Space Launch System - Orion

[hidetheelephants]

Beati Dogu said:

There won’t be a crewed version of Dragon XL. It’ll be launched inside a Falcon 9 fairing for a start and is basically a tin can for supplies only. It lacks a heat shield for reentry as well.

hidetheelephants said:

Why does it have to be manned when lobbing into space? There's surely no reason the crew couldn't board once in LEO.]

Then you’re paying for two launches, plus the complications of in-orbit rendezvous.

If it means you don't have to pay for SLS that's a big financial incentive.

[Beati Dogu]

Congress isn’t interested in results or saving money; They just want ongoing pork barrel spending in their own districts. That goes for both sides. There’s are many reasons public opinion of Congress is in the basement and this is just one of them.

[MartG]

Beati Dogu said:

Congress isn’t interested in results or saving money; They just want ongoing pork barrel spending in their own districts. That goes for both sides. There’s are many reasons public opinion of Congress is in the basement and this is just one of them.

True

[hidetheelephants]

Beati Dogu said:

Congress isn’t interested in results or saving money; They just want ongoing pork barrel spending in their own districts. That goes for both sides. There’s are many reasons public opinion of Congress is in the basement and this is just one of them.

This is what does unite progressives with fiscal hawks(actual fiscal hawks, not stehawks like Rand Paul who pretend to be but are just corporate shills) and should unite all who aren't utterly corrupted by the system; NASA has a massive budget and it would pay for a lot more stuff if it wasn't pissed away on things like SLS.

[Beati Dogu]

They're going to have another go at test firing the SLS rocket on Thursday, 25th Feb

https://www.nasa.gov/artemisprogram/greenrun

[Flooble]

Beati Dogu said:

They're going to have another go at test firing the SLS rocket on Thursday, 25th Feb

https://www.nasa.gov/artemisprogram/greenrun

Fingers crossed it works this time! At least they'll have it shipped to KSC before SpaceX have mastered landing Starships. I suspect it's still going to be a bit nip-tuck who launches their booster first though.

[Beati Dogu]

The green run static-fire test was supposed to be today, but was postponed after they discovered a problem with an oxygen supply valve on the rocket. They're currently working with Boeing to fix or replace it.

[Flooble]

Can't help but wonder why they stacked the SRBs - unless the contractors just can't break the habit of "how can we squeeze some more revenue from this job"

[Clive Milk]

The timeline seems to be stretching unfortunately.

[hidetheelephants]

Flooble said:

Can't help but wonder why they stacked the SRBs - unless the contractors just can't break the habit of "how can we squeeze some more revenue from this job"

They make them in Utah and it's not very convenient trying to transport 50m long things.

[Flooble]

hidetheelephants said:

Flooble said:

Can't help but wonder why they stacked the SRBs - unless the contractors just can't break the habit of "how can we squeeze some more revenue from this job"

They make them in Utah and it's not very convenient trying to transport 50m long things.

Sorry, I perhaps should have been clearer. After you put the first two segments of the SRB together they can only remain stacked for 12 months. If they are left stacked for longer than that there is a risk of the joints not being stable (or something) and the segments would need to be de-stacked and re-done. Possibly they'll come up with some test/inspection/waiver but the current rules are that after 12 months of being stacked the SRB is no good anymore.

The started stacking the SRBs just before the Green Run, they could have literally waited a fortnight and saved all the cost and hassle of having to de stack the SRBs if (as has happened) the Green Run did not go perfectly.

Hence my comment that it feels as though they just can't help themselves finding ways to squeeze a bit more revenue.

[Talksteer]

Beati Dogu said:

The launch escape system would take the capsule off the rocket and they’d splashdown in the Atlantic. Not ideal though, of course.

I think the solid boosters fire for 2 minutes, so they’d only be partway through that as well.

No, they’ll have to do the full burn again, so like the Shuttle it means removing all the engines to check them over. Another month or two wasted.

Pretty sure if you shutdown all the engines on the SLS it is toast very quickly due to the thrust no longer supporting the main body of the rocket.

[hidetheelephants]

Flooble said:

hidetheelephants said:

Flooble said:

Can't help but wonder why they stacked the SRBs - unless the contractors just can't break the habit of "how can we squeeze some more revenue from this job"

They make them in Utah and it's not very convenient trying to transport 50m long things.

Sorry, I perhaps should have been clearer. After you put the first two segments of the SRB together they can only remain stacked for 12 months. If they are left stacked for longer than that there is a risk of the joints not being stable (or something) and the segments would need to be de-stacked and re-done. Possibly they'll come up with some test/inspection/waiver but the current rules are that after 12 months of being stacked the SRB is no good anymore.

The started stacking the SRBs just before the Green Run, they could have literally waited a fortnight and saved all the cost and hassle of having to de stack the SRBs if (as has happened) the Green Run did not go perfectly.

Hence my comment that it feels as though they just can't help themselves finding ways to squeeze a bit more revenue.

Slack critical path planning, unless it really is pork barrel, which is entirely possible as SLS has been one big pork barrel since Falcon Heavy made its debut.

[Talksteer]

hidetheelephants said:

Flooble said:

hidetheelephants said:

Flooble said:

Can't help but wonder why they stacked the SRBs - unless the contractors just can't break the habit of "how can we squeeze some more revenue from this job"

They make them in Utah and it's not very convenient trying to transport 50m long things.

Sorry, I perhaps should have been clearer. After you put the first two segments of the SRB together they can only remain stacked for 12 months. If they are left stacked for longer than that there is a risk of the joints not being stable (or something) and the segments would need to be de-stacked and re-done. Possibly they'll come up with some test/inspection/waiver but the current rules are that after 12 months of being stacked the SRB is no good anymore.

The started stacking the SRBs just before the Green Run, they could have literally waited a fortnight and saved all the cost and hassle of having to de stack the SRBs if (as has happened) the Green Run did not go perfectly.

Hence my comment that it feels as though they just can't help themselves finding ways to squeeze a bit more revenue.

Slack critical path planning, unless it really is pork barrel, which is entirely possible as SLS has been one big pork barrel since Falcon Heavy made its debut.

Sounds symptomatic of a large complex project with far too many sub contractors and complex commercial relationships.

I would suspect that the option was probably to use the personnel and equipment to begin stacking or end up paying pretty much the same cost to have them stand down and then pay some other penalty later when they need to come back to the pad and they get in the way of another contractor.

That's pretty much how Cross Rail worked, harvest the penalty clauses due to other contractors being in the way rather than help said people out. It's not pork barrel as such just poorly organised with poor incentives.

The comparison to SpaceX is stark, one objective, one source of money. Workers shuffle between tasks if their part is being delayed or finishes early. I suspect the Starship's planning horizon is probably in the region of a few months at the most.

Having said all this if SLS had been lean and focused it most likely would have been cancelled some time ago.

[Beati Dogu]

They've been stacking the SLS solid boosters, even though they haven't got the first stage back from the green run test yet:




And here's the top of them - Minus the pointy fairings:

[Beati Dogu]

They’re going to try the green run test again on Thursday 18th March.

[Beati Dogu]

^ Still scheduled for Thursday, 18th March at 3 pm ET / 7 pm UK time

https://nasa.gov/live/

[Flooble]

Beati Dogu said:

^ Still scheduled for Thursday, 18th March at 3 pm ET / 7 pm UK time

https://nasa.gov/live/

Looks like it might happen then! You'd expect them to have announced any other unexpected problem by now.

I feel sorry for SpaceX - for a while it looked like they might have got a Starship suborbital before SLS had even shipped, that's not going to happen now though.

[annodomini2]

Flooble said:

Beati Dogu said:

^ Still scheduled for Thursday, 18th March at 3 pm ET / 7 pm UK time

https://nasa.gov/live/

Looks like it might happen then! You'd expect them to have announced any other unexpected problem by now.

I feel sorry for SpaceX - for a while it looked like they might have got a Starship suborbital before SLS had even shipped, that's not going to happen now though.

I'd still put money starship will reach orbit fist.

Maybe not round the moon, but certainly orbit.

[MartG]

The green run livestream keeps being delayed - just gone back another 30 mins :/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0X0womVi7w

Annnd another 30min delay

Edited by MartG on Thursday 18th March 19:01