How to learn to fix/tinker/restore your car?
Discussion
Haynes manuals also have a diagnosis section at the back - useful if you're not sure whats causing a particular problem. If you're going to make it more than a one time effort then it is worth buying tools in sets rather than individual items, over time you'll need a full set of sockets and spanners for example.
When you find yourself doing services early and replacing parts just so 'it keeps it running sweet' you know you're hooked.
and the 2nd time you do any job will be a whooooole lot easier than the first. I don't think you really need to buy another car to practice on, just fix jobs as they come up with the aid of a manual and t'interweb - you'll soon work out whats tricky. 
When you find yourself doing services early and replacing parts just so 'it keeps it running sweet' you know you're hooked.
and the 2nd time you do any job will be a whooooole lot easier than the first. I don't think you really need to buy another car to practice on, just fix jobs as they come up with the aid of a manual and t'interweb - you'll soon work out whats tricky. If you really don't know one end of a spanner from the other, how about starting off with something simpler than a whole car. For me as a kid, it was tinkering with old petrol mowers - overall broadly similar construction methods & principles to a car in a much more manageable & cost & space effective package. At the end of it at worst you can chuck it at the tip or you end up with a convenient way if cutting the grass! Then move onto the simpler car routine servicing & brake pads & discs etc.
Owners forums are a god send. I had no one to show me anything when I started driving and couldn't afford a mechanic so had no choice but to get stuck in.
It's intimidating when you look into an engine bay at first and see lots of pipes and hoses, but once you get an understanding of fuelling, coolant systems etc it all starts to make sense. Youtube and Google are great for this. Want to know how a coolant system works because your radiator is disintegrating? Google it.
Just buy the tools as you need them, although a decent screwdriver set, socket set and some axle stands are a must. And a hammer. A big one.
Also one of these makes oil changes a piece of piss
Helpful forum members often post times to complete the job. When you're doing something for the first time factor in an extra half hour at least. Then triple it. Nothing worse than having your back brakes lying in pieces on the driveway in the pissing rain 6 hours before you have to go to work.
And never, ever think "that bit is a little small but will probably do the job for this final screw holding my wing on".
I tend to just learn as things go wrong, get caught out all the time though. Smugly told the mother I'd call down and swap out her blown bulbs for MOT after stripping down my axle for some maintenance and 2 hours later I still hadn't managed to even remove the sidelight bulb on her C5.
It's intimidating when you look into an engine bay at first and see lots of pipes and hoses, but once you get an understanding of fuelling, coolant systems etc it all starts to make sense. Youtube and Google are great for this. Want to know how a coolant system works because your radiator is disintegrating? Google it.
Just buy the tools as you need them, although a decent screwdriver set, socket set and some axle stands are a must. And a hammer. A big one.
Also one of these makes oil changes a piece of piss
Helpful forum members often post times to complete the job. When you're doing something for the first time factor in an extra half hour at least. Then triple it. Nothing worse than having your back brakes lying in pieces on the driveway in the pissing rain 6 hours before you have to go to work.
And never, ever think "that bit is a little small but will probably do the job for this final screw holding my wing on".
I tend to just learn as things go wrong, get caught out all the time though. Smugly told the mother I'd call down and swap out her blown bulbs for MOT after stripping down my axle for some maintenance and 2 hours later I still hadn't managed to even remove the sidelight bulb on her C5.
Growing up with cheap cars being simple and unreliable (80's)
Most cars over 5 years old were rusty, and cars had carbs, 1 cam, and 8 valves. Access around an engine was relatively simple as you didn't have a/c, power steering, arch liners, engine covers etc. Needing special tools was the stuff of legend.
As an example i recently needed to replace the the fuel pump on my mondeo. The tank had to be drained and removed to get at it. In the 80's they were normally seperate. Another example is a cam belt change. i did loads in the 80's, but when I tried to do my first mondeo, you had to remove a wheel, the arch liner, and an engine mount before you removed the cover.
The mondeo was the point I started using garages.
Most cars over 5 years old were rusty, and cars had carbs, 1 cam, and 8 valves. Access around an engine was relatively simple as you didn't have a/c, power steering, arch liners, engine covers etc. Needing special tools was the stuff of legend.
As an example i recently needed to replace the the fuel pump on my mondeo. The tank had to be drained and removed to get at it. In the 80's they were normally seperate. Another example is a cam belt change. i did loads in the 80's, but when I tried to do my first mondeo, you had to remove a wheel, the arch liner, and an engine mount before you removed the cover.
The mondeo was the point I started using garages.
Buy a simple car, a haynes manual, some basic tools and get cracking !
Basic servicing is easy - oil, filters, plugs, ignition components all easy to change
You can decipher wiring quite easily with a simple multimeter
I had help from friends to show me the basics but am quite comfortable tackling most jobs on my old car on my own now.
Anything that involves plugging a laptop in to the diagnostic socket though I give to someone else though !
Basic servicing is easy - oil, filters, plugs, ignition components all easy to change
You can decipher wiring quite easily with a simple multimeter
I had help from friends to show me the basics but am quite comfortable tackling most jobs on my old car on my own now.
Anything that involves plugging a laptop in to the diagnostic socket though I give to someone else though !
Art0ir said:
Owners forums are a god send. I had no one to show me anything when I started driving and couldn't afford a mechanic so had no choice but to get stuck in.
It's intimidating when you look into an engine bay at first and see lots of pipes and hoses, but once you get an understanding of fuelling, coolant systems etc it all starts to make sense. Youtube and Google are great for this. Want to know how a coolant system works because your radiator is disintegrating? Google it.
It's intimidating when you look into an engine bay at first and see lots of pipes and hoses, but once you get an understanding of fuelling, coolant systems etc it all starts to make sense. Youtube and Google are great for this. Want to know how a coolant system works because your radiator is disintegrating? Google it.
J4CKO said:
Get a PC in your garage, its great for playing music and ordering stuff, looking at forums for help and ideas etc, best tool I ever put in my garage!
Very interesting to see these quotes. Are Haynes manuals going to be another casualty of the digital age? Who needs a manual when you have YouTube and owners club forums?I googled "Honda CRV battery" when I needed to replace the battery recently - one of the first results on the page was a YouTube clip of some Mexican kid (maybe 9 or 10 years old) changing the battery on an old CRV. I figured that if he could do it, then there was no excuse for me not to do it.
As others have said, getting into car maintenance is easier if you have a decent-sized garage, with heat and light. Not much fun doing stuff out in the cold, especially if you don't really know what you're doing, and you don't want to look like a tit in front of neighbours and passers by.
Edited by excel monkey on Wednesday 6th March 16:52
ninjacost said:
Futuramic said:
The myth perpetuated by mosr in the trade is that this stuff is difficult!
i'm with you on this one :-)19 pages (and counting) of 'fail' stories suggests otherwise!!
excel monkey said:
Art0ir said:
Owners forums are a god send. I had no one to show me anything when I started driving and couldn't afford a mechanic so had no choice but to get stuck in.
It's intimidating when you look into an engine bay at first and see lots of pipes and hoses, but once you get an understanding of fuelling, coolant systems etc it all starts to make sense. Youtube and Google are great for this. Want to know how a coolant system works because your radiator is disintegrating? Google it.
It's intimidating when you look into an engine bay at first and see lots of pipes and hoses, but once you get an understanding of fuelling, coolant systems etc it all starts to make sense. Youtube and Google are great for this. Want to know how a coolant system works because your radiator is disintegrating? Google it.
J4CKO said:
Get a PC in your garage, its great for playing music and ordering stuff, looking at forums for help and ideas etc, best tool I ever put in my garage!
Very interesting to see these quotes. Are Haynes manuals going to be another casualty of the digital age? Who needs a manual when you have YouTube and owners club forums?I googled "Honda CRV battery" when I needed to replace the battery recently - one of the first results on the page was a YouTube clip of some Mexican kid (maybe 9 or 10 years old) changing the battery on an old CRV. I figured that if he could do it, then there was no excuse for me not to do it.
As others have said, getting into car maintenance is easier if you have a decent-sized garage, with heat and light. Not much fun doing stuff out in the cold, especially if you don't really know what you're doing, and you don't want to look like a tit in front of neighbours and passers by.
Edited by excel monkey on Wednesday 6th March 16:52
The forums make your realise what is possible, the things some owners tackle is amazing, I saw this thread about a year ago and was astounded what was possible,
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.p...
I bookmarked it, and when ready ordered the kit and did the seats in my 944 and they have come out really well, we used to rely on word of mouth but the internet has changed all that, if you get into difficulty you can ask questions.
I'd suggest starting by just buying a Haynes manual and using it to troubleshoot any issues that arise. In each case, the manual will help you to identify the part at fault and explain how you remove and replace it.
Once you find out what's gone wrong in each case, take a look, decide whether you think you can do it, weigh up the cost of buying the tools and parts you'll need versus taking it to your local garage, and before long you'll find yourself doing more and more.
If you hit a job you don't reckon you can do, when you book it into the garage ask whether you can be with the car when the mechanic repairs it. I've also found that if you can take the car to the garage and say 'this has gone wrong with it' rather than 'it's making a funny noise' or 'the brakes are juddering', you'll gain more respect with the staff and they're more likely to agree to talk you through what they're doing.
People seem to be amazed when garages seem to over-charge them to repair the abused, poorly-maintained car they often leave with them, cluelessly and vaguely saying it's broken, then affecting an arrogant 'the man with the oily fingers can sort it all out while I go off and do something more important' attitude when dealing with them. If I had to put up with muppets like this day-in day-out, I'd probably try and overcharge them too.
And once you know how it's done, if you've got the tools, then in future you can do it yourself. I'm tempted to have a crack at replacing my own brake pads next time given how straightforward it was for the mechanic to remove the front caliper when I had it replaced last month.
Once you find out what's gone wrong in each case, take a look, decide whether you think you can do it, weigh up the cost of buying the tools and parts you'll need versus taking it to your local garage, and before long you'll find yourself doing more and more.
If you hit a job you don't reckon you can do, when you book it into the garage ask whether you can be with the car when the mechanic repairs it. I've also found that if you can take the car to the garage and say 'this has gone wrong with it' rather than 'it's making a funny noise' or 'the brakes are juddering', you'll gain more respect with the staff and they're more likely to agree to talk you through what they're doing.
People seem to be amazed when garages seem to over-charge them to repair the abused, poorly-maintained car they often leave with them, cluelessly and vaguely saying it's broken, then affecting an arrogant 'the man with the oily fingers can sort it all out while I go off and do something more important' attitude when dealing with them. If I had to put up with muppets like this day-in day-out, I'd probably try and overcharge them too.
And once you know how it's done, if you've got the tools, then in future you can do it yourself. I'm tempted to have a crack at replacing my own brake pads next time given how straightforward it was for the mechanic to remove the front caliper when I had it replaced last month.
I learnt by having a simple 1st car, being poor and having a Haynes manual. Started on things like changing the alternator belt or bulbs and simple servicing and worked my way up to being able to to the cambelt or change dampers/ CV joints etc.
As my tool collection increases my knowledge of how to do things does to as I'll buy a tool for the job I need to do. Most things are really not that hard, it's just a matter of actually trying. Unless its a new computery, very fine tolerances sort of car then there's no reason to have a go.
Now I have my MX5 I'll be tinkering all the time to see how it works.
The only things I leave to someone else are brakes because they're pretty vital.
As my tool collection increases my knowledge of how to do things does to as I'll buy a tool for the job I need to do. Most things are really not that hard, it's just a matter of actually trying. Unless its a new computery, very fine tolerances sort of car then there's no reason to have a go.
Now I have my MX5 I'll be tinkering all the time to see how it works.
The only things I leave to someone else are brakes because they're pretty vital.
excel monkey said:
Very interesting to see these quotes. Are Haynes manuals going to be another casualty of the digital age? Who needs a manual when you have YouTube and owners club forums?
I doubt it, simply because I don't want to get my laptop covered in oil and grease, or run the risk of dropping a spanner on it. I'd far rather have a £10 book to prop on an under-bonnet cross-brace than £400-worth of computer.Owners' Clubs are great, although I wouldn't necessarily go down the forum route. Most clubs have a particular model 'guru' who knows the cars inside-out. Phoning them up and getting them to talk you through a procedure is the best way to go about it. Forums have a nasty habit of throwing up half a dozen different solutions to your problems, none of which work.
Lap top on the passenger seat and get stuck in! Nothing is too hard. Main thing is not to break stuff through having heavy hands! Remain calm when the thing is in bits and sometimes you just have to take a few hours off and think things through!
Confidence is everything really! That and a good set of tools. It's amazing what two pairs of hands can do sometimes as well!
Some mechanics I've seen are absolute chimps, so if they can do it, so can you!
Confidence is everything really! That and a good set of tools. It's amazing what two pairs of hands can do sometimes as well!
Some mechanics I've seen are absolute chimps, so if they can do it, so can you!
I was quite lucky really, my dad used to do the basics and I'd help him out when I was younger. That's what sparked the interest. When I was 16 I got a job at a family owned garage sweeping the floors on a Saturday; this progressed into full time work during college and uni holidays for the next 5 or 6 years. By the end I was tackling any job that came into the garage and messing about on my own cars. I even learned a bit of body work and welding.
It's been the most valuable experience of my life, I've never had to pay anybody else to work on my cars. I must have saved thousands over the years!
Gaining knowledge from an experienced mechanic is obviously the best way to learn it. If an evening course is possible then I'd be tempted to go for that.
But there is a lot of very useful information on the Internet and most jobs really aren't that difficult to just get stuck into to get a feel for things. Spannering is one of those things you just have to do and the more you do it the better you'll get, anyone can do it given enough time and enthusiasm.
It's been the most valuable experience of my life, I've never had to pay anybody else to work on my cars. I must have saved thousands over the years!
Gaining knowledge from an experienced mechanic is obviously the best way to learn it. If an evening course is possible then I'd be tempted to go for that.
But there is a lot of very useful information on the Internet and most jobs really aren't that difficult to just get stuck into to get a feel for things. Spannering is one of those things you just have to do and the more you do it the better you'll get, anyone can do it given enough time and enthusiasm.
Twincam16 said:
excel monkey said:
Very interesting to see these quotes. Are Haynes manuals going to be another casualty of the digital age? Who needs a manual when you have YouTube and owners club forums?
I doubt it, simply because I don't want to get my laptop covered in oil and grease, or run the risk of dropping a spanner on it. I'd far rather have a £10 book to prop on an under-bonnet cross-brace than £400-worth of computer.Out of interest, do you do much spanner work on your MR2? I imagine they're a pain in the butt to work on.
excel monkey said:
Twincam16 said:
excel monkey said:
Very interesting to see these quotes. Are Haynes manuals going to be another casualty of the digital age? Who needs a manual when you have YouTube and owners club forums?
I doubt it, simply because I don't want to get my laptop covered in oil and grease, or run the risk of dropping a spanner on it. I'd far rather have a £10 book to prop on an under-bonnet cross-brace than £400-worth of computer.Out of interest, do you do much spanner work on your MR2? I imagine they're a pain in the butt to work on.
SpeedySpeedBoy said:
I think the haynes manual just shows how to repair your car. Is there a recommended concise book which goes through all the theory of how a car works?
I think I say this in all these threads: AA Book of the Car.It's old (1970s), but it explains all the basic principles of how the various bits of a car work, and most of it is still relevant. You can pick up a copy for under a fiver on eBay.
Start jobs early on a Saturday morning and have spare transport just in case. (Push bike, motorbike, car, skateboard, you need to be able to get to work and the local car parts shop easy enough)
On old cars everything becomes an epic.
I recently bought a new fender for my e46 and painted it myself. Watched YouTube videos and gave it a go. Last night I decided I was bored of seeing rust on my otherwise lovely car so I just did it. Head torch on.
I ended up stripping a seized bolt. This meant I couldn't get the f
king fender off but I had already stripped the inner arch liner and taken off every other bolt. I ended up tearing the entire panel off with a humongous set of bolt cutters.
I won't forget the time I went to change brake pads and ended up doing the carriers, calipers, discs, pads, fluid and hoses too. I was grateful my mate could drive me to the parts shop.
On old cars everything becomes an epic.
I recently bought a new fender for my e46 and painted it myself. Watched YouTube videos and gave it a go. Last night I decided I was bored of seeing rust on my otherwise lovely car so I just did it. Head torch on.
I ended up stripping a seized bolt. This meant I couldn't get the f
king fender off but I had already stripped the inner arch liner and taken off every other bolt. I ended up tearing the entire panel off with a humongous set of bolt cutters.I won't forget the time I went to change brake pads and ended up doing the carriers, calipers, discs, pads, fluid and hoses too. I was grateful my mate could drive me to the parts shop.
I learnt the basics on my most modern car, as soon as it was out of warranty I was on it with a tool set. As I then bought older cars (90's and 60's vehicles) I was straight into those with tool sets too. By learning on the most modern, I'm not afraid to touch it despite it being "delicate", full of computes and sensors etc.
Things that help I find are:
- Haynes manuals, they explain how to do specific jobs for your specific vehicle. The other useful thing is that they list torque settings, fluid specs for different components such as gearbox/engine/axles and so on, often which can be difficult to find using a Google search with some degree of accuracy.
- Official manufacturer service and repair workshop manual, my modern car doesn't have a Haynes available so I use the above, although it's on the computer as opposed to book form, it contains instructions on how to change just about every part of the vehicle. The other massive benefit is that you can look up part numbers, need an obscure fitting? No problem, part number is simply there for the taking.
- Owners club forums, there is a brilliant owners club for the ZT & 75, it seems like some of the people on there know more about these cars than Rover themselves did. Most issues with cars won't be unique to your car, they'll have happened to identical cars therefore a search on an owners club forum can often explain that strange symptom of XYZ and the best way to go about fixing.
- YouTube, watch a video on how to do something before you do it, as has been said an oil change is pretty much the same on any car, it's just the locations of filter housing, oil cap, dipstick and sump plug that can vary slightly between vehicles.
- Get on with it. You'll only learn your car by getting hands on with it, all of the above helps diagnose problems, find the correct replacement parts and what the repair procedure is, but without actually getting your hands dirty you'll never learn why you have to use your left hand as opposed to right hand because of how awkward it is to reach something. A fair chunk of it is muscle memory.
Things that help I find are:
- Haynes manuals, they explain how to do specific jobs for your specific vehicle. The other useful thing is that they list torque settings, fluid specs for different components such as gearbox/engine/axles and so on, often which can be difficult to find using a Google search with some degree of accuracy.
- Official manufacturer service and repair workshop manual, my modern car doesn't have a Haynes available so I use the above, although it's on the computer as opposed to book form, it contains instructions on how to change just about every part of the vehicle. The other massive benefit is that you can look up part numbers, need an obscure fitting? No problem, part number is simply there for the taking.
- Owners club forums, there is a brilliant owners club for the ZT & 75, it seems like some of the people on there know more about these cars than Rover themselves did. Most issues with cars won't be unique to your car, they'll have happened to identical cars therefore a search on an owners club forum can often explain that strange symptom of XYZ and the best way to go about fixing.
- YouTube, watch a video on how to do something before you do it, as has been said an oil change is pretty much the same on any car, it's just the locations of filter housing, oil cap, dipstick and sump plug that can vary slightly between vehicles.
- Get on with it. You'll only learn your car by getting hands on with it, all of the above helps diagnose problems, find the correct replacement parts and what the repair procedure is, but without actually getting your hands dirty you'll never learn why you have to use your left hand as opposed to right hand because of how awkward it is to reach something. A fair chunk of it is muscle memory.
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