Climate Change - The Scientific Debate (Vol. II)
Discussion
STR160 said:
Gadgetmac said:
Sadly the science is all but settled.
The science is effectively settled bar the fine tuning.
Make your mind up. It is or isn't settled. 99.99999999% isn't "fully settled". All but/nearly/close means that everything is still game and open to be radically changed.The science is effectively settled bar the fine tuning.
Climate change is real, and always has been. Myself and others are not so religiously fanatical about the impending catastrophe that you so clearly are.
Interesting piece on the recent cold that's been experienced in Europe and the US. This time I have cherry picked a couple of paragraphs for a change as some are at the very bottom of the article and I can't copy it all due to PH rules. However the whole article is at the link.
Explainer: Topsy-turvy weather comes from polar vortex
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-topsy-turvy-weather-...
Extract(s):
It's as if the world has been turned upside-down, or at least its weather. You can blame the increasingly familiar polar vortex, which has brought a taste of the Arctic to places where winter often requires no more than a jacket.
Around the North Pole, winter's ultra-cold air is usually kept bottled up 15 to 30 miles high. That's the polar vortex, which spins like a whirling top at the top of the planet. But occasionally something slams against the top, sending the cold air escaping from its Arctic home and heading south. It's been happening more often, and scientists are still not completely sure why, but they suggest it's a mix of natural random weather and human-caused climate change.
RECORD COLD IN WARMER PLACES
Record subzero temperatures in Texas and Oklahoma knocked millions off the power grid and into deep freezes. A deadly tornado hit North Carolina. Other parts of the South saw thunder snow and reports of something that seemed like a snow tornado but wasn't. Snow fell hard not just in Chicago, but in Greece and Turkey, where it's far less normal. Record cold also hit Europe this winter, earning the name the "Beast from the East."
"We've had everything you could possibly think of in the past week," said Northern Illinois University meteorology professor Victor Gensini, noting that parts of the U.S. have been 50 degrees (28 degrees Celsius) colder than normal. "It's been a wild ride."
It was warmer Tuesday in parts of Greenland, Alaska, Norway and Sweden than in Texas and Oklahoma. And somehow people in South Florida have been complaining about record warmth that is causing plants to bloom early.
There have been record subzero temperatures in Texas and Oklahoma, and Greenland is warmer than normal. Snow fell in Greece and Turkey. Meteorologists blame the all-too-familiar polar vortex. (Delcia Lopez/The Monitor via AP)
In the eastern Greenland town of Tasiilaq, it's been about 18 degrees (10 degrees Celsius) warmer than normal, which "is a bit of a nuisance," said Lars Rasmussen, a museum curator at the local cultural center. "The warm weather makes dog sledding and driving on snow scooters a bit of a hassle."
Several meteorologists squarely blamed the polar vortex breakdown or disruption.
These used to happen once every other year or so, but research shows they are now close to happening yearly, if not more, said Judah Cohen, a winter storm expert for Atmospheric Environmental Research, a commercial firm outside of Boston.
THE SPINNING TOP GETS TOPPLED
The polar vortex spends winter in its normal place until an atmospheric wave—the type that brings weather patterns here and there—slams into it. Normally such waves don't do much to the strong vortex, but occasionally the wave has enough energy to push the spinning top over, and that's when the frigid air breaks loose, Gensini said.
A man walks at Filopapos hill as snow falls, with the ancient Acropolis hill and the Parthenon temple, in background, Athens, on Tuesday, Feb. 16, 2021. There have been record subzero temperatures in Texas and Oklahoma, and Greenland is warmer than normal. Snow fell in Greece and Turkey. Meteorologists blame the all-too-familiar polar vortex. (AP Photo/Petros Giannakouris)
Sometimes, the cold air mass splits into chunks—an event that usually is connected to big snowstorms in the U.S. East, like a few weeks ago. Other times, it just moves to a new place, which often means bitter cold in parts of Europe. This time it did both, Cohen said.
There was a split of the vortex in early January and another in mid-January. Then at the end of January came the displacement that caused cold air to spill into Europe and much of the United States, Cohen said.
Both Cohen and Francis said this should be considered not one but three polar vortex disruptions, though some scientists lump it all together.
While both the vortex and the wave that bumped it are natural, and polar vortex breakdowns happen naturally, there is likely an element of climate change at work, but it is not a sure thing that science agrees on, Cohen, Gensini and Francis said.
Ivan Gonzales, left, works with his brother-in-law Gabriel Martinez to assist a motorist using a carpet up a hill along the snow-covered Cherrywood Road in Austin, Texas, on Tuesday, Feb. 16, 2021. There have been record subzero temperatures in Texas and Oklahoma, and Greenland is warmer than normal. Snow fell in Greece and Turkey. Meteorologists blame the all-too-familiar polar vortex. (Bronte Wittpenn/Austin American-Statesman via AP)
Warming in the Arctic, with shrinking sea ice, is goosing the atmospheric wave in two places, giving it more energy when it strikes the polar vortex, making it more likely to disrupt the vortex, Cohen said.
"There is evidence that climate change can weaken the polar vortex, which allows more chances for frigid Arctic air to ooze into the Lower 48," said University of Georgia meteorology professor Marshall Shepherd.
PATTERN HAS BEEN OBSERVED FOR DECADES
There were strong polar vortex disruptions and cold outbreaks like this in the 1980s, Cohen said.
"I think it's historic and generational," Cohen said. "I don't think it's unprecedented. This Arctic outbreak has to be thought of in context. The globe is much warmer than it used to be."
It also feels colder because just before the outbreak, much of the United States was experiencing a milder-than-normal winter, with the ground not even frozen on Christmas Day in Chicago, Gensini said.
There have been record subzero temperatures in Texas and Oklahoma, and Greenland is warmer than normal. Snow fell in Greece and Turkey. Meteorologists blame the all-too-familiar polar vortex. (Jay Janner /Austin American-Statesman via AP)
The globe as a whole is about the same temperature as the average was from 1979 to 2000 for this time of year, according to the University of Maine's Climate Reanalyzer. That's still warmer than the 20th century average, and scientists don't think that this month has much of a chance to be colder than the 20th century average for the globe, something that hasn't happened since the early 1980s.
One reason is that it will soon warm back up to normal when the polar vortex returns to its regular home, Cohen said.
As for people thinking this cold outbreak disproves global warming, scientists say that's definitely not so.
Even with climate change, "we'll still have winter," said North Carolina state climatologist Kathie Dello. "What we're seeing here is we're pretty unprepared for almost every type of extreme weather. It's pretty sad."
Explainer: Topsy-turvy weather comes from polar vortex
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-topsy-turvy-weather-...
Extract(s):
It's as if the world has been turned upside-down, or at least its weather. You can blame the increasingly familiar polar vortex, which has brought a taste of the Arctic to places where winter often requires no more than a jacket.
Around the North Pole, winter's ultra-cold air is usually kept bottled up 15 to 30 miles high. That's the polar vortex, which spins like a whirling top at the top of the planet. But occasionally something slams against the top, sending the cold air escaping from its Arctic home and heading south. It's been happening more often, and scientists are still not completely sure why, but they suggest it's a mix of natural random weather and human-caused climate change.
RECORD COLD IN WARMER PLACES
Record subzero temperatures in Texas and Oklahoma knocked millions off the power grid and into deep freezes. A deadly tornado hit North Carolina. Other parts of the South saw thunder snow and reports of something that seemed like a snow tornado but wasn't. Snow fell hard not just in Chicago, but in Greece and Turkey, where it's far less normal. Record cold also hit Europe this winter, earning the name the "Beast from the East."
"We've had everything you could possibly think of in the past week," said Northern Illinois University meteorology professor Victor Gensini, noting that parts of the U.S. have been 50 degrees (28 degrees Celsius) colder than normal. "It's been a wild ride."
It was warmer Tuesday in parts of Greenland, Alaska, Norway and Sweden than in Texas and Oklahoma. And somehow people in South Florida have been complaining about record warmth that is causing plants to bloom early.
There have been record subzero temperatures in Texas and Oklahoma, and Greenland is warmer than normal. Snow fell in Greece and Turkey. Meteorologists blame the all-too-familiar polar vortex. (Delcia Lopez/The Monitor via AP)
In the eastern Greenland town of Tasiilaq, it's been about 18 degrees (10 degrees Celsius) warmer than normal, which "is a bit of a nuisance," said Lars Rasmussen, a museum curator at the local cultural center. "The warm weather makes dog sledding and driving on snow scooters a bit of a hassle."
Several meteorologists squarely blamed the polar vortex breakdown or disruption.
These used to happen once every other year or so, but research shows they are now close to happening yearly, if not more, said Judah Cohen, a winter storm expert for Atmospheric Environmental Research, a commercial firm outside of Boston.
THE SPINNING TOP GETS TOPPLED
The polar vortex spends winter in its normal place until an atmospheric wave—the type that brings weather patterns here and there—slams into it. Normally such waves don't do much to the strong vortex, but occasionally the wave has enough energy to push the spinning top over, and that's when the frigid air breaks loose, Gensini said.
A man walks at Filopapos hill as snow falls, with the ancient Acropolis hill and the Parthenon temple, in background, Athens, on Tuesday, Feb. 16, 2021. There have been record subzero temperatures in Texas and Oklahoma, and Greenland is warmer than normal. Snow fell in Greece and Turkey. Meteorologists blame the all-too-familiar polar vortex. (AP Photo/Petros Giannakouris)
Sometimes, the cold air mass splits into chunks—an event that usually is connected to big snowstorms in the U.S. East, like a few weeks ago. Other times, it just moves to a new place, which often means bitter cold in parts of Europe. This time it did both, Cohen said.
There was a split of the vortex in early January and another in mid-January. Then at the end of January came the displacement that caused cold air to spill into Europe and much of the United States, Cohen said.
Both Cohen and Francis said this should be considered not one but three polar vortex disruptions, though some scientists lump it all together.
While both the vortex and the wave that bumped it are natural, and polar vortex breakdowns happen naturally, there is likely an element of climate change at work, but it is not a sure thing that science agrees on, Cohen, Gensini and Francis said.
Ivan Gonzales, left, works with his brother-in-law Gabriel Martinez to assist a motorist using a carpet up a hill along the snow-covered Cherrywood Road in Austin, Texas, on Tuesday, Feb. 16, 2021. There have been record subzero temperatures in Texas and Oklahoma, and Greenland is warmer than normal. Snow fell in Greece and Turkey. Meteorologists blame the all-too-familiar polar vortex. (Bronte Wittpenn/Austin American-Statesman via AP)
Warming in the Arctic, with shrinking sea ice, is goosing the atmospheric wave in two places, giving it more energy when it strikes the polar vortex, making it more likely to disrupt the vortex, Cohen said.
"There is evidence that climate change can weaken the polar vortex, which allows more chances for frigid Arctic air to ooze into the Lower 48," said University of Georgia meteorology professor Marshall Shepherd.
PATTERN HAS BEEN OBSERVED FOR DECADES
There were strong polar vortex disruptions and cold outbreaks like this in the 1980s, Cohen said.
"I think it's historic and generational," Cohen said. "I don't think it's unprecedented. This Arctic outbreak has to be thought of in context. The globe is much warmer than it used to be."
It also feels colder because just before the outbreak, much of the United States was experiencing a milder-than-normal winter, with the ground not even frozen on Christmas Day in Chicago, Gensini said.
There have been record subzero temperatures in Texas and Oklahoma, and Greenland is warmer than normal. Snow fell in Greece and Turkey. Meteorologists blame the all-too-familiar polar vortex. (Jay Janner /Austin American-Statesman via AP)
The globe as a whole is about the same temperature as the average was from 1979 to 2000 for this time of year, according to the University of Maine's Climate Reanalyzer. That's still warmer than the 20th century average, and scientists don't think that this month has much of a chance to be colder than the 20th century average for the globe, something that hasn't happened since the early 1980s.
One reason is that it will soon warm back up to normal when the polar vortex returns to its regular home, Cohen said.
As for people thinking this cold outbreak disproves global warming, scientists say that's definitely not so.
Even with climate change, "we'll still have winter," said North Carolina state climatologist Kathie Dello. "What we're seeing here is we're pretty unprepared for almost every type of extreme weather. It's pretty sad."
Gadgetmac said:
As for people thinking this cold outbreak disproves global warming, scientists say that's definitely not so.
It also doesn't prove it either. Some like to suggest that it's not just warming, but low and high extremes that prove climate change caused by man, yet there are records going back decades and even centuries that show what is being experienced now is not anything new.
Edited by STR160 on Friday 19th February 09:42
STR160 said:
Gadgetmac said:
As for people thinking this cold outbreak disproves global warming, scientists say that's definitely not so.
It also doesn't prove it either. Some like to suggest that it's not just warming, but low and high extremes that prove climate change caused by man, yet there are records going back decades and even centuries that show what is being experienced now is not anything new.
The point I was making was that despite current record lows in parts of the US this is not out of line with a warming world.
There are more record high temps than record lows over the last few decades...the ratio is currently 2:1 and growing.
There will always be record lows but on a planet heating up these will become less and less frequent and outnumbered by record highs which shouldn't be happening if there is no global warming.
Gadgetmac said:
STR160 said:
Gadgetmac said:
As for people thinking this cold outbreak disproves global warming, scientists say that's definitely not so.
It also doesn't prove it either. Some like to suggest that it's not just warming, but low and high extremes that prove climate change caused by man, yet there are records going back decades and even centuries that show what is being experienced now is not anything new.
The point I was making was that despite current record lows in parts of the US this is not out of line with a warming world.
There are more record high temps than record lows over the last few decades...the ratio is currently 2:1 and growing.
There will always be record lows but on a planet heating up these will become less and less frequent and outnumbered by record highs which shouldn't be happening if there is no global warming.
Or would it all be static? Don't bother answering that. I know the convention is that "it's never happened this fast before", but that doesn't hold up when looking at long term historical data.
Edited by STR160 on Friday 19th February 11:20
STR160 said:
Gadgetmac said:
STR160 said:
Gadgetmac said:
As for people thinking this cold outbreak disproves global warming, scientists say that's definitely not so.
It also doesn't prove it either. Some like to suggest that it's not just warming, but low and high extremes that prove climate change caused by man, yet there are records going back decades and even centuries that show what is being experienced now is not anything new.
The point I was making was that despite current record lows in parts of the US this is not out of line with a warming world.
There are more record high temps than record lows over the last few decades...the ratio is currently 2:1 and growing.
There will always be record lows but on a planet heating up these will become less and less frequent and outnumbered by record highs which shouldn't be happening if there is no global warming.
Or would it all be static? Don't bother answering that.
Edited by STR160 on Friday 19th February 11:20
The general picture of the holocene is of a temperature maximum about 8K years ago (after the YD) followed by a long slow milancovitch cooling - a pattern seen in previous interglacials too.
Not sure how that leads to an expectation of warming right now.
STR160 said:
I know the convention is that "it's never happened this fast before", but that doesn't hold up when looking at long term historical data.
Which historical data is that? I'm not aware of a precedent so that would be interesting.I'm surprised Gadget hasn't jumped on this study finding...oh wait...it doesn't blame humans or CO2.
Just one of many articles - https://www.sciencenews.org/article/earth-magnetic...
Just one of many articles - https://www.sciencenews.org/article/earth-magnetic...
STR160 said:
I'm surprised Gadget hasn't jumped on this study finding...oh wait...it doesn't blame humans or CO2.
Just one of many articles - https://www.sciencenews.org/article/earth-magnetic...
Sorry, I’ve read that and must have missed it’s relevence to what’s happening today. As the climate events surrounding that reversal all happened in the 200 years or so leading up to the reversal are you saying we’re going through that now?Just one of many articles - https://www.sciencenews.org/article/earth-magnetic...
I don’t understand what your point is I’m afraid.
That article is also dated this month and says nothing about AGW at all so it’s hardly an endorsement of your position.
These “many articles”...are they all the same? Is this what AGW denial has come to, you post links to papers that specifically don’t mention it and then claim it as a ‘win’?
BTW: Why would I jump on that study? I don’t think I’ve ever posted a link to a paper about the past.
I see KP’s comments have been completely ignored...as has my post...
Gadgetmac said:
I'll tell you what, feel free to visit the sites I mentioned and come back with a list of published papers that deny AGW or Climate Change in the last 2 years. I'll wait.
Here’s how to post a link to something that apperas to support your position:
Gulf Stream System at its weakest in over a millennium
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-gulf-stream-weakest-...
by Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research - published today
Extract:
In more than 1,000 years, the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), also known as Gulf Stream System, has not been as weak as in recent decades. This is the result of a new study by scientists from Ireland, Britain and Germany. The researchers compiled so-called proxy data, taken mainly from natural archives like ocean sediments or ice cores, reaching back many hundreds of years to reconstruct the flow history of the AMOC. They found consistent evidence that its slowdown in the 20th century is unprecedented in the past millennium; it is likely linked to human-caused climate change. The giant ocean circulation system is relevant for weather patterns in Europe and regional sea levels in the U.S.; its slowdown is also associated with an observed cold blob in the northern Atlantic.
“The Gulf Stream System works like a giant conveyor belt, carrying warm surface water from the equator up north, and sending cold, low-salinity deep water back down south. It moves nearly 20 million cubic meters of water per second, almost 100 times the Amazon flow," explains Stefan Rahmstorf from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research PIK, initiator of the study to be published in Nature Geoscience. Previous studies by Rahmstorf and colleagues showed a slowdown of the ocean current of about 15% since the mid-20th century, linking it to human-caused global warming, but a robust picture about its long-term development has up to now been lacking: This is what the researchers provide with their review of results of proxy data studies.
Why is the AMOC slowing down?
An AMOC slowdown has long been predicted by climate models as a response to global warming caused by greenhouse gases. According to a number of studies, this is likely the reason for the observed weakening. The Atlantic overturning is driven by what the scientists call deep convection, triggered by the differences in the density of the ocean water: Warm and salty water moves from the south to the north where it cools down and thus gets denser. When it is heavy enough the water sinks to deeper ocean layers and flows back to the south. Global warming disturbs this mechanism: Increased rainfall and enhanced melting of the Greenland Ice Sheet add fresh water to the surface ocean. This reduces the salinity and thus the density of the water, inhibiting the sinking and thus weakening the flow of the AMOC.
Its weakening has also been linked to a unique substantial cooling of the northern Atlantic over the past hundred years. This so-called cold blob was predicted by climate models as a result of a weakening AMOC, which transports less heat into this region.
Gulf Stream System at its weakest in over a millennium
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-gulf-stream-weakest-...
by Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research - published today
Extract:
In more than 1,000 years, the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), also known as Gulf Stream System, has not been as weak as in recent decades. This is the result of a new study by scientists from Ireland, Britain and Germany. The researchers compiled so-called proxy data, taken mainly from natural archives like ocean sediments or ice cores, reaching back many hundreds of years to reconstruct the flow history of the AMOC. They found consistent evidence that its slowdown in the 20th century is unprecedented in the past millennium; it is likely linked to human-caused climate change. The giant ocean circulation system is relevant for weather patterns in Europe and regional sea levels in the U.S.; its slowdown is also associated with an observed cold blob in the northern Atlantic.
“The Gulf Stream System works like a giant conveyor belt, carrying warm surface water from the equator up north, and sending cold, low-salinity deep water back down south. It moves nearly 20 million cubic meters of water per second, almost 100 times the Amazon flow," explains Stefan Rahmstorf from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research PIK, initiator of the study to be published in Nature Geoscience. Previous studies by Rahmstorf and colleagues showed a slowdown of the ocean current of about 15% since the mid-20th century, linking it to human-caused global warming, but a robust picture about its long-term development has up to now been lacking: This is what the researchers provide with their review of results of proxy data studies.
Why is the AMOC slowing down?
An AMOC slowdown has long been predicted by climate models as a response to global warming caused by greenhouse gases. According to a number of studies, this is likely the reason for the observed weakening. The Atlantic overturning is driven by what the scientists call deep convection, triggered by the differences in the density of the ocean water: Warm and salty water moves from the south to the north where it cools down and thus gets denser. When it is heavy enough the water sinks to deeper ocean layers and flows back to the south. Global warming disturbs this mechanism: Increased rainfall and enhanced melting of the Greenland Ice Sheet add fresh water to the surface ocean. This reduces the salinity and thus the density of the water, inhibiting the sinking and thus weakening the flow of the AMOC.
Its weakening has also been linked to a unique substantial cooling of the northern Atlantic over the past hundred years. This so-called cold blob was predicted by climate models as a result of a weakening AMOC, which transports less heat into this region.
Here’s another one from today...
Climate change-driven snowmelt in Alps triggers abrupt seasonal change
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-climate-change-drive...
Extract:
Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change and as a result triggering abrupt deviations in mountain ecosystems. These changes could negatively affect the functioning of these valuable ecosystems.
New research has demonstrated that vitally important microbial communities within Alpine soils are under threat as a direct result of increasing global temperatures caused by ongoing climate change. These belowground microbes critically support aboveground life because they recycle the key nutrients upon which all animals and plants depend, including humans. They also control how much carbon is stored safely in the soil, where it cannot cause further global warming.
Climate change-driven snowmelt in Alps triggers abrupt seasonal change
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-climate-change-drive...
Extract:
Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change and as a result triggering abrupt deviations in mountain ecosystems. These changes could negatively affect the functioning of these valuable ecosystems.
New research has demonstrated that vitally important microbial communities within Alpine soils are under threat as a direct result of increasing global temperatures caused by ongoing climate change. These belowground microbes critically support aboveground life because they recycle the key nutrients upon which all animals and plants depend, including humans. They also control how much carbon is stored safely in the soil, where it cannot cause further global warming.
And another one...from less than 24 hours ago...
In Iceland, melting glaciers give way to plant life
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-iceland-glaciers-lif...
How many would you like stew?
In Iceland, melting glaciers give way to plant life
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-iceland-glaciers-lif...
How many would you like stew?
Gadgetmac said:
Here’s another one from today...
Climate change-driven snowmelt in Alps triggers abrupt seasonal change
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-climate-change-drive...
Extract:
Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change and as a result triggering abrupt deviations in mountain ecosystems. These changes could negatively affect the functioning of these valuable ecosystems.
New research has demonstrated that vitally important microbial communities within Alpine soils are under threat as a direct result of increasing global temperatures caused by ongoing climate change. These belowground microbes critically support aboveground life because they recycle the key nutrients upon which all animals and plants depend, including humans. They also control how much carbon is stored safely in the soil, where it cannot cause further global warming.
Where is the evidence that Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change?Climate change-driven snowmelt in Alps triggers abrupt seasonal change
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-climate-change-drive...
Extract:
Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change and as a result triggering abrupt deviations in mountain ecosystems. These changes could negatively affect the functioning of these valuable ecosystems.
New research has demonstrated that vitally important microbial communities within Alpine soils are under threat as a direct result of increasing global temperatures caused by ongoing climate change. These belowground microbes critically support aboveground life because they recycle the key nutrients upon which all animals and plants depend, including humans. They also control how much carbon is stored safely in the soil, where it cannot cause further global warming.
Kawasicki said:
Gadgetmac said:
Here’s another one from today...
Climate change-driven snowmelt in Alps triggers abrupt seasonal change
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-climate-change-drive...
Extract:
Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change and as a result triggering abrupt deviations in mountain ecosystems. These changes could negatively affect the functioning of these valuable ecosystems.
New research has demonstrated that vitally important microbial communities within Alpine soils are under threat as a direct result of increasing global temperatures caused by ongoing climate change. These belowground microbes critically support aboveground life because they recycle the key nutrients upon which all animals and plants depend, including humans. They also control how much carbon is stored safely in the soil, where it cannot cause further global warming.
Where is the evidence that Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change?Climate change-driven snowmelt in Alps triggers abrupt seasonal change
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-climate-change-drive...
Extract:
Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change and as a result triggering abrupt deviations in mountain ecosystems. These changes could negatively affect the functioning of these valuable ecosystems.
New research has demonstrated that vitally important microbial communities within Alpine soils are under threat as a direct result of increasing global temperatures caused by ongoing climate change. These belowground microbes critically support aboveground life because they recycle the key nutrients upon which all animals and plants depend, including humans. They also control how much carbon is stored safely in the soil, where it cannot cause further global warming.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308480847...
Received: 12 May 2016/Accepted: 4 September 2016 /Published online: 21 September 2016
Extract:
Global warming has strong impacts on snow cover, which in turn affects ecosystems, hydrological regimes and winter tourism. Only a few long-term snow series are available worldwide, especially at high elevation. Here, we analyzed several snowpack characteristics over the period 1970–2015 at eleven meteorological stations, spanning elevations from 1139 to 2540 m all in the Swiss Alps. Snow cover duration has significantly shortened at all sites, on average by 8.9 days decade. This shortening was largely driven by earlier snowmelt (on average 5.8 days decade) and partly by later snow onset but the latter was significant in only ~30 % of the stations.
There are quite a few papers published on alpine climate. A simple google away. You can do it from now on.
Gadgetmac said:
Kawasicki said:
Gadgetmac said:
Here’s another one from today...
Climate change-driven snowmelt in Alps triggers abrupt seasonal change
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-climate-change-drive...
Extract:
Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change and as a result triggering abrupt deviations in mountain ecosystems. These changes could negatively affect the functioning of these valuable ecosystems.
New research has demonstrated that vitally important microbial communities within Alpine soils are under threat as a direct result of increasing global temperatures caused by ongoing climate change. These belowground microbes critically support aboveground life because they recycle the key nutrients upon which all animals and plants depend, including humans. They also control how much carbon is stored safely in the soil, where it cannot cause further global warming.
Where is the evidence that Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change?Climate change-driven snowmelt in Alps triggers abrupt seasonal change
https://phys.org/news/2021-02-climate-change-drive...
Extract:
Spring snowmelt in the Alps is occurring earlier in the year due to climate change and as a result triggering abrupt deviations in mountain ecosystems. These changes could negatively affect the functioning of these valuable ecosystems.
New research has demonstrated that vitally important microbial communities within Alpine soils are under threat as a direct result of increasing global temperatures caused by ongoing climate change. These belowground microbes critically support aboveground life because they recycle the key nutrients upon which all animals and plants depend, including humans. They also control how much carbon is stored safely in the soil, where it cannot cause further global warming.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308480847...
Received: 12 May 2016/Accepted: 4 September 2016 /Published online: 21 September 2016
Extract:
Global warming has strong impacts on snow cover, which in turn affects ecosystems, hydrological regimes and winter tourism. Only a few long-term snow series are available worldwide, especially at high elevation. Here, we analyzed several snowpack characteristics over the period 1970–2015 at eleven meteorological stations, spanning elevations from 1139 to 2540 m all in the Swiss Alps. Snow cover duration has significantly shortened at all sites, on average by 8.9 days decade. This shortening was largely driven by earlier snowmelt (on average 5.8 days decade) and partly by later snow onset but the latter was significant in only ~30 % of the stations.
There are quite a few papers published on alpine climate. A simple google away. You can do it from now on.
Google is great. Thanks for the suggestion. Found this in seconds. Lots of regional variation...
[url]
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321276140...
Edited by Kawasicki on Thursday 25th February 19:30
Kawasicki said:
Regional climates have always changed, long before humans began using fossil fuels. Has the natural variation of regional climate stopped?
Perhaps you have a paper we can read that disputes earlier alpine snow melt due to global warming?Edited by Gadgetmac on Thursday 25th February 19:33
Gadgetmac said:
Kawasicki said:
Regional climates have always changed, long before humans began using fossil fuels. Has the natural variation of regional climate stopped?
Perhaps you have a paper we can read that disputes earlier alpine snow melt due to global warming?Edited by Gadgetmac on Thursday 25th February 19:33
Kawasicki said:
Gadgetmac said:
Kawasicki said:
Regional climates have always changed, long before humans began using fossil fuels. Has the natural variation of regional climate stopped?
Perhaps you have a paper we can read that disputes earlier alpine snow melt due to global warming?I'll be back shortly with more science
Gadgetmac said:
Kawasicki said:
Gadgetmac said:
Kawasicki said:
Regional climates have always changed, long before humans began using fossil fuels. Has the natural variation of regional climate stopped?
Perhaps you have a paper we can read that disputes earlier alpine snow melt due to global warming?I'll be back shortly with more science
By all means keep posting. It's quite entertaining.
Kawasicki said:
Gadgetmac said:
Kawasicki said:
Gadgetmac said:
Kawasicki said:
Regional climates have always changed, long before humans began using fossil fuels. Has the natural variation of regional climate stopped?
Perhaps you have a paper we can read that disputes earlier alpine snow melt due to global warming?I'll be back shortly with more science
By all means keep posting. It's quite entertaining.
Anyway, somebody has to post some current science...you deniers seem unable to.
I‘m not a denier. Basic science states that additional CO2 should warm the climate. I agree with the basic science.
The mechanics of Earth‘s climate isn’t basic though. Attributing every regional climate fluctuation to AGW is unscientific, particularly when you have data that indicates that regional climates changed rapidly before the AGW period.
Saying AGW is the cause of earlier snow melts in the Alps is utter junk. It doesn’t matter if it’s the consensus. That’s not proof.
The mechanics of Earth‘s climate isn’t basic though. Attributing every regional climate fluctuation to AGW is unscientific, particularly when you have data that indicates that regional climates changed rapidly before the AGW period.
Saying AGW is the cause of earlier snow melts in the Alps is utter junk. It doesn’t matter if it’s the consensus. That’s not proof.
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