mot failure! but has it!? Advise please!!

[robbieesprit]

OK guys here the up date, thanks loads for all your comments and experiences....all noted...

The Drop link actually does have two rubber boots, the drop link is a vertical bar which connects to the antiroll bar and onto the strut.

Right, bearing in mind I had already undertaken two inspections one on Thursday evening...then after a sleep on it again on Friday morning, after both inspections I could not find any cuts or degrading of the rubber which forms the boots.

The failure description reads "anti-roll bar linkage ball joint dust cover excessively damaged so that it no longer prevents the ingress of dirt offside front"

So I run the car back to the station. The tester (not the one that failed it) calls me in to where the car is up on the ramps and points to the top boot (with the wheels turned in) "thats why the tester failed it, there a hole". At first glance I couldn't see it, then I got closer and the where the smaller hole of the boot seals around the threaded pin, the lip of this seal was deformed by 2mm to 3mm at most, there wasn't a perfect seal, there was a tiny hole...

I was dumbfounded, I just stared at it shaking my head...silent...I waited for the tester to break the silence..."of course its a bit of a grey area" he said "...I might have passed it..." That said it all to me. The tester looked a bit uncomfortable in the situation, to me he was an honest man, I think he knew it should have been classed as an advisory...worst case.

So I then spent 2 stressful hours trying to remove the original drop link, which came off thanks to my angle grinder (last resort), and spent 10mins fitting the new one. I got back to the garage at 11:45 just before Saturday closing and they passed the car. stressed, tired and with bleeding knuckles I returned home triumphant only to be shot down by my wife as we were late for lunch with friends...."how about a thank you for getting your car through an mot?...."

looking back on the whole turn of events, the whole problem was that as soon as it failed that it, it is classed as unroad worthy and my wife needed to run the kids about. So I had to do what I could to get a ticket on Saturday. I could have appealed, but then I thought perhaps the government inspectors would be even less tolerant to the condition of the boot? Or perhaps in life some of these grey areas discisions go your way, and this case it doesn't...

will we go back? no way!!

[Krikkit]

Sounds like it was a genuine fail, even if you might have got the benefit of doubt from another tester, any hole in a dust cover will let the joint get dirty.

I always grind ball joint drop links off these days - by the time they're tired they're usually a bh to remove, 2 minutes with a grinder or even a hacksaw saves a lot of pain.

[robbieesprit]

ahhh tell me about it, just wish I went straight for the grinder, takes some steady hands though, new one has a hex in the thread so half a chance of getting off next time...

[brman]

robbieesprit said:

the whole problem was that as soon as it failed that it, it is classed as unroad worthy

This is the bit I don't understand. How does a damaged boot make it unroadworthy? Potential to wear and then fail yes. So I can see the MOT fail, but I can't see why it would be classed as unroadworthy.

Is this some sort of automatic MOT fault classification or are we confusing a failed MOT with the car being unroadworthy?

[robbieesprit]

as soon as its logged as a fail, its classed as unroad worthy, of course you could have completed the repair but until reinspected its classed as unroad worthy, as the boot is not doing it job, it was classed as a fail. yes to me the car is safe but on paper it is not....

[russell_ram]

robbieesprit said:

as soon as its logged as a fail, its classed as unroad worthy, ..

No, it isn't (necessarily, and most definitely not in this case).

See note 1 on MOT image on last page, you can continue to use it until the old MOT runs out.

[robbieesprit]

I see what you are saying...which contradicts what the garage told me over the phone, i.e. I could only use it to and from the testing station and car logged as failed on the computer system so police would pull us over... but yes note 1 suggests repair needs to be carried out asap and retest before existing validity expires...
to be honest we had two advisorys being the front tyres which I was more concerned about....

[robbieesprit]

I see what you are saying...which contradicts what the garage told me over the phone, i.e. I could only use it to and from the testing station and car logged as failed on the computer system so police would pull us over... but yes note 1 suggests repair needs to be carried out asap and retest before existing validity expires...
to be honest we had two advisorys being the front tyres which I was more concerned about....

[russell_ram]

Not just hoping you'd say 'Please can you fix it' were they . . . . . . .

robbieesprit said:

to be honest we had two advisorys being the front tyres which I was more concerned about....

Why? Do you not check them yourself? They more than met the required standard for the test - in every way completely acceptable - even for the tester that had already given you a fail for something that at worst should probably have been an advise. Depending on the reason (ie tread depth) and usage they could be good for weeks, months or even years yet?

Edited by russell_ram on Monday 4th April 12:14

[Kinky]

eltax91 said:

https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test

This is 1 thing thats always puzzled me, the link above says (and guidance always has been):

Link above said:

your vehicle still needs to meet the minimum standards of roadworthiness at all times or you can be fined.

I always thought the MOT was exactly this, therefore if failing the MOT also meant that the criteria for minimum road worthiness was not met.

[Old Merc]

I think we should start a whole new topic titled "What is an MOT".
Is it a safety inspection,a legality inspection,a construction and use inspection,etc etc??
I still maintain the "rules" are confusing,the link above contradicts itself when advising about driving a failure.
This morning I took a car to my testing station and it failed on all sorts.I returned it to my customer and told him to scrap it.This car has a current MOT that expires at the end of the month,so is it legal or illegal to drive it?
Whatever the argument I was very nervous driving that car on the road.

[brman]

Old Merc said:

I think we should start a whole new topic titled "What is an MOT".
Is it a safety inspection,a legality inspection,a construction and use inspection,etc etc??
I still maintain the "rules" are confusing,the link above contradicts itself when advising about driving a failure.
This morning I took a car to my testing station and it failed on all sorts.I returned it to my customer and told him to scrap it.This car has a current MOT that expires at the end of the month,so is it legal or illegal to drive it?
Whatever the argument I was very nervous driving that car on the road.

I could have the wrong end of the stick but I don't think it is confusing at all. The way I see it an MOT is not a statement of whether it is roadworthy or not. Some things (such as boots and gaiters) are failures because they can lead to it being unroadworthy, but they do not make it unroadworthy in themselves.

Now if it is unroadworthy then it was illegal to drive it to the test station in the first place, let alone back from it! That is just a basic law, all cars on a public road must be roadworthy, saying you are taking to to a test station doesn't help, it was still your responsibility to check it was safe BEFORE driving it on a road.

So that note on the MOT cert is right, you can drive it after an MOT failure, but ONLY if it is still roadworthy.

[PositronicRay]

Kinky said:

eltax91 said:

https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test

This is 1 thing thats always puzzled me, the link above says (and guidance always has been):

Link above said:

your vehicle still needs to meet the minimum standards of roadworthiness at all times or you can be fined.

I always thought the MOT was exactly this, therefore if failing the MOT also meant that the criteria for minimum road worthiness was not met.

Failing an MOT does not always make a vehicle un-road worthy. In the OP's case a split rubber boot will lead to the premature failure of a balljoint, the car's not un-road worthy until the ball joint has failed.

[russell_ram]

PositronicRay said:

Failing an MOT does not always make a vehicle un-road worthy.

Being slightly pedantic - failing an MOT doesn't ever make a vehicle un-road worthy. It is either un-road worthy or it isn't. The fact that someone looked at it on a ramp didn't suddenly make it un-road worthy (it was or wasn't already) LOL.

[robbieesprit]

well in terms of the tyres, yes I did check them pre mot, so yes I was aware that they were 2mm above the markers, so it was no surprise to see them as advisories, knowing the use of the car, I could see the tyres wearing out before the ball joint due to the small size of the hole in the boots.

like I said to my wife I think the whole system is there to pander to the fears of working professionals who "need" their cars and have little time to deal with their car themselves, faced with a decision of do you want your car to have an MOT for Monday for the cost of £90 or not? then most people will say please do it, and while you are at it stick on two new front tyres...here my card

whilst my thought process is a little different, only replace that which actually needs to the replaced, so yes ill keep checking the tyres, and when they are down to the safe miniumum they will be replaced.

[Athlon]

If I tick the dangerous box when I am inputting the data onto the scheme then in my opinion it is un roadworthy otherwise it is safe in my opinion. I can't see a de laminated number plate making a vehicle unsafe for instance.

[Mr2Mike]

Old Merc said:

Thank you marshalla for your "forensic examination" of the details,but its still confusing and full of holes.
Remember I regularly take cars for testing and I`m going by what the MOT examiner tells me.
When the car fails its logged on the computer so a police NPR will flag it up as having failed the test.They will not be interested in the certificate that says it runs out next week.They will pull you over,check it out,if its unroad worthy you're nicked.

You are quite incorrect, failing the MOT does not invalidate the original certificate if it has time remaining. Obviously you can be pulled for driving an unroadworthy vehicle on the road, but that has always been the case, MOT or no MOT.