Total tool Confusion... who STILL makes quality?
Discussion
Danjwilko said:
Just gonna stick my 2p worth in.
I served 5 years as a mechanic in the army most of the stuff there was draper expert and elora mixed most of it was well used and abused daily not any complaints there.
I still have a 19mm draper not expert mind and it's a beast, I've owned Bergen sockets and torx bits hands down better than the halfords pro/advanced feel more like the draper tools.
However I have used a twin set of halfords advanced and halfords pro ratchet spanners solid for 11 hours a day 5-6 days a week for the past 3 years and they haven't skipped a beat get some hydraulic oil and clean them out and they are as good as new.
I lost a 13mm for a week or so and brought a bluepoint replacement what a expensive load of cheese that is the open end flexes more than my halfords pro (being slightly thinner than the advanced), although the ratchet/angle are a nice touch. Bluepoint made my modern day snapon not worth touching if they were the same price as halfords I'd still buy halfords.
My uncle who owns his own garage and has been in the business 40+ years has all the old I mean old snap on gear his stuff is solid the new stuff is like chocolate in comparison, he brought a new set of 6 sockets recently and they had expanded after a few days of use so returned them and brought some draper ones to replace them said they felt more like the old snap on ones.
Elora still awesome spanners used a few my old draper is the same style. Draper tools not the expert range.
Teng seem fairly solid step up definitely from the halfords.
Bahco adjustables nothing else compares to them, they're mini socket 1/4 drive are very dependable.
Facom not used many but spanners are solid and the open end doesn't budge.
Wera spanners not to bad the nut holder is a bit gimicky but they feel similar to the teng.
Halfords Advanced slightly wider spanners but more chunky and handle more abuse than the pro range, pro range is more refined but hard to come by. All made by signet also make Gearwrench.
Gearwrench identical to the halfords Advanced range.
Wera screwdrivers are the dogs nuts can't fault them.
Anything pliers snips grips etc go knipex.
Having said all that my go to spanners/sockets/impact sockets etc are all halfords used daily not to expensive especially if damaged/lost but if ratchet fails or torx bit sheers all covered by a decent warranty. Replacement tool there and then most of the time rather that than have to wait for a rep to come in and you have a halfords in just about every town.
My next set would be a facom set of ratchet spanners for personal use if I fancy a upgrade and same lifetime warranty wouldn't grumble with them hehe.
All above is based on my own and fellow colleagues workshop experience. Plus my Uncles old snap-on/bluepoint Collection vs new snap-on/bluepoint experience.
hi mate, I served 5 years as a mechanic in the army most of the stuff there was draper expert and elora mixed most of it was well used and abused daily not any complaints there.
I still have a 19mm draper not expert mind and it's a beast, I've owned Bergen sockets and torx bits hands down better than the halfords pro/advanced feel more like the draper tools.
However I have used a twin set of halfords advanced and halfords pro ratchet spanners solid for 11 hours a day 5-6 days a week for the past 3 years and they haven't skipped a beat get some hydraulic oil and clean them out and they are as good as new.
I lost a 13mm for a week or so and brought a bluepoint replacement what a expensive load of cheese that is the open end flexes more than my halfords pro (being slightly thinner than the advanced), although the ratchet/angle are a nice touch. Bluepoint made my modern day snapon not worth touching if they were the same price as halfords I'd still buy halfords.
My uncle who owns his own garage and has been in the business 40+ years has all the old I mean old snap on gear his stuff is solid the new stuff is like chocolate in comparison, he brought a new set of 6 sockets recently and they had expanded after a few days of use so returned them and brought some draper ones to replace them said they felt more like the old snap on ones.
Elora still awesome spanners used a few my old draper is the same style. Draper tools not the expert range.
Teng seem fairly solid step up definitely from the halfords.
Bahco adjustables nothing else compares to them, they're mini socket 1/4 drive are very dependable.
Facom not used many but spanners are solid and the open end doesn't budge.
Wera spanners not to bad the nut holder is a bit gimicky but they feel similar to the teng.
Halfords Advanced slightly wider spanners but more chunky and handle more abuse than the pro range, pro range is more refined but hard to come by. All made by signet also make Gearwrench.
Gearwrench identical to the halfords Advanced range.
Wera screwdrivers are the dogs nuts can't fault them.
Anything pliers snips grips etc go knipex.
Having said all that my go to spanners/sockets/impact sockets etc are all halfords used daily not to expensive especially if damaged/lost but if ratchet fails or torx bit sheers all covered by a decent warranty. Replacement tool there and then most of the time rather that than have to wait for a rep to come in and you have a halfords in just about every town.
My next set would be a facom set of ratchet spanners for personal use if I fancy a upgrade and same lifetime warranty wouldn't grumble with them hehe.
All above is based on my own and fellow colleagues workshop experience. Plus my Uncles old snap-on/bluepoint Collection vs new snap-on/bluepoint experience.
been having a read through this and wondered if you could answer me about Bergen - is the following link likely to be poor quality stuff compared to the Bergen gear you was on about? i dont know if they have changed hands as a company or whatever but appears to be really cheap...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BERGEN-Tools-42pc-1-4dr...
im in the market for a decent socket set without breaking the bank for home tinkering etc, looking at the draper expert range, some older japanese made kamasa sets and had a look through this thread to see what else people are recommending.
It has been said over & over in many different threads on here by many different people but here goes I will say it again.
For the home tinkerer you can't really beat Halfrauds Pro in a good sized kit, there is a LOT of tool for the money & the service should you need it is normally excellent.
For the home tinkerer you can't really beat Halfrauds Pro in a good sized kit, there is a LOT of tool for the money & the service should you need it is normally excellent.
A Google search will reveal a lot.
British Tool and Engineering Co. Ltd. (Britool Limited) first started production in 1908 and was incorporated in Wolverhampton in 1915 and, by 1920, had a large factory in Owen Road. Prior to 1937, it was a subsidiary of Jenks Bros. but, in 1937, Jenks Bros and British Tool Co Ltd were taken over by John Shaw and Sons (Wolverhampton) Ltd. and moved to a factory in Bushbury.
After pioneering the first full range of bi-hexagon ring and socket wrenches to be produced and marketed in England, the company rapidly gained a reputation for the manufacture of high quality engineers’ hand tools. Although they specialised in wrenches, they made all types of small hand tools.
Demand for Britool’s products grew between the 2 World Wars; indeed, Britool was the principal supplier of tools to the British armed forces, during the Second World War, supplying over 200 million wrenches, sockets and accessories. Following the war, Britool became the number one tightening tool brand in the UK and it has remained the number one choice of professional engineers ever since.
In 1967, Britool was referred to as the “manufacturing subsidiary of John Shaw and Sons (Wolverhampton) Ltd.” In 1969, it was taken over by James Neill and became a member of the James Neill Group of Companies. James Neill was a tool making conglomerate, based in Sheffield, which included not only Britool but Eclipse, M & W, P S Stubbs and Elliott Lucas. Neill’s claimed to be one of the major tool manufacturing organisations in the world.
In 1980, the company moved to its Walsall Road, Cannock factory where it made a vast range of hand tools. It was decided to introduce a new range of hand tools specifically designed by Britool’s top engineers for the professional automotive aftermarket.
A great deal of thought and planning went into this new range. Given that all precious metals carry a hallmark, the decision was made to commission a hallmark that would be stamped into the chrome of each tool to assure the quality to the customer. This new range of products was sold via a network of franchised tool dealers.
In 1991, Britool was bought by the International group Facom, Europe’s largest hand tool manufacturer. With the backing of Facom’s strong developmental facilities and vast technical expertise, Britool was able to keep its position as the brand of choice for all areas of engineering; from aerospace to industry and also into the automotive sector.
In 2001, Britool Ltd changed its name to Hallmark Tools Limited and a new company was formed called Facom Group. This company was selling its satin finished products to the industrial sector and the Hallmark range continued to be sold into the professional automotive aftermarket.
In April of that year, the original Britool company, now renamed Hallmark Tools, was sold to TradeMarque Tools Ltd who retained ownership of the Hallmark range. The franchise was dissolved and the range has been sold by mobile independent dealers and selected ecommerce sellers ever since.
We have continued to invest and develop the range whilst retaining the original DNA of its heritage by investing and providing top quality products at reasonable prices.
The highly thought of Hallmark range can always be identified by its hallmark
What's the difference between Britool Hallmark & Britool Expert?
These two ranges are not the same. The Britool Hallmark range is exclusively owned and distributed by TradeMarque Tools Ltd and The Expert range is owned by Stanley Black & Decker Ltd.
Recently Stanley Black & Decker have rebranded the Expert range to Expert by Facom and this range is mainly sold into the industrial sector.
The Hallmark range is mainly sold in Automotive market sector.
More
In 1980, Mac Tools was bought by the Stanley Works, and is now part of a group of brands including Stanley Tools, Proto, FACOM, and Blackhawk a subsidiary of Proto Tools.
Lots more here :-
https://pressurewashr.com/tool-industry-behemoths/
British Tool and Engineering Co. Ltd. (Britool Limited) first started production in 1908 and was incorporated in Wolverhampton in 1915 and, by 1920, had a large factory in Owen Road. Prior to 1937, it was a subsidiary of Jenks Bros. but, in 1937, Jenks Bros and British Tool Co Ltd were taken over by John Shaw and Sons (Wolverhampton) Ltd. and moved to a factory in Bushbury.
After pioneering the first full range of bi-hexagon ring and socket wrenches to be produced and marketed in England, the company rapidly gained a reputation for the manufacture of high quality engineers’ hand tools. Although they specialised in wrenches, they made all types of small hand tools.
Demand for Britool’s products grew between the 2 World Wars; indeed, Britool was the principal supplier of tools to the British armed forces, during the Second World War, supplying over 200 million wrenches, sockets and accessories. Following the war, Britool became the number one tightening tool brand in the UK and it has remained the number one choice of professional engineers ever since.
In 1967, Britool was referred to as the “manufacturing subsidiary of John Shaw and Sons (Wolverhampton) Ltd.” In 1969, it was taken over by James Neill and became a member of the James Neill Group of Companies. James Neill was a tool making conglomerate, based in Sheffield, which included not only Britool but Eclipse, M & W, P S Stubbs and Elliott Lucas. Neill’s claimed to be one of the major tool manufacturing organisations in the world.
In 1980, the company moved to its Walsall Road, Cannock factory where it made a vast range of hand tools. It was decided to introduce a new range of hand tools specifically designed by Britool’s top engineers for the professional automotive aftermarket.
A great deal of thought and planning went into this new range. Given that all precious metals carry a hallmark, the decision was made to commission a hallmark that would be stamped into the chrome of each tool to assure the quality to the customer. This new range of products was sold via a network of franchised tool dealers.
In 1991, Britool was bought by the International group Facom, Europe’s largest hand tool manufacturer. With the backing of Facom’s strong developmental facilities and vast technical expertise, Britool was able to keep its position as the brand of choice for all areas of engineering; from aerospace to industry and also into the automotive sector.
In 2001, Britool Ltd changed its name to Hallmark Tools Limited and a new company was formed called Facom Group. This company was selling its satin finished products to the industrial sector and the Hallmark range continued to be sold into the professional automotive aftermarket.
In April of that year, the original Britool company, now renamed Hallmark Tools, was sold to TradeMarque Tools Ltd who retained ownership of the Hallmark range. The franchise was dissolved and the range has been sold by mobile independent dealers and selected ecommerce sellers ever since.
We have continued to invest and develop the range whilst retaining the original DNA of its heritage by investing and providing top quality products at reasonable prices.
The highly thought of Hallmark range can always be identified by its hallmark
What's the difference between Britool Hallmark & Britool Expert?
These two ranges are not the same. The Britool Hallmark range is exclusively owned and distributed by TradeMarque Tools Ltd and The Expert range is owned by Stanley Black & Decker Ltd.
Recently Stanley Black & Decker have rebranded the Expert range to Expert by Facom and this range is mainly sold into the industrial sector.
The Hallmark range is mainly sold in Automotive market sector.
More
In 1980, Mac Tools was bought by the Stanley Works, and is now part of a group of brands including Stanley Tools, Proto, FACOM, and Blackhawk a subsidiary of Proto Tools.
Lots more here :-
https://pressurewashr.com/tool-industry-behemoths/
Hi guys i live in UK 🇬🇧 just trying to buy some basic tool set for small simple jobs. I’ve seen many similar sets but no clue with one is better can you please take a quick look and give me some advice ? Thanks in advance
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bahco-S103-103-Piece-1-...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Proxxon-Steckschlussel-...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FXWKKC8/ref...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CEIJ5NI/ref...
https://www.tools4pro.pl/pl/p/OFERTA-SPECJALNA-ZES...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gedore-Red-1-4-3-8-1-2-...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Teng-Tools-127-...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bahco-S103-103-Piece-1-...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Proxxon-Steckschlussel-...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FXWKKC8/ref...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CEIJ5NI/ref...
https://www.tools4pro.pl/pl/p/OFERTA-SPECJALNA-ZES...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gedore-Red-1-4-3-8-1-2-...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Teng-Tools-127-...
JohnyGS88 said:
Hi guys i live in UK ???? just trying to buy some basic tool set for small simple jobs. I’ve seen many similar sets but no clue with one is better can you please take a quick look and give me some advice ? Thanks in advance
First rule is don't buy sets, next rule SINGLE HEX sockets (particularly with cheaper sets and older cars)Personally for VFM I don't think you can beat Bergan / US Pro
Ebay - £12 deep socket set, £13 shallow set, quick release ratchet £10
V8RX7 said:
First rule is don't buy sets, next rule SINGLE HEX sockets (particularly with cheaper sets and older cars)
Personally for VFM I don't think you can beat Bergan / US Pro
Ebay - £12 deep socket set, £13 shallow set, quick release ratchet £10
Single hex definitely for any fastners that are old crusty.Personally for VFM I don't think you can beat Bergan / US Pro
Ebay - £12 deep socket set, £13 shallow set, quick release ratchet £10
A set of irwin bolt extractors are useful to have too.
ac427 said:
How do King Dick compare to the other manufacturers?
I didn't Kind Dick on the chart of tool behemoths.
Which Britool range had the chrome hallmark on it ?
I've got a new hobby, going to house clearance sales and picking up old tools. It's highly addictive. Last time got a load of king dick stuff, adjustable spanners, extensions, Bedford, Gordon, old britool sockets. 60s 70s 80s at a guess nothing newer. All proper British made in Sheffield. Absolutely loads of Old Japan made Kamasa for peanuts. Astonishing when you consider how much these items would have been new. Boxes and boxes of record stilsons for sale . Far more satisfying than new stuff, and almost always better. I didn't Kind Dick on the chart of tool behemoths.
Which Britool range had the chrome hallmark on it ?
I’ve got a few snap on tools. Expensive but great.
Here is a german report on spanner quality...it’s in german though...but plenty of numbers and pictures! Snap on does great by the way.
https://www.wiesemann.eu//_UPLOAD/files/Oldtimerma...
Here is a german report on spanner quality...it’s in german though...but plenty of numbers and pictures! Snap on does great by the way.
https://www.wiesemann.eu//_UPLOAD/files/Oldtimerma...
Edited by Kawasicki on Tuesday 3rd December 22:47
Pothole said:
Turn7 said:
Pro use, I would always say Snp on, I love the quality, shape and feel of the basic handtools and toolboxies
Quality aint cheap, but if its youre lliving, its a different matter.
I still use all my Snap on gear I bought 38 years ago.....
See thread titleQuality aint cheap, but if its youre lliving, its a different matter.
I still use all my Snap on gear I bought 38 years ago.....
Kawasicki said:
I’ve got a few snap on tools. Expensive but great.
Here is a german report on spanner quality...it’s in german though...but plenty of numbers and pictures! Snap on does great by the way.
https://www.wiesemann.eu//_UPLOAD/files/Oldtimerma...
The gist of that article is, that all wrenches (13mm tested) exceed the minimum torque as per standard by at least factor two; even the one that cost €1.Here is a german report on spanner quality...it’s in german though...but plenty of numbers and pictures! Snap on does great by the way.
https://www.wiesemann.eu//_UPLOAD/files/Oldtimerma...
Edited by Kawasicki on Tuesday 3rd December 22:47
They couldn't test the highest torque for ten wrenches, because the test equipment had a maximum capacity of 250Nm, so they stopped at 240Nm. Max torque for the strongest M8 bolts usually turned with 13mm-wrenches is 43Nm.
That makes the choice easier - you would then only concentrate on look&feel, dimensions or other criteria like if the style matches your other tools
Bodo said:
The gist of that article is, that all wrenches (13mm tested) exceed the minimum torque as per standard by at least factor two; even the one that cost €1.
They couldn't test the highest torque for ten wrenches, because the test equipment had a maximum capacity of 250Nm, so they stopped at 240Nm. Max torque for the strongest M8 bolts usually turned with 13mm-wrenches is 43Nm.
That makes the choice easier - you would then only concentrate on look&feel, dimensions or other criteria like if the style matches your other tools
Tightening a bolt is one thing, loosening another. They couldn't test the highest torque for ten wrenches, because the test equipment had a maximum capacity of 250Nm, so they stopped at 240Nm. Max torque for the strongest M8 bolts usually turned with 13mm-wrenches is 43Nm.
That makes the choice easier - you would then only concentrate on look&feel, dimensions or other criteria like if the style matches your other tools
But, in general I agree with you. Under dimensions I would also state that the sizing of the working parts is critical.
Kawasicki said:
Back in the day (1990’s) I worked in commercial aircraft maintenance. 1000 technicians/mechanics all using company issued Stahlwille tool kits daily. Never experienced any problems.
Same here used them for years, excellent quality used all day every day especially their ratchets 1/4 and 1/2 drive. Not that popular in the UK for some reason.
borcy said:
Same here used them for years, excellent quality used all day every day especially their ratchets 1/4 and 1/2 drive.
Not that popular in the UK for some reason.
Stahlwille is more popular in machinery than in crafts/trade. I have a torque wrench and some socket sets and spanners from them; finish is nice, and they are indestructible. I think they only manufacture forged products themselves, the rest of the range is just branded/distributed average stuff https://www.stahlwille.de/en/products/ - just like any other that offers the full range of tools.Not that popular in the UK for some reason.
Gassing Station | Home Mechanics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff