UFO Thread

[DanL]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If I were a betting man, I’d pick cryogenics. Once you crack that, you don’t need energy or resources. Freeze the crew, get up to speed and in the direction you want to go, then shut everything down and open the ship to vacuum to keep everyone frozen until it’s time to slow down and defrost.

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The physics better supports trans-dimensional than FTL.

[rxe]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Sure, that’s the alternative. But the MO for that is a great big thing lumbering into view at about 0.5% C, we’d see the deceleration burn about half a light year away. What we “seem” to have is random small objects hurtling about chasing fighter planes. Unless they are the size of mice, and the thing annoying the fighters IS the generation ship ..... But even if we had theoretical mouse overlords, a generation ship would be the size of a house, and be quite hard to hide.

[SpudLink]

rxe said:

Sure, that’s the alternative. But the MO for that is a great big thing lumbering into view at about 0.5% C, we’d see the deceleration burn about half a light year away. What we “seem” to have is random small objects hurtling about chasing fighter planes. Unless they are the size of mice, and the thing annoying the fighters IS the generation ship ..... But even if we had theoretical mouse overlords, a generation ship would be the size of a house, and be quite hard to hide.

Obviously the house sized generation ship is hiding behind the moon. Bored young mice go out joy riding to buzz fighter planes for a bit of a laugh.

(Why is this in the science thread?)

[RegMolehusband]

Don't scientists consider and discuss the possibility of FTL and trans-dimensional travel?

[Ayahuasca]

rxe said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Sure, that’s the alternative. But the MO for that is a great big thing lumbering into view at about 0.5% C, we’d see the deceleration burn about half a light year away. What we “seem” to have is random small objects hurtling about chasing fighter planes. Unless they are the size of mice, and the thing annoying the fighters IS the generation ship ..... But even if we had theoretical mouse overlords, a generation ship would be the size of a house, and be quite hard to hide.

Aliens could be digitized into a genome sequence, close to zero mass so easy to accelerate / decelerate, that requires no life support, in a cheap, mouse-sized ship. They wouldn't need a propulsion system, could be fired like bullets across the universe by space cannon. When they arrive, they reanimate.

[eharding]

Ayahuasca said:

rxe said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Sure, that’s the alternative. But the MO for that is a great big thing lumbering into view at about 0.5% C, we’d see the deceleration burn about half a light year away. What we “seem” to have is random small objects hurtling about chasing fighter planes. Unless they are the size of mice, and the thing annoying the fighters IS the generation ship ..... But even if we had theoretical mouse overlords, a generation ship would be the size of a house, and be quite hard to hide.

Aliens could be digitized into a genome sequence, close to zero mass so easy to accelerate / decelerate, that requires no life support, in a cheap, mouse-sized ship. They wouldn't need a propulsion system, could be fired like bullets across the universe by space cannon. When they arrive, they reanimate.

Why would you mess about with some icky biological goo though? As a species, I think we'll work out how to transfer out human consciousness (whatever that turns out to be) into artificial substrates long before we are capable of sending interstellar probes - and when that consciousness becomes to all intents and purposes immortal (provided you can keep the power on), then even if you're looking at tens or hundreds of thousands of years to travel those distances the times involved don't seem so bad.

The problem is we keep trying to cram the scale of the cosmos into something our teeny-tiny gone-in-the-blink-of-an-eye human existence can relate to, and the fantasy of FTL / pan-dimensional travel is a mechanism to try and cope with it.

[105.4]

Came here hoping for intelligent discourse. It’s hardly a surprise that this thread has ended up as many do on this forum.

I know that several of you fellas enjoying belittling others in an effort to try and make yourself appear like a powerfully built company Director, but is there any chance that maybe, just maybe, this thread could be a little less like a primary school playground?

Whatever it is that the USA Armed Forces has been seeing / tracking over the last few years, (secret US tech, secret Chinese or Russian tech, or little green men), I certainly find it fascinating and I’d be very interested to know what those more knowledgeable that I think of these recent sightings.

[Eric Mc]

There are "no more knowledgeable" in regards to fantasyland musings.

It's always a dead topic when anyone tries to discuss it in a scientific or engineering context. Its only valid inclusion in the science forum is when the discussing the psychology of those who WISH that these odd sightings really were aliens.

[Wayoftheflower]

As much as I'd like "The Culture" to appear over the horizon with the promise of a post-scarcity society and solutions to all our other human ills there's only the slimmest of chances.

Even keeping within the seemingly universal lightspeed limit and commiting to still really quite long loooooooong journeys to the stars there's still the tyranny of the Rocket equation.

But what about reactionless drives?
Well friends don't let friends invent reactionless drives

Any reactionless drive tech means you've also just invented a relativistic kill vehicle (RKV) and have access the the interesting end of the boom table.
With sufficient patience even the most insignificant breaking of Newton's 3rd Law will result in small lumps of mass having Megaton level destructive potential.

The dark forest is slightly safer without c speed projectiles.



-Yes I fell down the Project Rho rabbithole hard, like I do every few years.

Frameshift drive charging.

[105.4]

Eric Mc said:

There are "no more knowledgeable" in regards to fantasyland musings.

It's always a dead topic when anyone tries to discuss it in a scientific or engineering context. Its only valid inclusion in the science forum is when the discussing the psychology of those who WISH that these odd sightings really were aliens.

I’m quite surprised by your tack on this subject matter Eric, (that’s not meant as a slight btw). I guess I just figured you wrong.

Until a few years ago I would have been highly sceptical of any unidentified flying object sightings. Then the tic-tack video came out, followed by interviews with one of the pilots involved, followed by the US Government admitting it didn’t have a clue what these things were.

Now, I’m not saying it’s E.T, but I would be interested to know what other people think a lot of these recent sightings are.

Secret USA tech?
Secret tech from other nations?
Natural phenomena?
Fantasy musings from idiots?
Or E.T?

When it comes to flight aircraft, I think it would be fair to say that you know more than most Eric. Have you seen any of the recent military surveillance footage? Have you listened to any of the interviews from the Navy pilots involved? What would you hazard a guess what these various unknown objects are?

[Ayahuasca]

The last time the ‘UFO’s’ seen by the US military pilots were discussed here someone posted a link to a site that seemed to debunk the aliens theory. Iirc it was more likely to have been something like balloons that appeared to move quickly because of the distance from the aircraft, the angle of sight and the aircraft’s own speed.

[SpudLink]

Ayahuasca said:

The last time the ‘UFO’s’ seen by the US military pilots were discussed here someone posted a link to a site that seemed to debunk the aliens theory. Iirc it was more likely to have been something like balloons that appeared to move quickly because of the distance from the aircraft, the angle of sight and the aircraft’s own speed.

This one? He does give that explanation for one of the sightings.

[rxe]

105.4 said:

I’m quite surprised by your tack on this subject matter Eric, (that’s not meant as a slight btw). I guess I just figured you wrong.

Until a few years ago I would have been highly sceptical of any unidentified flying object sightings. Then the tic-tack video came out, followed by interviews with one of the pilots involved, followed by the US Government admitting it didn’t have a clue what these things were.

Now, I’m not saying it’s E.T, but I would be interested to know what other people think a lot of these recent sightings are.

Secret USA tech?
Secret tech from other nations?
Natural phenomena?
Fantasy musings from idiots?
Or E.T?

When it comes to flight aircraft, I think it would be fair to say that you know more than most Eric. Have you seen any of the recent military surveillance footage? Have you listened to any of the interviews from the Navy pilots involved? What would you hazard a guess what these various unknown objects are?

One of the first three, probably US technology. What these videos seem to mostly show is an object of some sort, moving in a manner that can be easily tracked by existing military tech. How long ago were the US secret mob playing about with early versions of a Stealth Bomber? Stick that in front of state of the art 70s tech and the reaction would be the same:

- was invisible on radar (which would have been _impossible_ in the 70s)
- did not emit vast quantities of heat, so can't have been jet powered
- weird shape
- is quite quick
- US government denies the existence.

Definitely aliens....

I have no clue what the state of the art in experimental planes is these days, but they might well have cracked a reaction engines a-like technology that allows reasonably efficient hypersonic drives, that don't generate vast amounts of heat. Remote controlled, so pulling immense G is only limited by airframe design.

As soon as you suggest the answer is aliens, the boundary of credibility is a lot further away.

Per the earlier discussion, you've got two main groups of theoretical aliens:

- Group 1 - who have an FTL drive and for whom a jaunt to Earth is nothing special. Much more advanced than us, so why are they mucking about getting noticed by military aircraft? If they wanted to stay hidden, the planes would not have stood a chance tracking them. If they don't care about being seen, why are they not landing in Central Park, which would be much more interesting.

- Group 2 - who have arrived deep-frozen on a generation ship. Less advanced than group 1. Where is the ship, and where are the aliens? They've either come here to say hello, or invade us. Either way, I'd expect to have seen them decelerating.

If the aliens are software-based consciousnesses, then why are they mucking about with ships anyway?

[Eric Mc]

105.4 said:

I’m quite surprised by your tack on this subject matter Eric, (that’s not meant as a slight btw). I guess I just figured you wrong.

Until a few years ago I would have been highly sceptical of any unidentified flying object sightings. Then the tic-tack video came out, followed by interviews with one of the pilots involved, followed by the US Government admitting it didn’t have a clue what these things were.

Now, I’m not saying it’s E.T, but I would be interested to know what other people think a lot of these recent sightings are.

Secret USA tech?
Secret tech from other nations?
Natural phenomena?
Fantasy musings from idiots?
Or E.T?

When it comes to flight aircraft, I think it would be fair to say that you know more than most Eric. Have you seen any of the recent military surveillance footage? Have you listened to any of the interviews from the Navy pilots involved? What would you hazard a guess what these various unknown objects are?

I've spent decades being a "sky watcher" due to my hobbies and interests so will have inordinately more "sky" knowledge than the average punter and I have NEVER seen anything in the sky that could not be explained by the ordinary and the mundane.

Most people who spot "UFOs" are generally sky ignorant and relatively unaware of the types of things they might see if they looked more often or paid attention to the sky.

As for mysterious military aircraft, yes, they can exist and have done so in the past. They eventually emerge from hiding and get properly revealed for what they are. You generally need to be in the right area where such experimental craft are being tested to see them - so gawking upwards from the Basingstoke Tesco's car park is not likely to reveal to you the latest in ultra secret hypersonic drones (or whatever) technology.

The vast bulk of people who are enthusiastic about linking things they don't understand in the sky to aliens and alien technology are essentially misguided and ignorant with a "wish fulfilment" attitude. They WANT these things THEY don't understand to be something dramatic and important.

[Scabutz]

Just as an aside was it not the US Government who started the rumours about Area 51 housing aliens, to divert attention away from the secret planes they were building there?

This thread seems to be going off at a tangent. Any life able to travel FTL or warp spacetime, isn't going to be buzzing a couple of planes, or anally probing random nutters.

Occams razer says if there are observable things that cannot be explained then it's going to be secret tech, and quite possibly US tech, the grunts on a warship aren't going to be privy to ultra secret st.

[deckster]

rxe said:

If the aliens are software-based consciousnesses, then why are they mucking about with ships anyway?

Quite, and that's totally where my money is going. Even with currently-envisaged tech, it's no great stretch to imagine a general AI probably running on a quantum substrate of some ilk, which would be very small and able to be powered by some kind of fusion reactor basically forever. Wrap that in a massively strong unobtanium shell, and you've got something that can quite happily traverse even galactic distances using sub-FTL flight.

[Wayoftheflower]

deckster said:

rxe said:

If the aliens are software-based consciousnesses, then why are they mucking about with ships anyway?

Quite, and that's totally where my money is going. Even with currently-envisaged tech, it's no great stretch to imagine a general AI probably running on a quantum substrate of some ilk, which would be very small and able to be powered by some kind of fusion reactor basically forever. Wrap that in a massively strong unobtanium shell, and you've got something that can quite happily traverse even galactic distances using sub-FTL flight.

Miniaturised and malicious you've got a Sophon from Three Body Problem.
Out of control and self replicating is a Hegswarm/Reaper.
Oversized and inscrutable is Rama.

Fingers crossed for inscrutable LGM...

[Paddymcc]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Then again why would they bother to hide their existence.

Have you seen how we react to our own kind that is a different colour of skin or sexuality?

[rxe]

Paddymcc said:

Have you seen how we react to our own kind that is a different colour of skin or sexuality?

If we’re talking about aliens who have come here for a jaunt, then quite frankly our opinions and reactions really wouldn’t matter. We’d probably worship them as gods. The would be able to manipulate energy (and hence matter) at a scale that would defy our comprehension. They would have no more need to worry about us than we would worry about encountering a chimpanzee.