SpaceX Tuesday...
Discussion
They've got SN5 up on jack stands so they can fold the legs out of the way:
These are the version 0.9 legs apparently.
Eventually it'll have legs similar to Falcon 9, but with self leveling capability.
Meanwhile the Dragon capsule is about to arrive at Port Canaveral on the recovery ship.
These are the version 0.9 legs apparently.
Eventually it'll have legs similar to Falcon 9, but with self leveling capability.
Meanwhile the Dragon capsule is about to arrive at Port Canaveral on the recovery ship.
Eric Mc said:
These launches are becoming so "routine" that they are beginning to become non-newsworthy. Of course, this launch suffered multiple delays so was anything but routine.
If any of us had bothered to get up early this morning, would we have sen the top stage and satellites pass over the UK?
In many respects I suppose it's good that they are routine, and there is Starship progress to make the news. If any of us had bothered to get up early this morning, would we have sen the top stage and satellites pass over the UK?
Worth considering that of the proposals funded by NASA for the Artemis lander, the Starship offer is by an order of magnitude the most ambitious but is also the first to fly actual hardware. There has to be an irony in there.
I can almost see it now, in 2024 SpaceX drop off the other two landers at the moon; "We were on our way to Mars so it wasn't too much of a diversion to give you lift fellas".
SpaceX and ULA have won launch contracts from the US Air Force worth $653 million starting from 2022 and running until 2027. The contract split is 60/40 in favour of ULA and will amount to about 34 launches.
The award covers launches not just for the Air Force, but for other, national security payloads. So expect to see a huge mobile service tower being constructed at pad 39a before long. That’ll allow them to integrate payloads vertically, which is a requirement with certain satellites (I.e. ones with big mirrors).
ULA will be using their new Vulcan rocket by then. Just in time, as after 2022, the Department of Defence is banned from buying flights on Atlas V because it has a Russian-built main engine.
Northrop Grumman and Blue Origin failed to win anything.
The award covers launches not just for the Air Force, but for other, national security payloads. So expect to see a huge mobile service tower being constructed at pad 39a before long. That’ll allow them to integrate payloads vertically, which is a requirement with certain satellites (I.e. ones with big mirrors).
ULA will be using their new Vulcan rocket by then. Just in time, as after 2022, the Department of Defence is banned from buying flights on Atlas V because it has a Russian-built main engine.
Northrop Grumman and Blue Origin failed to win anything.
Well who knows how far along they are with that, as they're super secretive. 2022 at the earliest maybe.
They're still working hard on converting Pad 36 at Cape Canaveral for New Glenn. Until that's done they're not flying anything.
That was taken a few days ago. Looks like a fixed service tower on the left they're topping out.
Their BE-4 engine is probably going to fly on the ULA Vulcan rocket next year, before it does on New Glenn.
Bezos sold off $3.1 billion of Amazon stock the other day to fund Blue Origin. So he's serious about it.
Here's some photos of their landing ship being worked on too:
https://www.kylemphoto.com/Galleries/BlueOriginLPV...
They're still working hard on converting Pad 36 at Cape Canaveral for New Glenn. Until that's done they're not flying anything.
That was taken a few days ago. Looks like a fixed service tower on the left they're topping out.
Their BE-4 engine is probably going to fly on the ULA Vulcan rocket next year, before it does on New Glenn.
Bezos sold off $3.1 billion of Amazon stock the other day to fund Blue Origin. So he's serious about it.
Here's some photos of their landing ship being worked on too:
https://www.kylemphoto.com/Galleries/BlueOriginLPV...
Beati Dogu said:
Bezos sold off $3.1 billion of Amazon stock the other day to fund Blue Origin. So he's serious about it.
$3.1 billion? How much has SpaceX pulled in funding since inception, to get the point where it has flown 3 types of Rocket, two types of capsule and prototypes of a fourth?Never mind- I did some googling and the Falcon 1 and Falcon 9 cost $390 million in total.
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Sec...
After that it's harder to say since once they were launching commercial payloads it becomes to an extent self-funding.
But Bezos needs to negotiate harder with his Blue Origin team, I think!
Is there a risk that Blue Origin and New Glenn could fall too far behind the race to ever become a reality, or end up just being used for "tourism" type stuff?
If you have a proven delivery service with SpaceX that is already as cheap as it's likely to get for the foreseeable, why take the risk with an unproven system, even if the costs are similar?
I like the fact that we are starting to see what could become a real civil owned commercial space race, but there's always the chance that Bezos is now too late to the party.
If you have a proven delivery service with SpaceX that is already as cheap as it's likely to get for the foreseeable, why take the risk with an unproven system, even if the costs are similar?
I like the fact that we are starting to see what could become a real civil owned commercial space race, but there's always the chance that Bezos is now too late to the party.
The Rotrex Kid said:
Imagine if they lost the ego from the battle and combined forces (and cash), we'd be on Mars by spring.
Musk is the one keen to get to Mars, if they combined forces he'd likely have to negotiate and argue for the Mars adventure. Also if there is no competition you get the likes of ULA. Did you see the calculation Nasa did for how much Falcon 9 would have cost under the "old way"? It was several billion pounds ...Bezos is also keen on space travel and colonisation. It was the subject of a high school speech apparently. Blue Origin was founded two years before SpaceX let's not forget. Bezos is more keen on setting up colonies on the Moon first, whereas Elon wants to go to Mars ASAP.
Although Blue Origin hasn't launched a single thing into orbit yet, they can't be dismissed that easily with the resources they have. For all we know they'll have a New Glenn ready to roll out to their new pad once it's completed. They've got a factory to make them nearby and have recently opened another factory to make the main engines for themselves and ULA's Vulcan. I'm sure when we see some actual hardware, it'll be quite impressive. Whether they can nail the landings without nailing their landing ship first is another matter.
Although Blue Origin hasn't launched a single thing into orbit yet, they can't be dismissed that easily with the resources they have. For all we know they'll have a New Glenn ready to roll out to their new pad once it's completed. They've got a factory to make them nearby and have recently opened another factory to make the main engines for themselves and ULA's Vulcan. I'm sure when we see some actual hardware, it'll be quite impressive. Whether they can nail the landings without nailing their landing ship first is another matter.
I am fearful that Bezos, not being an engineer, ‘outsourced’ the management of his space programme and hence has a bunch of ‘old space’ guys who are doing the same as they would have done at Boeing, NASA etc. Lots of PowerPoints and talking, not a lot of action. Having been founded two years before SpaceX and yet to orbit a payload speaks to ‘old space’. Falcon 1 was launched (successfully) to orbit in 2008, six years after founding. Three times as long and Blue Origin have a few sub orbital hops under their belt.
Beati Dogu said:
Bezos isn't the most appealing person I can think of either, especially with that Lex Luthor look he's sporting these days.
Musk isn’t exactly appealing either though is he?I’d be cautious about writing Bezos off. Completely out of the blue you’ll find an Amazon flag on the Moon. No fanfare, just done.
Beati Dogu said:
Yeah, there's quite a performance hit if they save fuel for a return to launch site landing.
The heaviest declared payload they've done with a ground landing was, I believe, the Boeing X-37 space plane, which was about 5 tonnes to low earth orbit. Whereas for ship landings, a typical Starlink flight to low earth orbit is around 15.6 tonnes.
So they'll use a ground landing if they can (like Cargo Dragon flights to the ISS), but for performance reasons they are rarely able to (like the much heavier Crew Dragon flights to the ISS).
Max payload is around 10,500kg for RTLS recovery. The heaviest thing that have launched is a Dragon capsule with around 3.5 tonnes of payload plus the Dragon itself at about 5.5 tonnes.The heaviest declared payload they've done with a ground landing was, I believe, the Boeing X-37 space plane, which was about 5 tonnes to low earth orbit. Whereas for ship landings, a typical Starlink flight to low earth orbit is around 15.6 tonnes.
So they'll use a ground landing if they can (like Cargo Dragon flights to the ISS), but for performance reasons they are rarely able to (like the much heavier Crew Dragon flights to the ISS).
I suspect that the Dragon 2 with a light payload would be able to sneak under 10,500kg, however the principal reason why they went with a droneship is the trajectory.
To do an RTLS they send the rocket in a high trajectory to minimise the amount of velocity they need to cancel to return to the launch site. This would result in some pretty sketchy aborts for a manned vehicle. This is also the reason why Boeing is using a twin engine centaur.
Yes, to deal with certain abort scenarios, they need to have whatever capsule they're using come down at a shallow angle, to ensure it has the maximum amount of atmosphere to aerobrake into. One of the abort recovery areas being off western Ireland as I recall. If it came pretty much straight down, it wouldn't be able to reduce speed enough for the parachutes to work.
Meanwhile, at Boca Chica, SN5 (left) has been moved back to the assembly area, next to SN6.
- BocaChicaGal
"SN7 will be new alloy test tank taken to burst pressure. SN8 will have body flaps & nosecone." - Elon
Meanwhile, at Boca Chica, SN5 (left) has been moved back to the assembly area, next to SN6.
- BocaChicaGal
"SN7 will be new alloy test tank taken to burst pressure. SN8 will have body flaps & nosecone." - Elon
Edited by Beati Dogu on Wednesday 12th August 00:24
Leithen said:
Beati Dogu said:
Bezos isn't the most appealing person I can think of either, especially with that Lex Luthor look he's sporting these days.
Musk isn’t exactly appealing either though is he?I’d be cautious about writing Bezos off. Completely out of the blue you’ll find an Amazon flag on the Moon. No fanfare, just done.
“We tried to deliver your flag but there was no one home”
Yeah, there was no fence to throw it over, so the just left a note.
SN6 is now out at the launch area and they'll soon be preparing it for pressure tests. It it passes, they attach a Raptor engine and go flying again.
The plan seems to be to use SN5 & SN6 for more 150 meter (~500 ft) hops to perfect those and test the ground support equipment.
SN7 will go bang as they test it to destruction.
SN8 will get the nose, wings and other control surfaces to go much higher (~66,000 ft / 20 Km) for a skydiver-like reentry and powered landing.
SN6 is now out at the launch area and they'll soon be preparing it for pressure tests. It it passes, they attach a Raptor engine and go flying again.
The plan seems to be to use SN5 & SN6 for more 150 meter (~500 ft) hops to perfect those and test the ground support equipment.
SN7 will go bang as they test it to destruction.
SN8 will get the nose, wings and other control surfaces to go much higher (~66,000 ft / 20 Km) for a skydiver-like reentry and powered landing.
Beati Dogu said:
Yeah, there was no fence to throw it over, so the just left a note.
SN6 is now out at the launch area and they'll soon be preparing it for pressure tests. It it passes, they attach a Raptor engine and go flying again.
The plan seems to be to use SN5 & SN6 for more 150 meter (~500 ft) hops to perfect those and test the ground support equipment.
SN7 will go bang as they test it to destruction.
SN8 will get the nose, wings and other control surfaces to go much higher (~66,000 ft / 20 Km) for a skydiver-like reentry and powered landing.
Now that will be something to see! I'm determined to go to FL for the inaugral flight of Starship when it does the full flight.SN6 is now out at the launch area and they'll soon be preparing it for pressure tests. It it passes, they attach a Raptor engine and go flying again.
The plan seems to be to use SN5 & SN6 for more 150 meter (~500 ft) hops to perfect those and test the ground support equipment.
SN7 will go bang as they test it to destruction.
SN8 will get the nose, wings and other control surfaces to go much higher (~66,000 ft / 20 Km) for a skydiver-like reentry and powered landing.
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