Discussion
rider73 said:
just to divert a little here.
at what altitude can a space station exist , orbit etc - and how far away are these flights from doing exactly what it does now, but perhaps just pushing the passenger cabin up to a space station for a "hotel" type stay?
Depends whether the space station is going to stay under thrust (which is beyond us at the moment)! Assuming a "normal" unpowered orbit the ISS is where it's at, by definition you need an orbital class booster to get there - a suborbital flight (Blue Origin, Virgin) is never going to intersect with an orbiting space station.at what altitude can a space station exist , orbit etc - and how far away are these flights from doing exactly what it does now, but perhaps just pushing the passenger cabin up to a space station for a "hotel" type stay?
MartG said:
rider73 said:
ah yes - just a quick google shows how stupid my question was
Blue O height : 107.0214 km
ISS : Orbit height: 408 km
thats a big gap!!!!
It's not so much the altitude as the velocity - Blue Origin velocity at max altitude 0mph, orbital velocity 17,500mphBlue O height : 107.0214 km
ISS : Orbit height: 408 km
thats a big gap!!!!
Blue Origin made a thing about showing off their small small fleet of Rivian electric pickup trucks to move people around the launch site. Another Bezos/Musk point of "competition". Amazon invested $700 million in Rivian and they're due to build a hundred thousands delivery vans for Amazon over the next few years. Rivian bought a former Mitsubishi car factory in the excitingly-named town of Normal, Illinois to turn them out.
Tesla's battery Gigafactory is near the more fittingly-named town of Sparks, Nevada.
Tesla's battery Gigafactory is near the more fittingly-named town of Sparks, Nevada.
Beati Dogu said:
Blue Origin made a thing about showing off their small small fleet of Rivian electric pickup trucks to move people around the launch site. Another Bezos/Musk point of "competition". Amazon invested $700 million in Rivian and they're due to build a hundred thousands delivery vans for Amazon over the next few years. Rivian bought a former Mitsubishi car factory in the excitingly-named town of Normal, Illinois to turn them out.
Tesla's battery Gigafactory is near the more fittingly-named town of Sparks, Nevada.
That town ain't big enough for the two of them ........Tesla's battery Gigafactory is near the more fittingly-named town of Sparks, Nevada.
dickymint said:
Beati Dogu said:
Blue Origin made a thing about showing off their small small fleet of Rivian electric pickup trucks to move people around the launch site. Another Bezos/Musk point of "competition". Amazon invested $700 million in Rivian and they're due to build a hundred thousands delivery vans for Amazon over the next few years. Rivian bought a former Mitsubishi car factory in the excitingly-named town of Normal, Illinois to turn them out.
Tesla's battery Gigafactory is near the more fittingly-named town of Sparks, Nevada.
That town ain't big enough for the two of them ........Tesla's battery Gigafactory is near the more fittingly-named town of Sparks, Nevada.
Beati Dogu said:
Blue Origin made a thing about showing off their small small fleet of Rivian electric pickup trucks to move people around the launch site. Another Bezos/Musk point of "competition". Amazon invested $700 million in Rivian and they're due to build a hundred thousands delivery vans for Amazon over the next few years. Rivian bought a former Mitsubishi car factory in the excitingly-named town of Normal, Illinois to turn them out.
The Rivians look good, Amazon has afik put in a lot more money in later rounds of investing and has a much bigger slice of the company now, and basically forcing it to make vans for Amazon as a priority over the R1T/Sedit - I dont actually mind that tbh EV vans are going to have more of an impact that the pickups
I've seen some of the early reviews and the pickup sounds interesting. I'm not super keen on the "pig nose" headlights, but otherwise it looks all right.
I must admit I thought of the band as well when I first saw the town name. There's a recent film out about them I keep meaning to watch.
dickymint said:
That town ain't big enough for the two of them ........
Very good. I must admit I thought of the band as well when I first saw the town name. There's a recent film out about them I keep meaning to watch.
A screen capture of a New Glenn booster from Blue Origin's recent launch coverage:
More, including close up views here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukGXfH-eyg
I expect this is an engineering mockup for fitment and other testing and not actual flight hardware.
More, including close up views here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukGXfH-eyg
I expect this is an engineering mockup for fitment and other testing and not actual flight hardware.
"Blue Origin and Sierra Space today announced plans for Orbital Reef, a commercially developed, owned, and operated space station to be built in low Earth orbit. The station will open the next chapter of human space exploration and development by facilitating the growth of a vibrant ecosystem and business model for the future. Orbital Reef is backed by space industry leaders and teammates including Boeing, Redwire Space, Genesis Engineering Solutions, and Arizona State University.
Designed to open multiple new markets in space, Orbital Reef will provide anyone with the opportunity to establish their own address on orbit. This unique destination will offer research, industrial, international, and commercial customers the cost competitive end-to-end services they need including space transportation and logistics, space habitation, equipment accommodation, and operations including onboard crew. The station will start operating in the second half of this decade.
Orbital Reef will be operated as a “mixed use business park” in space. Shared infrastructure efficiently supports the proprietary needs of diverse tenants and visitors. It features a human-centered space architecture with world-class services and amenities that is inspiring, practical, and safe. As the premier commercial destination in low Earth orbit, Orbital Reef will provide the essential infrastructure needed to scale economic activity and open new markets in space. Reusable space transportation and smart design, accompanied by advanced automation and logistics, will minimize cost and complexity for both traditional space operators and new arrivals, allowing the widest range of users to pursue their goals. The open system architecture allows any customer or nation to link up and scale to support demand. Module berths, vehicle ports, utilities, and amenities all increase as the market grows.
The Orbital Reef business model makes it easy for customers and is strategically designed to support a diverse portfolio of uses. The team has all the services and systems to meet the needs of emergent customers, including researchers, manufacturers, and visitors. Orbital Reef offers standard interfaces at all levels – locker, rack, and module. Seasoned space agencies, high-tech consortia, sovereign nations without space programs, media and travel companies, funded entrepreneurs and sponsored inventors, and future-minded investors all have a place on Orbital Reef.
The Orbital Reef team of experts brings proven capabilities and new visions to provide key elements and services, including unique experience from building and operating the International Space Station:
•Blue Origin – Utility systems, large-diameter core modules, and reusable heavy-lift New Glenn launch system.
•Sierra Space - Large Integrated Flexible Environment (LIFE) module, node module, and runway-landing Dream Chaser spaceplane for crew and cargo transportation, capable of landing on runways worldwide.
•Boeing – Science module, station operations, maintenance engineering, and Starliner crew spacecraft.
•Redwire Space – Microgravity research, development, and manufacturing; payload operations and deployable structures.
•Genesis Engineering Solutions – Single Person Spacecraft for routine operations and tourist excursions.
•Arizona State University – Leads a global consortium of universities providing research advisory services and public outreach.
“For over sixty years, NASA and other space agencies have developed orbital space flight and space habitation, setting us up for commercial business to take off in this decade,” said Brent Sherwood, Senior Vice President of Advanced Development Programs for Blue Origin. “We will expand access, lower the cost, and provide all the services and amenities needed to normalize space flight. A vibrant business ecosystem will grow in low Earth orbit, generating new discoveries, new products, new entertainments, and global awareness.”
“Sierra Space is thrilled to partner with Blue Origin and provide the Dream Chaser spaceplane, the LIFE module and additional space technologies to open up space for commercial research, manufacturing, and tourism. As a former NASA astronaut, I’ve been waiting for the moment where working and living in space is accessible to more people worldwide, and that moment has arrived,” said Dr. Janet Kavandi, former three time NASA astronaut and Sierra Space president.
“This is exciting for us because this project does not duplicate the immensely successful and enduring ISS, but rather goes a step further to fulfill a unique position in low Earth orbit where it can serve a diverse array of companies and host non-specialist crews,” said John Mulholland, Boeing VP and program manager for the International Space Station. “It calls for the same kind of expertise we used to first design and then build the International Space Station and the same skills we employ every day to operate, maintain and sustain the ISS.”
“The Orbital Reef represents the next evolution of the commercial space paradigm by creating the first ever crewed private sector platform in low Earth orbit. The Orbital Reef will carry forward the singular legacy of the ISS, supporting innovative microgravity research, development, and manufacturing activities which will advance fields as diverse as communications and biotechnology,” said Mike Gold, Executive Vice President for Civil Space and External Affairs at Redwire. “The microgravity environment presents an entirely new arena for commercial and scientific development, making Orbital Reef the platform that will launch new technologies and capabilities dramatically improving life on Earth while enabling humanity’s journey to the stars.”
“The Single Person Spacecraft will transform space walking,” said Brand Griffin, Program Manager for Genesis Engineering Solutions. “Space workers and tourists alike will have safe, comfortable, and quick access outside Orbital Reef. Shirtsleeve environment, great visibility, automated guidance, and advanced precision manipulators will make external operations cost-effective and routine.”
“ASU’s Interplanetary Initiative is honored to be leading the university consortium that is supporting Orbital Reef,” said Lindy Elkins-Tanton, Vice President of ASU’s Interplanetary Initiative and Principal Investigator of the NASA Psyche mission. “We’ve brought together an international group of more than a dozen universities to work on the ethics and guidelines of research — on how we can bring to bear all our expertise in science and research and manufacturing in low gravity, to help nations, corporations and groups that want access to Orbital Reef. It’s about collectively believing in our future and bringing science and engineering to bear on a better future – hugely exciting.”
Orbital Reef University Advisory Council
Arizona State University (ASU) leads a global consortium of universities, the Orbital Reef University Advisory Council. Comprising more than a dozen leading academic institutions with expertise in space and microgravity research, the University Research Advisory Council will focus academic community needs, stimulate research, advise novice researchers, evolve standards of conduct, and lead STEM outreach."
Designed to open multiple new markets in space, Orbital Reef will provide anyone with the opportunity to establish their own address on orbit. This unique destination will offer research, industrial, international, and commercial customers the cost competitive end-to-end services they need including space transportation and logistics, space habitation, equipment accommodation, and operations including onboard crew. The station will start operating in the second half of this decade.
Orbital Reef will be operated as a “mixed use business park” in space. Shared infrastructure efficiently supports the proprietary needs of diverse tenants and visitors. It features a human-centered space architecture with world-class services and amenities that is inspiring, practical, and safe. As the premier commercial destination in low Earth orbit, Orbital Reef will provide the essential infrastructure needed to scale economic activity and open new markets in space. Reusable space transportation and smart design, accompanied by advanced automation and logistics, will minimize cost and complexity for both traditional space operators and new arrivals, allowing the widest range of users to pursue their goals. The open system architecture allows any customer or nation to link up and scale to support demand. Module berths, vehicle ports, utilities, and amenities all increase as the market grows.
The Orbital Reef business model makes it easy for customers and is strategically designed to support a diverse portfolio of uses. The team has all the services and systems to meet the needs of emergent customers, including researchers, manufacturers, and visitors. Orbital Reef offers standard interfaces at all levels – locker, rack, and module. Seasoned space agencies, high-tech consortia, sovereign nations without space programs, media and travel companies, funded entrepreneurs and sponsored inventors, and future-minded investors all have a place on Orbital Reef.
The Orbital Reef team of experts brings proven capabilities and new visions to provide key elements and services, including unique experience from building and operating the International Space Station:
•Blue Origin – Utility systems, large-diameter core modules, and reusable heavy-lift New Glenn launch system.
•Sierra Space - Large Integrated Flexible Environment (LIFE) module, node module, and runway-landing Dream Chaser spaceplane for crew and cargo transportation, capable of landing on runways worldwide.
•Boeing – Science module, station operations, maintenance engineering, and Starliner crew spacecraft.
•Redwire Space – Microgravity research, development, and manufacturing; payload operations and deployable structures.
•Genesis Engineering Solutions – Single Person Spacecraft for routine operations and tourist excursions.
•Arizona State University – Leads a global consortium of universities providing research advisory services and public outreach.
“For over sixty years, NASA and other space agencies have developed orbital space flight and space habitation, setting us up for commercial business to take off in this decade,” said Brent Sherwood, Senior Vice President of Advanced Development Programs for Blue Origin. “We will expand access, lower the cost, and provide all the services and amenities needed to normalize space flight. A vibrant business ecosystem will grow in low Earth orbit, generating new discoveries, new products, new entertainments, and global awareness.”
“Sierra Space is thrilled to partner with Blue Origin and provide the Dream Chaser spaceplane, the LIFE module and additional space technologies to open up space for commercial research, manufacturing, and tourism. As a former NASA astronaut, I’ve been waiting for the moment where working and living in space is accessible to more people worldwide, and that moment has arrived,” said Dr. Janet Kavandi, former three time NASA astronaut and Sierra Space president.
“This is exciting for us because this project does not duplicate the immensely successful and enduring ISS, but rather goes a step further to fulfill a unique position in low Earth orbit where it can serve a diverse array of companies and host non-specialist crews,” said John Mulholland, Boeing VP and program manager for the International Space Station. “It calls for the same kind of expertise we used to first design and then build the International Space Station and the same skills we employ every day to operate, maintain and sustain the ISS.”
“The Orbital Reef represents the next evolution of the commercial space paradigm by creating the first ever crewed private sector platform in low Earth orbit. The Orbital Reef will carry forward the singular legacy of the ISS, supporting innovative microgravity research, development, and manufacturing activities which will advance fields as diverse as communications and biotechnology,” said Mike Gold, Executive Vice President for Civil Space and External Affairs at Redwire. “The microgravity environment presents an entirely new arena for commercial and scientific development, making Orbital Reef the platform that will launch new technologies and capabilities dramatically improving life on Earth while enabling humanity’s journey to the stars.”
“The Single Person Spacecraft will transform space walking,” said Brand Griffin, Program Manager for Genesis Engineering Solutions. “Space workers and tourists alike will have safe, comfortable, and quick access outside Orbital Reef. Shirtsleeve environment, great visibility, automated guidance, and advanced precision manipulators will make external operations cost-effective and routine.”
“ASU’s Interplanetary Initiative is honored to be leading the university consortium that is supporting Orbital Reef,” said Lindy Elkins-Tanton, Vice President of ASU’s Interplanetary Initiative and Principal Investigator of the NASA Psyche mission. “We’ve brought together an international group of more than a dozen universities to work on the ethics and guidelines of research — on how we can bring to bear all our expertise in science and research and manufacturing in low gravity, to help nations, corporations and groups that want access to Orbital Reef. It’s about collectively believing in our future and bringing science and engineering to bear on a better future – hugely exciting.”
Orbital Reef University Advisory Council
Arizona State University (ASU) leads a global consortium of universities, the Orbital Reef University Advisory Council. Comprising more than a dozen leading academic institutions with expertise in space and microgravity research, the University Research Advisory Council will focus academic community needs, stimulate research, advise novice researchers, evolve standards of conduct, and lead STEM outreach."
Blue Origin have released a buzzword and CGI-heavy video on Orbital Reef:
https://youtu.be/SC3ooNXfcGE
They’re getting a bit of a pasting in the comments as you might expect. The one about them finally becoming a competitor to Pixar did make me laugh though.
So, it’ll be launched by New Glenn rockets that don’t exist, crewed by a Boeing Starliner that’s years late and doesn’t work. Oh and resupply will be by Sierra Nevada, a company that hasn’t flown its Dream Chaser spacecraft into space yet. Dream Chasers will be launched on ULA Vulcan rockets that also haven’t flown yet, mostly because Blue Origin haven’t supplied working engines.
Doesn’t sound too promising. 2030 is going to be lit though. ]
https://youtu.be/SC3ooNXfcGE
They’re getting a bit of a pasting in the comments as you might expect. The one about them finally becoming a competitor to Pixar did make me laugh though.
So, it’ll be launched by New Glenn rockets that don’t exist, crewed by a Boeing Starliner that’s years late and doesn’t work. Oh and resupply will be by Sierra Nevada, a company that hasn’t flown its Dream Chaser spacecraft into space yet. Dream Chasers will be launched on ULA Vulcan rockets that also haven’t flown yet, mostly because Blue Origin haven’t supplied working engines.
Doesn’t sound too promising. 2030 is going to be lit though. ]
Edited by Beati Dogu on Monday 25th October 23:56
Ha, nice demolition!
I wonder what the point of the press release really is. In the olden days they'd be looking for NASA to fund lots of "studies", but that doesn't seem to be how NASA intends to do business now even with the rejig of the hierarchy to put a more "old space" friendly guy in charge. They are actually trying to launch rockets and do science rather than fund another round of Powerpoints.
Blue Origin don't need the funding anyway, so why do a press release which just highlights how far they have to go to accomplish their stated aims?
I wonder what the point of the press release really is. In the olden days they'd be looking for NASA to fund lots of "studies", but that doesn't seem to be how NASA intends to do business now even with the rejig of the hierarchy to put a more "old space" friendly guy in charge. They are actually trying to launch rockets and do science rather than fund another round of Powerpoints.
Blue Origin don't need the funding anyway, so why do a press release which just highlights how far they have to go to accomplish their stated aims?
Beati Dogu said:
Blue Origin have released a buzzword and CGI-heavy video on Orbital Reef:
https://youtu.be/SC3ooNXfcGE
They’re getting a bit of a pasting in the comments as you might expect. The one about them finally becoming a competitor to Pixar did make me laugh though.
So, it’ll be launched by New Glenn rockets that don’t exist, crewed by a Boeing Starliner that’s years late and doesn’t work. Oh and resupply will be by Sierra Nevada, a company that hasn’t flown its Dream Chaser spacecraft into space yet. Dream Chasers will be launched on ULA Vulcan rockets that also haven’t flown yet, mostly because Blue Origin haven’t supplied working engines.
Doesn’t sound too promising. 2030 is going to be lit though. ]
Reminiscent of President Kennedy's speech at Rice University in 1962 in which he said this - https://youtu.be/SC3ooNXfcGE
They’re getting a bit of a pasting in the comments as you might expect. The one about them finally becoming a competitor to Pixar did make me laugh though.
So, it’ll be launched by New Glenn rockets that don’t exist, crewed by a Boeing Starliner that’s years late and doesn’t work. Oh and resupply will be by Sierra Nevada, a company that hasn’t flown its Dream Chaser spacecraft into space yet. Dream Chasers will be launched on ULA Vulcan rockets that also haven’t flown yet, mostly because Blue Origin haven’t supplied working engines.
Doesn’t sound too promising. 2030 is going to be lit though. ]
Edited by Beati Dogu on Monday 25th October 23:56
We shall send to the moon, 240,000 miles away from the control station in Houston, a giant rocket more than 300 feet tall, the length of this football field, made of new metal alloys, some of which have not yet been invented, capable of standing heat and stresses several times more than have ever been experienced, fitted together with a precision better than the finest watch, carrying all the equipment needed for propulsion, guidance, control, communications, food and survival, on an untried mission, to an unknown celestial body, and then return it safely to earth, re-entering the atmosphere at speeds of over 25,000 miles per hour, causing heat about half that of the temperature of the sun--almost as hot as it is here today--and do all this, and do it right, and do it first before this decade is out--then we must be bold.
It seems more like his other speech (less famous for some reason) to the US Air Force Academy in June 1963, where he announced the National Supersonic Transport program. This would be an American rival to the recently announced Concorde (and later Soviet Tu-144 Concordski knock off).
“My judgement is that this government should immediately commence a new program in partnership with private industry to develop at the earliest practical date the prototype of a commercially successful supersonic transport superior to that being built in any other county in the world.
If we can build the best operational plane of this type – and I believe we can – then Congress and the country should be prepared to invest the funds and effort necessary to maintain this nation’s lead in long-range aircraft – a lead we have held since World War 2.
Spurred by competition from across the Atlantic and by the production of our own companies, the Federal Government must pledge funds to supplement the risk capital to be contributed by private companies.
We are talking about a plane, at the end of the Sixties that will move ahead at a speed greater than Mach 2 to all four corners of the globe.”
Boeing's 2707 would win the design runoff, but never got beyond 2 incomplete prototypes before the SST concept started falling apart & Congress pulled the plug in 1971.
“My judgement is that this government should immediately commence a new program in partnership with private industry to develop at the earliest practical date the prototype of a commercially successful supersonic transport superior to that being built in any other county in the world.
If we can build the best operational plane of this type – and I believe we can – then Congress and the country should be prepared to invest the funds and effort necessary to maintain this nation’s lead in long-range aircraft – a lead we have held since World War 2.
Spurred by competition from across the Atlantic and by the production of our own companies, the Federal Government must pledge funds to supplement the risk capital to be contributed by private companies.
We are talking about a plane, at the end of the Sixties that will move ahead at a speed greater than Mach 2 to all four corners of the globe.”
Boeing's 2707 would win the design runoff, but never got beyond 2 incomplete prototypes before the SST concept started falling apart & Congress pulled the plug in 1971.
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