UFO Thread

[RSTurboPaul]

skwdenyer said:

annodomini2 said:

skwdenyer said:

SpudLink said:

I’ll post this here as it addresses a possible solution to the Fermi paradox. It might just be that we are among the first space faring civilisations because the universe was too hostile for multicellular life in its first few billion years.

Animated for kids, but Kurzgesagt videos are always worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/GDSf2h9_39I

Isn't the practical problem that most of the universe is so far away that, even if other civilisations are out there at the same stage of development as us we're just not going to see it. Somewhere like Kepler-452b is 1400 light years away. We weren't putting out much EM radiation in 600 AD

Don't forget the return 777bc

Given we've only been transmitting for ~150yrs, we'd only be seeing responses from within ~75ly.

Fair point. I was thinking in terms of us picking up “stray” EM from another planet as “proof of life.”

Ultimately we need to solve faster-than-light travel otherwise we’re basically stuck - our “multi-planetary species” will be limited to a bunch of not-very-hospitable rocks. FTL comms would at least allow us to communicate with (supposed) alien species (although we’d also need FTL sensors to detect them).

The important factor in doing so is to stop saying “this is impossible” and start thinking “we haven’t solved this yet.” We can’t change our world through orthodoxy

Isn't this where quantum entanglement comes in, if I'm understanding things correctly, whereby two electrons that were joined together can be split apart and each will influence the other (instantaneously?), no matter how far apart they are from each other?

[skwdenyer]

RSTurboPaul said:

skwdenyer said:

annodomini2 said:

skwdenyer said:

SpudLink said:

I’ll post this here as it addresses a possible solution to the Fermi paradox. It might just be that we are among the first space faring civilisations because the universe was too hostile for multicellular life in its first few billion years.

Animated for kids, but Kurzgesagt videos are always worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/GDSf2h9_39I

Isn't the practical problem that most of the universe is so far away that, even if other civilisations are out there at the same stage of development as us we're just not going to see it. Somewhere like Kepler-452b is 1400 light years away. We weren't putting out much EM radiation in 600 AD

Don't forget the return 777bc

Given we've only been transmitting for ~150yrs, we'd only be seeing responses from within ~75ly.

Fair point. I was thinking in terms of us picking up “stray” EM from another planet as “proof of life.”

Ultimately we need to solve faster-than-light travel otherwise we’re basically stuck - our “multi-planetary species” will be limited to a bunch of not-very-hospitable rocks. FTL comms would at least allow us to communicate with (supposed) alien species (although we’d also need FTL sensors to detect them).

The important factor in doing so is to stop saying “this is impossible” and start thinking “we haven’t solved this yet.” We can’t change our world through orthodoxy

Isn't this where quantum entanglement comes in, if I'm understanding things correctly, whereby two electrons that were joined together can be split apart and each will influence the other (instantaneously?), no matter how far apart they are from each other?

That’s certainly the simplistic view of QE, as features
- for instance - in the Canal+ “War of the Worlds” series

That such superluminal communication would break causality is of course but one of its drawbacks. Even if something like the Alcubierre Drive is feasible, it won’t fix the comms problem.

[deckster]

RSTurboPaul said:

Isn't this where quantum entanglement comes in, if I'm understanding things correctly, whereby two electrons that were joined together can be split apart and each will influence the other (instantaneously?), no matter how far apart they are from each other?

Alas not. There's a decent explanation in simple terms here https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/... but fundamentally whilst measuring the quantum state of one entangled particle will indeed reveal information about the other entangled particle, all you're doing is revealing information that was present when the particles were originally entangled. There is no way to influence the state of the particle that you are measuring without breaking the entanglement. Effectively what this means is the outcome of any quantum measurement is entirely random and there is no possibility of transmitting any information through a truly random event.

[annodomini2]

skwdenyer said:

annodomini2 said:

skwdenyer said:

SpudLink said:

I’ll post this here as it addresses a possible solution to the Fermi paradox. It might just be that we are among the first space faring civilisations because the universe was too hostile for multicellular life in its first few billion years.

Animated for kids, but Kurzgesagt videos are always worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/GDSf2h9_39I

Isn't the practical problem that most of the universe is so far away that, even if other civilisations are out there at the same stage of development as us we're just not going to see it. Somewhere like Kepler-452b is 1400 light years away. We weren't putting out much EM radiation in 600 AD

Don't forget the return 777bc

Given we've only been transmitting for ~150yrs, we'd only be seeing responses from within ~75ly.

Fair point. I was thinking in terms of us picking up “stray” EM from another planet as “proof of life.”

Ultimately we need to solve faster-than-light travel otherwise we’re basically stuck - our “multi-planetary species” will be limited to a bunch of not-very-hospitable rocks. FTL comms would at least allow us to communicate with (supposed) alien species (although we’d also need FTL sensors to detect them).

The important factor in doing so is to stop saying “this is impossible” and start thinking “we haven’t solved this yet.” We can’t change our world through orthodoxy

Agree on the mentality part

I doubt we would need FTL comms to detect ETs, but obviously to communicate with them.

The most realistic of the hypothetical FTL comms proposals is likely to be able to create a micro wormhole of some form.

Quantum entanglement is not superluminal.

[skwdenyer]

annodomini2 said:

skwdenyer said:

annodomini2 said:

skwdenyer said:

SpudLink said:

I’ll post this here as it addresses a possible solution to the Fermi paradox. It might just be that we are among the first space faring civilisations because the universe was too hostile for multicellular life in its first few billion years.

Animated for kids, but Kurzgesagt videos are always worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/GDSf2h9_39I

Isn't the practical problem that most of the universe is so far away that, even if other civilisations are out there at the same stage of development as us we're just not going to see it. Somewhere like Kepler-452b is 1400 light years away. We weren't putting out much EM radiation in 600 AD

Don't forget the return 777bc

Given we've only been transmitting for ~150yrs, we'd only be seeing responses from within ~75ly.

Fair point. I was thinking in terms of us picking up “stray” EM from another planet as “proof of life.”

Ultimately we need to solve faster-than-light travel otherwise we’re basically stuck - our “multi-planetary species” will be limited to a bunch of not-very-hospitable rocks. FTL comms would at least allow us to communicate with (supposed) alien species (although we’d also need FTL sensors to detect them).

The important factor in doing so is to stop saying “this is impossible” and start thinking “we haven’t solved this yet.” We can’t change our world through orthodoxy

Agree on the mentality part

I doubt we would need FTL comms to detect ETs, but obviously to communicate with them.

The most realistic of the hypothetical FTL comms proposals is likely to be able to create a micro wormhole of some form.

Quantum entanglement is not superluminal.

My school physics master put it well: "Everything we think we know about the universe is a lie. It is a better lie than the last one. In time it will probably be replaced by a better lie still. But we can't interview the atoms and ask them why the act as they do. All we can do is look at what we can see; hypothesise why things are the way they are; accept the errors and approximations inherent in our models, and then test those models - those lies - on more and more examples in hopes of improvement."

There are plenty of people queuing-up to say that FTL travel is impossible, because it breaks the laws of physics. Yet those same "laws" of physics cannot explain the majority of what we can see - every part of the universe defies the "laws" of physics. We know that our laws of physics are not yet complete. History tells us that even those we think are sufficiently-complete might be wholly wrong-headed "lies" to explain what we do not understand and may be swept away by some new and better lie.

We don't have to dismiss all that is currently believed to be true to remain open and questioning. So long as we do that, progress can be made.

[Reginald Molehusband]

skwdenyer said:

My school physics master put it well: "Everything we think we know about the universe is a lie. It is a better lie than the last one. In time it will probably be replaced by a better lie still. But we can't interview the atoms and ask them why the act as they do. All we can do is look at what we can see; hypothesise why things are the way they are; accept the errors and approximations inherent in our models, and then test those models - those lies - on more and more examples in hopes of improvement."

There are plenty of people queuing-up to say that FTL travel is impossible, because it breaks the laws of physics. Yet those same "laws" of physics cannot explain the majority of what we can see - every part of the universe defies the "laws" of physics. We know that our laws of physics are not yet complete. History tells us that even those we think are sufficiently-complete might be wholly wrong-headed "lies" to explain what we do not understand and may be swept away by some new and better lie.

We don't have to dismiss all that is currently believed to be true to remain open and questioning. So long as we do that, progress can be made.

A "like" button would be useful on Pistonheads. However, I like that, a lot.

[dukeboy749r]

Agreed.

Have a , instead.

[TGCOTF-dewey]

skwdenyer said:

My school physics master put it well: "Everything we think we know about the universe is a lie. It is a better lie than the last one. In time it will probably be replaced by a better lie still. But we can't interview the atoms and ask them why the act as they do. All we can do is look at what we can see; hypothesise why things are the way they are; accept the errors and approximations inherent in our models, and then test those models - those lies - on more and more examples in hopes of improvement."

There are plenty of people queuing-up to say that FTL travel is impossible, because it breaks the laws of physics. Yet those same "laws" of physics cannot explain the majority of what we can see - every part of the universe defies the "laws" of physics. We know that our laws of physics are not yet complete. History tells us that even those we think are sufficiently-complete might be wholly wrong-headed "lies" to explain what we do not understand and may be swept away by some new and better lie.

We don't have to dismiss all that is currently believed to be true to remain open and questioning. So long as we do that, progress can be made.

I bet he'd read 'Noise Level' by Raymond F Jones...fabulous sci-fi short from 1952.

It's a great tale of the need to avoid dogma in science.

Can't find a version of it online...but here's youtube summary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBXmB1OLwMk

ETA..ah..hadn't realised it was a summary to justify UFOs and anti-grav. Ignore that bit of the summary. It's just a good story.

Edited by TGCOTF-dewey on Thursday 13th April 16:49

[PRTVR]

Professor Simon Holland with an idea that instead of distance, it could be different plains, this would work in with the lack of weight in the universe, scientists reckon it should be a lot heavier.
https://youtu.be/J_qbtJVVkX0

[QJumper]

Surely it's all just guesswork though.

If the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs, and opened the door for the rise of mammals, hit 95 million years ago instead of 65 million, then theoretically we could have been 30 million years more advanced than we are today, and whizzing about the universe in ways we've yet to dream about.

Equally, intelligent life could have developed elsewhere millions of years ahead of us. If that happened, to the extent that they were visiting us today, then it's just as likely that they've been doing so for thousands of years, rather than just deciding to pop in now.

I'm not particularly convinced by mysterious lights in the sky being aliens though. If anyone was advanced enough to have travelled here, and didn't want to widely announce themselves, then I imagine their technology would be capable of allowing them to fly around without lights.

[dukeboy749r]

Nooooooooo

Plus, not just any lights! Coloured lights!

[V8RAW]

dukeboy749r said:

Nooooooooo

Plus, not just any lights! Coloured lights!

Aliens may be flying around in BMW's - no indicators 😁

[RSTurboPaul]

It seems we have downed UFOs that we are trying to back-engineer:

https://twitter.com/JeremyCorbell/status/164728624...




I think the clip is taken from a series on Youtube titled 'Weaponized' by Jeremy Corbell:

https://www.youtube.com/@JeremyCorbell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PJLD6LLMUY

[SpudLink]

Hmm. Where have I heard that before?

[Silver3ides]

Watch live: NASA holds first public meeting on UFO study

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqvi9TeXrXI

[Killer2005]

Silver3ides said:

Watch live: NASA holds first public meeting on UFO study

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqvi9TeXrXI

Some interesting stuff on there.

[Acorn1]

Killer2005 said:

Silver3ides said:

Watch live: NASA holds first public meeting on UFO study

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqvi9TeXrXI

Some interesting stuff on there.

There is some stuff we can't explain

[Pupp]

It’s interesting to me (at least) that significant resources are now being allocated to allowing some debate rather than stifling it.

I’m a net sceptic still and by some margin but am in no small measure intrigued by the apparent official desire to normalise the topic as something within the range of rational discussion. At least in the US.

Any other nations doing similar?

[skwdenyer]

Pupp said:

It’s interesting to me (at least) that significant resources are now being allocated to allowing some debate rather than stifling it.

I’m a net sceptic still and by some margin but am in no small measure intrigued by the apparent official desire to normalise the topic as something within the range of rational discussion. At least in the US.

Any other nations doing similar?

The other interesting thing is the apparent admission from Colm Kelleher (former programme director of an appreciable - $22m - US Govt-funded UFO X-files-type programme, it seem) that the US Govt is in possession of downed UFOs (listen from this point in the interview - the key question is at 1:16:30 or so.

[WrekinCrew]

skwdenyer said:

There are plenty of people queuing-up to say that FTL travel is impossible, because it breaks the laws of physics...

I thought you couldn't travel at the speed of light because there's a 1- v squared / c squared term in the denominator of one of Einstein's mass equations, and the universe would have a divide-by-zero error. But it doesn't say you can't travel faster, the problem is accelerating to over c without actually passing c on the way.