Black Holes are not actually "holes".
Discussion
Gene Vincent said:
That's lightweight stuff!
At the very centre of a Black Hole Star is a singularity and that is less than a Schwarzchild diameter, ie infinitely small, and that is infinitely dense.
Just a few microns above this the density is sufficient that if I started typing the noughts now for that thimble full it would take me centuries to type the final zero.
There is a school of though that follows the idea that rather than just compressing the atoms further and further a point is reached when they are shredded, this accommodates the zero point needed for the infinitely small point in the Theory of Relativity, because the electrons etc are point particles themselves and only have any size by having a sphere of influence, remove the interaction of these spheres of influence and all you have left is multiple points in space that are dimensionless, it very neatly accommodates all the right parts and is my own favoured singularity theory. But it is not certain.
Hold on, earlier I asked At the very centre of a Black Hole Star is a singularity and that is less than a Schwarzchild diameter, ie infinitely small, and that is infinitely dense.
Just a few microns above this the density is sufficient that if I started typing the noughts now for that thimble full it would take me centuries to type the final zero.
There is a school of though that follows the idea that rather than just compressing the atoms further and further a point is reached when they are shredded, this accommodates the zero point needed for the infinitely small point in the Theory of Relativity, because the electrons etc are point particles themselves and only have any size by having a sphere of influence, remove the interaction of these spheres of influence and all you have left is multiple points in space that are dimensionless, it very neatly accommodates all the right parts and is my own favoured singularity theory. But it is not certain.
dodgyviper said:
What happens to the matter that passes the EH? Specifically, I was thinking of things at the sub atomic level
And you repliedGene Vincent said:
Nothing really.
Electrons losing their spheres of influence is more than 'nothing really', its a breakdown of the electromagnetic force.Shredding atoms isn't nothing, goddammit it man, its positively fun
Gene Vincent said:
GokTweed said:
Gene Vincent said:
They formed from an ordinary (although very large) star collapsing in an already rotating galaxy, they are sometimes at the centre because the centre is the oldest bit of a galaxy, but they don't always form there.
There are singletons but they are rare and still move about a centre of a group or groups of galaxies.
The galaxy groups also move around an ever changing filament which also has a centre of rotation.
Ahhh okay. There are singletons but they are rare and still move about a centre of a group or groups of galaxies.
The galaxy groups also move around an ever changing filament which also has a centre of rotation.
So groups of galaxies move around something as well? is that their collective centre of gravity or something?
and what is a filament?
http://image.dhgate.com/albu_238122788_00/1.0x0.jp...
also why did matter and then galaxies only form on those filaments rather than in a random distribution following the big bang and whatnot?
dodgyviper said:
Electrons losing their spheres of influence is more than 'nothing really', its a breakdown of the electromagnetic force.
Shredding atoms isn't nothing, goddammit it man, its positively fun
You asked me what happens as they passed the EH, and the answer I gave was correct, the shredding happens at the Grav. Singularity, not the EH.Shredding atoms isn't nothing, goddammit it man, its positively fun
It is indeed the disintegration of the EM force, good bit of insight, I just wish I new what it turned into.
GokTweed said:
Gene Vincent said:
GokTweed said:
Gene Vincent said:
They formed from an ordinary (although very large) star collapsing in an already rotating galaxy, they are sometimes at the centre because the centre is the oldest bit of a galaxy, but they don't always form there.
There are singletons but they are rare and still move about a centre of a group or groups of galaxies.
The galaxy groups also move around an ever changing filament which also has a centre of rotation.
Ahhh okay. There are singletons but they are rare and still move about a centre of a group or groups of galaxies.
The galaxy groups also move around an ever changing filament which also has a centre of rotation.
So groups of galaxies move around something as well? is that their collective centre of gravity or something?
and what is a filament?
http://image.dhgate.com/albu_238122788_00/1.0x0.jp...
also why did matter and then galaxies only form on those filaments rather than in a random distribution following the big bang and whatnot?
Dark Matter and Dark Energy and a huge amount of 'empty' space.
The most likely cause was an imbalance caused by DM and DE, which in turn are likely remnants from numerous failed attempts to form a Cosmos prior to the one that worked and caused our existence.
Gene Vincent said:
GokTweed said:
So galaxies exist only on those filament type things? what's in the bit between the filaments? just empty space?
also why did matter and then galaxies only form on those filaments rather than in a random distribution following the big bang and whatnot?
Yes, the visible ones at least.also why did matter and then galaxies only form on those filaments rather than in a random distribution following the big bang and whatnot?
Dark Matter and Dark Energy and a huge amount of 'empty' space.
The most likely cause was an imbalance caused by DM and DE, which in turn are likely remnants from numerous failed attempts to form a Cosmos prior to the one that worked and caused our existence.
This thread might end up as a never ending set of questions from me at this rate but if you can't create or destroy energy etc......then how did the energy that formed all of this mess get here? or will we never know that one?
GokTweed said:
Gene Vincent said:
GokTweed said:
So galaxies exist only on those filament type things? what's in the bit between the filaments? just empty space?
also why did matter and then galaxies only form on those filaments rather than in a random distribution following the big bang and whatnot?
Yes, the visible ones at least.also why did matter and then galaxies only form on those filaments rather than in a random distribution following the big bang and whatnot?
Dark Matter and Dark Energy and a huge amount of 'empty' space.
The most likely cause was an imbalance caused by DM and DE, which in turn are likely remnants from numerous failed attempts to form a Cosmos prior to the one that worked and caused our existence.
This thread might end up as a never ending set of questions from me at this rate but if you can't create or destroy energy etc......then how did the energy that formed all of this mess get here? or will we never know that one?
The reasons that space became lumpy are relatively simple, it is mainly the result of cooling creating tidal currents through a form of convection in the first moments of the Cosmos, after the inflation period and the subsequent release of photons and with that the deceleration and cooling there were lots of tidal effects and these effectively created the equivalent of whirlpools all over the Cosmos and they are the progenitors of the lumpiness and the filamentine manner in which the Cosmos developed. Think of how a Water Spout looks like and that is the filamentine nature of the Cosmos in miniature.
AJI said:
Just trying to sort something out in my head…… how close are the protons, neutrons and electrons within the ‘singularity’ of a black hole?
Assuming the Black Hole Star singularity is not just a simple mathematical expression and is actually something of 3 dimensional size.
First, they are no longer protons, neutrons and electrons, that has been shredded and electromagnetism has been transformed to something else we haven't got a good handle on at all, the most likely candidate in my mind is a form of Gravitational Mono-Polar force.Assuming the Black Hole Star singularity is not just a simple mathematical expression and is actually something of 3 dimensional size.
This needs no space at all, it is not 3 or 4 dimensional but simply an un-allied force.
So, you have first the Event Horizon, then the Star that has collapsed to create that and in the centre of that collapsed star you have the singularity which 'may' be something akin to what I have described above.
In the Star, the P,N and Es get progressively closer until each ones electromagnetic energy starts to strip others in a similar position of this energy.
When you look at the trace of a colliders work it is all externalised, things fly out, the way to see this is like nuclear Fission, pulling apart Plutonium, but we know that we can actually compact Plutonium and that is called Fusion, so inside the BHS there is a sort of fusion going on, but with additional unimaginable gravitation and the energy being transformed into an implosion rather than explosion.
It's not as an illustrative answer I wanted to give but it is the best I can do for the moment.
Going back to the earlier posts regarding Magnetars and our fierce Cosmos, the article below shows another event but much rarer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2108...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2108...
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