Stuck solid ball joint?

[Jimmy No Hands]

I'm changing the lower control arms on my E46 and I've stumbled upon the worlds most stubborn ball joint. I am not exaggerating when I say I have;

Spent two days striking the bd thing with a 2.5 lb hammer.
Full (large) can of WD40
Clouting a pickle fork from various angles
Two types of ball joint seperator (cup and scissor) it actually broke the scissor seperator and slightly bent the balljoint pin.
Ridiculous amounts of leverage and a bar

And it still will not budge.


Any tips? I could bolt it back together and try drive it to a man with better facilities but the pin is slightly bent now, not sure it'd be a pleasant experience.

It's ironic isn't it, I only set out to try save myself a few quid

[finlo]

Heat is you friend.

[HustleRussell]

Combination of scissor AND big hammer at the same time worked for me

[Jimmy No Hands]

finlo said:

Heat is you friend.

Can I just use a cheapy chefs blow torch? I don't have access to any oxyacetylene or anything. It was going to be my next move really.

[Jimmy No Hands]

HustleRussell said:

Combination of scissor AND big hammer at the same time worked for me

Hard to get access with the hammer once the scissor is in place, plus with the pin bending I'm reluctant to put anymore load on it that way now. It is well and truly welded, never seen anything like it.

[DrDeAtH]

WD40 is of no use to you
PlusGas is..

Strike BOTH sides of the casting with 2 hammers simultaneously. This will shock the ball joint free. Don't be shy and give it a few well timed heavy blows.

Ensure that the nut is off and everything is supported where needed.

Report back when you have won the day.

[Jimmy No Hands]

DrDeAtH said:

WD40 is of no use to you
PlusGas is..

Strike BOTH sides of the casting with 2 hammers simultaneously. This will shock the ball joint free. Don't be shy and give it a few well timed heavy blows.

Ensure that the nut is off and everything is supported where needed.

Report back when you have won the day.

Have tried this several times with the access I have (on stands) and no dice. I can't underestimate how much I've hit it, with one or two large hammers from various angles. At forces where If I miss I'm probably going to either go through my knee or the bodywork.

[tumble dryer]

Jimmy No Hands said:

Hard to get access with the hammer once the scissor is in place, plus with the pin bending I'm reluctant to put anymore load on it that way now. It is well and truly welded, never seen anything like it.

I'm going back a bit. In days of yore, if you could strike (i.e. shock) the ball with a double sided hammer blow - one hammer belt from each side at the same time, you invariably saved three damaged knuckles and countless hours for the buggar, if you got your timing right, to just plop off.

Ooops, just read above. Sorry.

[Jimmy No Hands]

This is now a war, it can't beat me.

All this to save £60 and I've spent £32 on tools and two nights.

[kambites]

Heat is definitely your friend.

If you think one ball-joint is fun, I'm currently in the process of doing all ten, along with the drop-links, track rods and bushes on my Elise. My knuckles are currently more half-formed scab than skin.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st April 22:38

[Jimmy No Hands]

kambites said:

Heat is definitely your friend.

If you think one ball-joint is fun, I'm currently in the process of doing all ten, along with the drop-links, track rods and bushes on my Elise. My knuckles are currently more half-formed scab than skin.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st April 22:38

I haven't even started the other side. I'm in two minds now, tighten it up as best as possible and just pay a bloke and admit defeat. Or grab a torch on the way home tomorrow and give it hell.

Edit: Genuinely though, I've done a fair few and never encountered one as stubborn as this. It's destroying my soul.

[freddytin]

As said HEAT is the answer....Personally I'd nip down the local plumbers merchant and buy a bottle of M.A.P.P Gas with a suitable nozzle.

It burns quite a bit hotter than the standard butane lamps and is welcome addition to any tool kit...I've even tackled a few plumbing jobs with it too

Edited by freddytin on Thursday 21st April 22:58

Where in West Yorkshire are you ? Maybe a smug Lancastrian can help you out

Edited by freddytin on Thursday 21st April 23:07

[geeks]

I had this issue on my E36, in the end I took the hub plus lower arm off and then went to town on it with a lump hammer and a pickle fork, eventually they separated! I had tried everything from ball joint splitters to heat but in the end it was a case of getting everything off and giving it a decent whack without any other movement.

[battered]

As others say. Heat. Cool with water. Heat again. Get it really hot. Then the socket and screw type splitter. Load it up and then leather it. Repeat until one of you dies. Then finish the job and go to the pub to tell everyone who will listen and a few who won't what a total hero you are.

[tumble dryer]

geeks said:

I had this issue on my E36, in the end I took the hub plus lower arm off and then went to town on it with a lump hammer and a pickle fork, eventually they separated! I had tried everything from ball joint splitters to heat but in the end it was a case of getting everything off and giving it a decent whack without any other movement.

Yes, I think that's the important part. Your energy has to go to the point intended, cleanly, IYKWIM.

Just one more try....

[tumble dryer]

battered said:

As others say. Heat. Cool with water. Heat again. Get it really hot. Then the socket and screw type splitter. Load it up and then leather it. Repeat until one of you dies. Then finish the job and go to the pub to tell everyone who will listen and a few who won't what a total hero you are.

You wouldn't have been there, by any chance...?

[Jimmyarm]

Be VERY CAREFUL heating up ball joints, they can explode.

[Jimmy No Hands]

freddytin said:

As said HEAT is the answer....Personally I'd nip down the local plumbers merchant and buy a bottle of M.A.P.P Gas with a suitable nozzle.

It burns quite a bit hotter than the standard butane lamps and is welcome addition to any tool kit...I've even tackled a few plumbing jobs with it too

Edited by freddytin on Thursday 21st April 22:58

Where in West Yorkshire are you ? Maybe a smug Lancastrian can help you out

Edited by freddytin on Thursday 21st April 23:07

I'm in Heckmondwike Freddy, wouldn't want you trailing all that way!


My MOT looms for Tuesday so another evening of banging lies ahead. (Sounds rather exciting out of context)
I fear as a few of you have mentioned that I'm wasting a lot of the energy involved by the strut taking most of the force, so I'm going to attempt the two hammer method again with the fork wedged in. Failing that I'm torching it. I'll either die or it'll die.

Everyone is invited to a lower control arm ball joint party when this is over. I'll report back.

[Megaflow]

Jimmyarm said:

Be VERY CAREFUL heating up ball joints, they can explode.

It's not the ball joint that needs heating, its the lower arm that needs heating to free it off the ball joint.

OP, you need to soak it in a proper penetrating fluid like Plus Gas, WD40 is not a penetrating fluid. Then you need some proper heat, not DIY blow torch heat, you need to be able to see it glow slightly/a lot depending how stuck it is.

A DIY blow lamp will never achieve that, you need a proper plumbers soldering torch or a gas torch.

[Jimmy No Hands]

Megaflow said:

It's not the ball joint that needs heating, its the lower arm that needs heating to free it off the ball joint.

OP, you need to soak it in a proper penetrating fluid like Plus Gas, WD40 is not a penetrating fluid. Then you need some proper heat, not DIY blow torch heat, you need to be able to see it glow slightly/a lot depending how stuck it is.

A DIY blow lamp will never achieve that, you need a proper plumbers soldering torch or a gas torch.

So a £15 Crème brûlée special isn't going to work? Bugger.



Yep PlusGas seems to be stocked at my local ECP for a fiver a tin so I'll try order some today.