Earth's processes. Whether its recycling carbon which helps to regulate the temperature on Earth and balance the levels of greenhouse gasses, the creation of the magnetic field which protects us from solar radiation that could destroy our atmosphere to its role in the formation of oceans, continents and mountain ranges that encourage such great diversity in life on Earth. No other planet in our solar system has active tectonic activity, there has been conjecture as to whether or not Mars was once tectonically active but at present there isn't enough evidence to suggest it ever was.
You must also consider the numerous biogeochemical cycles that take place on Earth, all of which are integral to the existance of complex life.
There's the carbon cycle, sulphur cycle, phopherous cycle, nitrogen cycle, oxygen cycle and the hydrological cycle. All of which depend on the complex inner working of our planet, its molten core, tectonic activity and its atmosphere. Frankly Earth is fking amazing!
It's very easy to look at that famous Hubble Deep Field image littered as it is with galaxies and come to the conclusion that life must be everywhere in the universe, but in reality the conditions required to promote and sustain life are so many and so precise that actually there may not be anyone else out there.....maybe we'll never know.
The Earth is an incredibly fortunate planet, starting with the fact that we are located on an outer arm of a relatively safe spiral galaxy as opposed to the more numerous and vastly more dangerous elliptical and irregular shaped galaxies.
Our Sun is a yellow dwarf and amongst the largest stars in the Milky Way, whereas the vast majority of stars are red dwarfs which aren't suited to supporting life. They are much less luminous meaning that a habitable planet would have to be much closer which in turn makes that planet more vulnerable to solar activity (flares and bursts of radiation) plus they dont produce a great deal of ultraviolet light which is needed to produce Oxygen.
The distance of Earth from the Sun is very important. We are sat in what is referred to as the "Circumstellar Habitable Zone", that is, the Earth is in just the right place to allow for oceans on its surface. Any closer and they'd be boiled and eveporate, which may have happened to Venus. Any futher away and we'd have to have a great deal more carbon dioxide in our atmosphere to retain more of the Sun's energy to stop the oceans from freezing over which in turn reduces the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere a consequence of which would be the inability for complex mammal like organisms to exist.
Even the size, shape and position of our moon supports life on Earth. It stabilises the Earth's tilt on it's axis which limits the variation in the seasons as we travel around the Sun. It increases the extent of our tides helping to keep the oceans rich in nutrients and helps to keep large scale ocean circulation active bringing warmth to the northern and southernmost areas of the globe.
Even the presence of the gas giants, planets such as Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus in the outer region of our solar system plays a part in facilitating the extistance of life on Earth. Jupiter in particular being 300 times the size of Earth and having such a large gravitational pull that it deflects comets, preventing them from travelling into the inner solar system and colliding with the smaller planets such as our own.
Then you've got the Earth itself. There are several boxes the Earth ticks that allow it to support life;
From its mass, which allows it to retain an atmosphere and allows for the Earth's metal content, heavy elements particularly iron are crucial to habitability as without them planets would not have internal heat sources or magnetic fields.
Even the prevalence of these metals near the Earth's surface is significant as they aided the technological development of mankind.
Also there's the existance of plate tectonics which is increasingly being acknowledged as having a crucial role in so many of the Earth's processes. Whether its recycling carbon which helps to regulate the temperature on Earth and balance the levels of greenhouse gasses, the creation of the magnetic field which protects us from solar radiation that could destroy our atmosphere to its role in the formation of oceans, continents and mountain ranges that encourage such great diversity in life on Earth. No other planet in our solar system has active tectonic activity, there has been conjecture as to whether or not Mars was once tectonically active but at present there isn't enough evidence to suggest it ever was.
You must also consider the numerous biogeochemical cycles that take place on Earth, all of which are integral to the existance of complex life.
There's the carbon cycle, sulphur cycle, phopherous cycle, nitrogen cycle, oxygen cycle and the hydrological cycle. All of which depend on the complex inner working of our planet, its molten core, tectonic activity and its atmosphere. Frankly Earth is f
king amazing!It's very easy to look at that famous Hubble Deep Field image littered as it is with galaxies and come to the conclusion that life must be everywhere in the universe, but in reality the conditions required to promote and sustain life are so many and so precise that actually there may not be anyone else out there.....maybe we'll never know.
MikeyMike said:
Even the presence of the gas giants, planets such as Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus in the outer region of our solar system plays a part in facilitating the extistance of life on Earth. Jupiter in particular being 300 times the size of Earth and having such a large gravitational pull that it deflects comets, preventing them from travelling into the inner solar system and colliding with the smaller planets such as our own.
They also aim at us more recent research is showing. Perturbing orbits of big chunks of rock is something their massive gravity is good at, it does not always mean they take one for us or make them avoid us. That adds to the mix, as does the size of the gas giants. Bit bigger or a bit smaller and the results are different.
UFO Sightings At International Space Station On The Rise!
As 2012 ended and 2013 began, numerous UFOs were reported around the country -- nothing earthshattering there -- but what about alleged unidentified objects seen in space near the International Space Station (or ISS), a couple of hundred miles above Earth?
Videos have cropped up on YouTube showing images taken by NASA cameras of objects of different shapes, some moving very slowly, others rapidly hurtling through space.
What, exactly, are we looking at here? Alien spacecraft dropping by for a visit with the ISS? Reflections from ISS windows? Meteors? Or various types of orbiting or fast moving spacecraft-generated debris?
On Christmas Day, YouTube poster Streetcap1 recorded video of a silvery object, moving slowly near the curvature of Earth. At :46 into the following video, the object can be seen in faraway perspective.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/13/ufos-at-i...
As 2012 ended and 2013 began, numerous UFOs were reported around the country -- nothing earthshattering there -- but what about alleged unidentified objects seen in space near the International Space Station (or ISS), a couple of hundred miles above Earth?
Videos have cropped up on YouTube showing images taken by NASA cameras of objects of different shapes, some moving very slowly, others rapidly hurtling through space.
What, exactly, are we looking at here? Alien spacecraft dropping by for a visit with the ISS? Reflections from ISS windows? Meteors? Or various types of orbiting or fast moving spacecraft-generated debris?
On Christmas Day, YouTube poster Streetcap1 recorded video of a silvery object, moving slowly near the curvature of Earth. At :46 into the following video, the object can be seen in faraway perspective.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/13/ufos-at-i...
The ancient mac does not like the Huff P. Have to look later on the laptop. But I suspect many self proclaimed experts , experienced ordinary UFO lookers are not thinking about what the ISS is. It is all in its own orbit with all the rubbish and bits that go with it. Then you have camera's taking images and the provenance of those images are not understood. They do not understand the path light takes and how it interacts with a lens. And to cap it all they accuse the gubbmint of hiding things and then you get this.
My money is on a nothing event that is to be expected and can be explained.
Edit after looking on the other puter. eee gods, dramatic music for effect. Cheesy. OK, I am going with debris in orbit around the ISS apart from the first one, possible a few objects in space that do not orbit the iss dirtectly. Why is this pushed this way? It is a poor presentation to say the least but I do not expect anything better. If the got better then there would be a "you know what? looks like debris" comment. No kudos from your fellow believers.
My money is on a nothing event that is to be expected and can be explained.
Edit after looking on the other puter. eee gods, dramatic music for effect. Cheesy. OK, I am going with debris in orbit around the ISS apart from the first one, possible a few objects in space that do not orbit the iss dirtectly. Why is this pushed this way? It is a poor presentation to say the least but I do not expect anything better. If the got better then there would be a "you know what? looks like debris" comment. No kudos from your fellow believers.
Edited by jmorgan on Tuesday 15th January 08:56
I can go along with orbital debris...... Take a shot at this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7OfYZun3j0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7OfYZun3j0
Edited by Known Gambler on Tuesday 15th January 15:54
I guess these are some SILENT Helicopters, or perhaps some of those silent ultralights at night? Perhaps some of those pesky Chinese lanterns tied together? Maybe the Apophis Asteroid?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_6DSVFqSZk
Or perhaps this one over West Cornwall?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bbmYYCkpLQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_6DSVFqSZk
Or perhaps this one over West Cornwall?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bbmYYCkpLQ
Edited by Known Gambler on Tuesday 15th January 16:56
Here, try this one...a flying swimming pool?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azl4WGLPDZI
Or this one from last night in Detroit....but then again, it is Detroit, and could be just a GANG SIGN in the sky!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBP0xPV61jQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azl4WGLPDZI
Or this one from last night in Detroit....but then again, it is Detroit, and could be just a GANG SIGN in the sky!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBP0xPV61jQ
Edited by Known Gambler on Tuesday 15th January 18:05
Gassing Station | Science! | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff