What if we'd never had fossil fuels?
Discussion
TransverseTight said:
I once did some reading up the amount of fossil fuels we burn each year is equivalent to 13,000 times the annual bio mass growth. Thats why really I think the sooner we can get to alternatives the better. It wont last forever. Im not really bothered is the alternatives are syntheitic fuels of cars with an on board fusion reactor, but they need to be fast.
CO2 doesnt really come into it. Yes its gonna make the planet hotter and screw up a lot of peoples lives, but the more pressing issue is what will the cost of fuel be in 10 years time. Climate change is an issue for the next 20-100 years,
If there had been no fossil fuels and [EricMc] the world could have actually formed in its present state - which it couldn't - and there could have been life at all, which obviously there couldn't have been [/EricMc] then the world would still be a lovely, temperate one with a stable and life enriching climate controlled by nature. Without the current climate chaos and spectre of disastrous man made global warming. CO2 doesnt really come into it. Yes its gonna make the planet hotter and screw up a lot of peoples lives, but the more pressing issue is what will the cost of fuel be in 10 years time. Climate change is an issue for the next 20-100 years,
Hundreds of thousands would not have died due to otherwise non-happening extreme weather events such as Katrina.
Africans and others wouldn't now be perishing through extreme, unsustainable heat.
Millions would not be facing the uncertain future presented by dangerous sea level rise, the submerging of island nations, the desertification of once green and pleasant environments, crop failure, mass starvation and the looming water wars.
And thousands of species such as the iconic polar bear would not be battling certain extinction.
All so we can drive to the shops, watch TV and fly off on holiday. Fossil fuels have been a tragedy.
otolith said:
We might conceivably have had a world without fossil fuels if a bunch of early Abrahamic god-botherers had decided that using them was a sin. You don't need to postulate a world in which they don't exist, just one in which we don't use them.
You mean Al Gore and his disciples don't you?SkepticSteve said:
There are a few rather arrogant and blinkered views being put forward about oil. IMHO
So I am going to state this as arrogant fact.
Only a very small amount of oil is dino juice.
The vast majority is produced naturally deep inside the Earth's crust.
The processes involved have been put forward by eminent Russian Scientists.
The huge pressure and heat "reforms" the abundant feedstock elements into Hydrocarbons.
There you go, it is totally natural and is replenishing itself all the time.
So without FOSSIL FUELS, we would still have Hydrocarbon Liquids and Natural Gas.
LOL. There's also some theories stated as fact that a bloke got reincarnated. I think more people believe that than oil is a self replenishing process.So I am going to state this as arrogant fact.
Only a very small amount of oil is dino juice.
The vast majority is produced naturally deep inside the Earth's crust.
The processes involved have been put forward by eminent Russian Scientists.
The huge pressure and heat "reforms" the abundant feedstock elements into Hydrocarbons.
There you go, it is totally natural and is replenishing itself all the time.
So without FOSSIL FUELS, we would still have Hydrocarbon Liquids and Natural Gas.
I've looked into the deep oil theories, my questions is always... what's the feed stock to replenish it? I think all they've discovered is oil that's deeper than though previously recoverable, but due to the high cost of oil it's now economic to drill that deep. 18,000 ft or thereabout IIRC correctly. Forgive me it's been 5 years since I looked at this in any detail - but unless anything new has turned up to support - that it's not made from squashed sea creatures then I'm happy to stick with "it's conventional oil, but deeper".
AnonSpoilSport said:
TransverseTight said:
I once did some reading up the amount of fossil fuels we burn each year is equivalent to 13,000 times the annual bio mass growth. Thats why really I think the sooner we can get to alternatives the better. It wont last forever. Im not really bothered is the alternatives are syntheitic fuels of cars with an on board fusion reactor, but they need to be fast.
CO2 doesnt really come into it. Yes its gonna make the planet hotter and screw up a lot of peoples lives, but the more pressing issue is what will the cost of fuel be in 10 years time. Climate change is an issue for the next 20-100 years,
If there had been no fossil fuels and [EricMc] the world could have actually formed in its present state - which it couldn't - and there could have been life at all, which obviously there couldn't have been [/EricMc] then the world would still be a lovely, temperate one with a stable and life enriching climate controlled by nature. Without the current climate chaos and spectre of disastrous man made global warming. CO2 doesnt really come into it. Yes its gonna make the planet hotter and screw up a lot of peoples lives, but the more pressing issue is what will the cost of fuel be in 10 years time. Climate change is an issue for the next 20-100 years,
Hundreds of thousands would not have died due to otherwise non-happening extreme weather events such as Katrina.
Africans and others wouldn't now be perishing through extreme, unsustainable heat.
Millions would not be facing the uncertain future presented by dangerous sea level rise, the submerging of island nations, the desertification of once green and pleasant environments, crop failure, mass starvation and the looming water wars.
And thousands of species such as the iconic polar bear would not be battling certain extinction.
All so we can drive to the shops, watch TV and fly off on holiday. Fossil fuels have been a tragedy.
Eric Mc said:
Simpo Two said:
Spot on mate. We'd all me living in a land of lush green rolling plains and wafting breezes and clear blue lakes and beautiful people wandering about in togas eating grapes.
That reminds me, I must watch "The Time Machine" again.Sans the cars, and the polar bears. Otherwise...
TransverseTight said:
LOL. There's also some theories stated as fact that a bloke got reincarnated. I think more people believe that than oil is a self replenishing process.
I've looked into the deep oil theories, my questions is always... what's the feed stock to replenish it? I think all they've discovered is oil that's deeper than though previously recoverable, but due to the high cost of oil it's now economic to drill that deep. 18,000 ft or thereabout IIRC correctly. Forgive me it's been 5 years since I looked at this in any detail - but unless anything new has turned up to support - that it's not made from squashed sea creatures then I'm happy to stick with "it's conventional oil, but deeper".
Once you have a sample of he oil it will be very as to tell if it came from dead stuff that was once alive or was made by a geological process. I've looked into the deep oil theories, my questions is always... what's the feed stock to replenish it? I think all they've discovered is oil that's deeper than though previously recoverable, but due to the high cost of oil it's now economic to drill that deep. 18,000 ft or thereabout IIRC correctly. Forgive me it's been 5 years since I looked at this in any detail - but unless anything new has turned up to support - that it's not made from squashed sea creatures then I'm happy to stick with "it's conventional oil, but deeper".
AnonSpoilSport said:
Sans the cars, and the polar bears. Otherwise...
AnonSpoilSport said:
Just watched it on the planner and fully agree. One of the best I've seen - awesome cars, beautiful photography, really unusual locations/turns of event and some good humour. Had me grinning (at the cars and the stunts/gags) throughout. Last ones I liked as much were the road trip to America in the GT3, Merc and Ferrari, and the Italian stuff including those wonderful laps of Monza in the Lamborghini.
?Simpo Two said:
AnonSpoilSport said:
Sans the cars, and the polar bears. Otherwise...
AnonSpoilSport said:
Just watched it on the planner and fully agree. One of the best I've seen - awesome cars, beautiful photography, really unusual locations/turns of event and some good humour. Had me grinning (at the cars and the stunts/gags) throughout. Last ones I liked as much were the road trip to America in the GT3, Merc and Ferrari, and the Italian stuff including those wonderful laps of Monza in the Lamborghini.
?Not a clue What your post means (well suspect I do but want you to confirm before committing!) Surrey is God's place and the most very beautiful and unspoilt in CreationTm true, but I didn't muddle it with West Virginia, honest.
ds.SkepticSteve said:
There are a few rather arrogant and blinkered views being put forward about oil. IMHO
So I am going to state this as arrogant fact.
Only a very small amount of oil is dino juice.
The vast majority is produced naturally deep inside the Earth's crust.
The processes involved have been put forward by eminent Russian Scientists.
The huge pressure and heat "reforms" the abundant feedstock elements into Hydrocarbons.
There you go, it is totally natural and is replenishing itself all the time.
So without FOSSIL FUELS, we would still have Hydrocarbon Liquids and Natural Gas.
Abiotic oil, the preserve of young Earth creationists and other notable crackpots.So I am going to state this as arrogant fact.
Only a very small amount of oil is dino juice.
The vast majority is produced naturally deep inside the Earth's crust.
The processes involved have been put forward by eminent Russian Scientists.
The huge pressure and heat "reforms" the abundant feedstock elements into Hydrocarbons.
There you go, it is totally natural and is replenishing itself all the time.
So without FOSSIL FUELS, we would still have Hydrocarbon Liquids and Natural Gas.
Simpo Two said:
AnonSpoilSport said:
Er, I match your ? and raise you ??
I was trying to find out what you really thought and whether you were just posting for effect.There are two doors, 'exit' and 'nutters'. Take the latter 
(Oddly enough the BBC has stopped bringing in climate change every time it rains, or the sun comes out, or when it's a bit chilly. Maybe they realised their credibility was at stake. But when they were the Blair Broadcasting Company they had to be 'on-message'. 'It's all about social change' as the clever socialist said)
And if the climate is changing, there's Jack Schitt we can do about it so you may as well sit back and enjoy the ride. A few Brits using their carrier bags twice is not going to save your polar bears.
But this debate is in the wrong thread. This thread is 'What if we'd never had fossil fuels?'
(Oddly enough the BBC has stopped bringing in climate change every time it rains, or the sun comes out, or when it's a bit chilly. Maybe they realised their credibility was at stake. But when they were the Blair Broadcasting Company they had to be 'on-message'. 'It's all about social change' as the clever socialist said)
And if the climate is changing, there's Jack Schitt we can do about it so you may as well sit back and enjoy the ride. A few Brits using their carrier bags twice is not going to save your polar bears.
But this debate is in the wrong thread. This thread is 'What if we'd never had fossil fuels?'
Eric Mc said:
Does a lightening strike make the struck item lighter?
If so, how?
Typo Eric, typo. Funny someone so un-pedantic as your good-self should have spotted it though.If so, how?
You're up one now, but given the drivel you regularly post - including turgidly on this very thread - I suspect revenge could come soon!
Gassing Station | Science! | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff