Making the desert bloom.
Discussion
Tycho said:
Couldn't you put massive solar farms in the desert to create hydrogen to ship to Europe etc? Surely this would be a better use?
You could be onto something there 
http://phys.org/news/2013-05-morocco-solar-mega-pr...
MartG said:
Tycho said:
Couldn't you put massive solar farms in the desert to create hydrogen to ship to Europe etc? Surely this would be a better use?
If I was an 'Arab oil Sheikh' I'd be pumping money into this as an exit strategy for when the oil runs out Hugo a Gogo said:
MartG said:
Tycho said:
Couldn't you put massive solar farms in the desert to create hydrogen to ship to Europe etc? Surely this would be a better use?
If I was an 'Arab oil Sheikh' I'd be pumping money into this as an exit strategy for when the oil runs out Countdown said:
Ok the real reason is purely selfish - I'm worried about the Chinese cornering the World Weetabix Supply and need a backup plan.
Never mind the end result - I need some practical suggestions on how to increase food supply.
I could murder a doner....
Roads. Never mind the end result - I need some practical suggestions on how to increase food supply.
I could murder a doner....
We actually produce more food in the fields than we need - even in many drought-stricken regions. Unfortunately as much as half of it in third world countries doesn't make it to the table in an edible state. (in 1st world countries we just chuck half of our edible food in the bin instead). Inefficient harvesting; slow, bumpy, meandering roads and weight-limited bridges; the absence of 'cold chains'; waste in small shops; ignorance of market demand in a different town down the road; the dumping of first world excess production on third world markets under the pretence of 'aid'- all contribute to avoidable food shortages.
Roads, warehouses, ports, refrigeration, links to markets and eliminating trade barriers - anything that enables food to be moved to where it is needed quickly and efficiently while maintaining quality. That's what we need most.
Heck, putting Tesco in charge of the global food supply chain would do more to alleviate world hunger than any measure proposed by your average 'aid charity' campaigner.
MartG said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
MartG said:
Tycho said:
Couldn't you put massive solar farms in the desert to create hydrogen to ship to Europe etc? Surely this would be a better use?
If I was an 'Arab oil Sheikh' I'd be pumping money into this as an exit strategy for when the oil runs out Aluminium smelting takes s
tloads of raw materialsthey do use geothermic energy for that in Iceland
ninja-lewis said:
Roads.
We actually produce more food in the fields than we need - even in many drought-stricken regions. Unfortunately as much as half of it in third world countries doesn't make it to the table in an edible state. (in 1st world countries we just chuck half of our edible food in the bin instead). Inefficient harvesting; slow, bumpy, meandering roads and weight-limited bridges; the absence of 'cold chains'; waste in small shops; ignorance of market demand in a different town down the road; the dumping of first world excess production on third world markets under the pretence of 'aid'- all contribute to avoidable food shortages.
Roads, warehouses, ports, refrigeration, links to markets and eliminating trade barriers - anything that enables food to be moved to where it is needed quickly and efficiently while maintaining quality. That's what we need most.
Heck, putting Tesco in charge of the global food supply chain would do more to alleviate world hunger than any measure proposed by your average 'aid charity' campaigner.
Never thought of it that way but you may have a point.We actually produce more food in the fields than we need - even in many drought-stricken regions. Unfortunately as much as half of it in third world countries doesn't make it to the table in an edible state. (in 1st world countries we just chuck half of our edible food in the bin instead). Inefficient harvesting; slow, bumpy, meandering roads and weight-limited bridges; the absence of 'cold chains'; waste in small shops; ignorance of market demand in a different town down the road; the dumping of first world excess production on third world markets under the pretence of 'aid'- all contribute to avoidable food shortages.
Roads, warehouses, ports, refrigeration, links to markets and eliminating trade barriers - anything that enables food to be moved to where it is needed quickly and efficiently while maintaining quality. That's what we need most.
Heck, putting Tesco in charge of the global food supply chain would do more to alleviate world hunger than any measure proposed by your average 'aid charity' campaigner.
I guess my original question was more from a scientific point of view; what factors need to be in plac to make the desert fertile?
Soil?
Water?
Anything else?
Countdown said:
I guess my original question was more from a scientific point of view; what factors need to be in plac to make the desert fertile?
Soil?
Water?
Anything else?
Soil is a combination of many things - sand, clay, silt, nutrients, trace elements, humus and a whole ecosystem of microrganisms. So you can bung a gro-bag in the desert, and water it, and grow a plant (if temp and humidity are right), but it's not sustainable - the soil structure must be maintained. And unless you're going to provide shelter from the heat, you'll only be growing dates Soil?
Water?
Anything else?
You'd need a gradual process to create viable soil. For example, first get some hardy grass established to stabilise the sand ( there are some who reckon that goats grazing caused some deserts in the first place by cropping grass too short ), then gradually build up the layers of soil by depositing organic matter ( you know what I mean ) onto the grass
) onto the grass
Countdown said:
davepoth said:
Your money would be better spent on making the Sahara reflective - doing so would increase the albedo, bouncing a lot of the sun's energy back into space. Enough of that and the poles would get bigger, further increasing the albedo and causing an ice age. Then the Sahara would be just about right for farming.
But surely increasing the size of the Poles would reduce the amount of land available for farming in Siberia, Canada etc ?MartG said:
You'd need a gradual process to create viable soil. For example, first get some hardy grass established to stabilise the sand ( there are some who reckon that goats grazing caused some deserts in the first place by cropping grass too short ), then gradually build up the layers of soil by depositing organic matter ( you know what I mean ) onto the grass
Would dumping sufficient organic matter stimulate plant growth? ) onto the grassIm just thinking of the amount of organic waste we produce and wondering whether this could be effectively recycled
dirty boy said:
Slightly OT, but wasn't there a wealthy Arab type bloke in the late 70s early 80s who thought that if he planted thousands of trees he could create a rain forest and tried and failed?
What he and the OP are not seeing is that every area of Earth has its own natural climate - temperature, insolation (amount of sun), humidity, wind, soil/lack of. That controls what grows or doesn't grow there. Whatever you plant, nature will try to turn it back to what it was. That's why it was what it was in the first place - the natural conclusion of ecological succession. In this country you can go, with time, from sand to grass to scrub to small trees to deciduous forest, as that is our natural fauna. Do it in Brazil and you'll get tropical rain forest; do it in the Sahara and you'll get sand. The exception is when what you do changes the local climate, but that's a massive undertaking.
Here's an idea.
Frack the crap out of the NW of England, build big CCGT power plants, use the waste exhaust gasses (lots of lovely CO2 and Heat left over) pump it into giant hydroponic green houses (thus employing the skills of the local idle classes) and grow lots of food. At the same time use all that cheap energy to start "making stuff" again and reboot our knackered economy. Then stick two fingers up at the EU and charge them a fortune for the 'leccy they have buy from us when Putin finds a better buyer for his gas and the wind stops blowing.
Frack the crap out of the NW of England, build big CCGT power plants, use the waste exhaust gasses (lots of lovely CO2 and Heat left over) pump it into giant hydroponic green houses (thus employing the skills of the local idle classes) and grow lots of food. At the same time use all that cheap energy to start "making stuff" again and reboot our knackered economy. Then stick two fingers up at the EU and charge them a fortune for the 'leccy they have buy from us when Putin finds a better buyer for his gas and the wind stops blowing.
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